hipsterinspace

On 3/17/2024 at 9:07 AM, Super Thunder Bros. said:

Players will start as young Lay members of their cults as well as lay members of Ernalda as she is a central figure in this clan. First sessions will be adulthood initiations, cult initiations will be played out further down the line.

What I’m wondering is what to do about skills. SSIS suggests characters should start as lay members of Ernalda/Orlanth thus gaining those passions and cult skills? (Do Lay members start with cult skills?) Then going on to initiate into the clan Wyter and community through the adulthood ritual.

Most adulthood initiations happen in the initiand's early teens, and as mentioned previously, the rites are conducted based on what bits they were born with. It's a rite of passage that generally coincides with the beginning of puberty, so the Ernaldan adulthood initiation happens at menarche while the Orlanthi adulthood initiation happens in cohorts every few years. It is about becoming a member of the clan and tribe, understanding what it means to have the responsibilities of kinship and community, and experiencing through the gods what one's role in that community is going to be. After, they become lay members in the cult they intend to initiate into to and begin an apprenticeship period of two or so years where the initiand learns what it means to be a full member of their cult. They are taught the specifics of their social/vocational roles and the mysteries of their cult, at the end of which they sacrifice their characteristic POW to formally initiate into the cult. It seems rather straightforward to assume that the cult skills represent that two year apprenticeship period.

On 3/17/2024 at 8:06 PM, radmonger said:

Traditionalist Sartarite clans, including the Haraborn, divide the teenagers by apparent biological sex and have them undergo either the Orlanthi or Ernaldan adulthood ordeal correspondingly. However, the association between Orlanth and Ernalda allows effectively transferring between the cults before full adulthood; this corresponds to the Vingan and Nandan gender-based subcults.

Though I'd imagine most people would probably have some idea beforehand, during adulthood initiation the initiand is chosen by a god and experience that god. Pointedly, not all vingans are Vingans, not all nandani are Nandani, where they go depends on that direct personal experience of the divine rather than the particulars of their gender identity (also, Nandani are just regular Ernaldans in terms of cult). So, while the ordeal may begin as a gender-normative Orlanthi or Ernaldan ritual, their experience is wholly personal and can go in a much different direction.

People often forget the utility of common rune magic, especially Heal Wound, which means that even if you’re just part of the missionary cult—not one of the specialist individual Mother’s cults—there is still plenty of useful magic available to you. Add to that the Jakaleel shamans being able to teach an initiate just about any spirit magic (plus cultists of the associated Etyries can trade spirit magic spells), and the potential to transfer into more specialized cults down the line, it’s not a bad deal magically. Add to that the social benefits of conversion, especially in a place like occupied Sartar, and it’s understandable why some people took that bargain despite the hostility of their kinfolk.

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

And there's the various Grain/Land Goddesses, which are something like physical divisions of Gata. And at some point, Ernalda becomes one of those land goddesses as well ruling over Ernaldela (northwest of the Spike). And in that sense, Ernalda becomes one of the daughters of Gata (and sisters of Esrola) as well.

I think the primary intersection of Ernalda and Esrola as the six sisters is actually here. Rather than Ernalda, Esrola is the goddess and sister that represents the physical land of Ernaldela, she is immanent as the earth itself. Ernalda is of course still present in the land, but as the unifying power within all earth, what she seems to have inherited from Gata.

I think the important question to ask and answer is why this elf is adventuring with humans. As you say, Elves are often insular and mysterious, but to be among human adventurers, even if they are elf friends, probably requires some sort of a reason accepted by both parties, and from there you might be able to cobble together more of a history of how that cooperation came about.

In the Sourcebook (and elsewhere) it is stated that Humakt, alongside Uleria, was illuminated by Rashorana during the Great Darkness. They are pointed out as the only entities who listened to Rashorana and were strengthened by those teachings rather than being corrupted by chaos or surrendering to be annihilated by it. Every living being is born and every living being eventually dies, and during those occasions (even for chaos creatures) Uleria and Humakt are present, respectively.

Yelm is more difficult, but I think one of the biggest parts of his illumination is that presence of both Life and Death within him. He was able to reconcile his internal opposites, Humakt and Uleria, accepting his place in the world as a manifestation of the endless cycle of death and rebirth.

9 hours ago, David Scott said:

While a hero rising from these is not impossible, the cult is secret and no one knows anything about it. I'd look out for trolls who mysteriously join the cult of the Red Goddess.

There is a known Troll hero of the Blue Moon listed in the Prosopaedia, Bina Bang.

Veskarthan/Lodril’s son, Oakfed, actually has a pretty important spirit cult in Prax and elsewhere. He’s the great spirit of wildfires and would be known to many shamans. In Prax he’s a friend to Waha, but he also does his own thing, he is a wildfire after all. He appears in the RQG core book as an example of a spirit cult. Even though Lodril doesn’t have defined cult shamans, there’s nothing to stop a Horned Man shaman from joining the cult and connecting with Lodril both as the great spirit who lives in/is The Vent, and as a figure from the god time with deep secrets for heroes.

On 7/29/2023 at 9:24 AM, Gallowglass said:

I’ve been thoroughly enjoying Nochet: City of Queens, and I’m considering setting my next game there. I’m wondering if the upcoming Earth Goddesses book will have any info or rules for some of the goddesses referenced within? I’m particularly interested in three of the “Six Sisters,” Delaina, Delaeo, and Orana. Does anyone with an early copy know?

Personally, I would cast them as portions/aspects/names of Ernalda and worshipped through the wider Ernalda cult—the Prosopaedia implies as much.

Outside of wisdom, magic, and heroes, Delaina is also the patron goddess of the city of Rhigos. It wouldn’t be a surprise for her to be venerated as a city goddess there, with the current Queen of Rhigos, the Demivierge, as her high priestess.

I would imagine Delaeo receives veneration and offerings regularly by the nobility in Nochet, with Queen Samastina belonging to her namesake Great House.

They all seem to fit within the wider Ernalda complex, similar to Esrola, so I don’t see why they would be split off as separate cults when Ernalda worship is likely to have hundreds of local variants, names, and unique traditions in the land she lives in and calls home.

19 hours ago, metcalph said:

Balazar is depicted as a Golden Spearman.  This might be that the Cult of the Golden Spearman that the Elmali brought to Aldachur (WF #15 p41) was Balazar.

This is probably rooted in Balazar's god, Tharkantus, the version of Yelmalio that arose to oppose the EWF. Balazar brought Tharkantus/Yelmalio to the lands that would take on his name, and some version of Yelmalio continues to be venerated in the citadels into the Third Age. I believe Monrogh may have passed through Balazar in his journeys.

There are also literal and figurative magic roads between many places, some of which serve to shorten travel times pretty significantly. In a highly urbanized society like Fonrit, as awful a place as it is, there are likely to be those sorts of networks that were established to deal with effects of the closing, when the much more efficient overseas trade and travel became impossible.

This post deals with travel between Lowland Peloria, Dragon Pass, and Kethaela, but it probably wouldn’t be too hard to extrapolate for elsewhere with the Argan Argar Atlas’s hex map. As for ocean travel, this post has some useful guidelines.

Chalk Man, a fairly notable spirit, also has the luck rune. He is said to always know the odds of any contest, among other things.

53 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

The cynic in me says that these two are related: the elder races and the humans are all people (and all stand for humans) but the humans are the colonisers (or the Aryan Nation, or whatever) and the elder races are the colonised, the first nations, the aboriginals (more generally: the other). We dehumanise some humans, now they are just animals, and we all know that true humans are individuals and have cultures, whereas animals are types and have natures.

This kind of othering isn’t necessarily subtextual to the elder races as much as it’s fully textual to in-world beliefs about the Hykimi animists, especially in the case of their relationship with the Malkioni. The peoples of Danmalestan colonized lands that were once the territories of many different Hykimi groups, with conflicts like Akem breaking the Eleven Beasts Alliance punctuating much of their early history. In the wake of this, some of them assimilated with the Malkioni (or other non-Hykimi groups), like the Pendali of Seshnela, while others continued to fight back, like the Telmori, who would side with Nysalor in an attempt to take their revenge on Akem and their other foes.

53 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

So distinctions among the elder races cannot be due to culture and subculture, they must be due to pseudo-scientific subspecies (like trollkin) or castes (in the sense that social insects might have castes). Othering complete, cue cannibalism and genocide. It is all in fancy dress, and the “animals” are draped in religion, but this is the armature of the thing, right?

There’s actually a pretty wide cultural variance within different groups of the same elder race, even if they speak the same language and follow the same traditions. The Uz of Dagori Inkarth are culturally distinct from those of the Shadow Plateau, likely in part due to very the thing that seems to keep the elder races relatively united in purpose: the strength of their traditions of ancestral worship. Dagori Inkarth is more culturally “trollish” and suspicious of humans than the relatively more cosmopolitan trolls of the Shadow Plateau, likely because they’re ruled by Mistress Race trolls and, as such, more strongly Kyger Litor-aligned, while their Argan Argar cult lacks the same prestige as the one in the lands once ruled by his son. More broadly, the strength of Kyger Litor and Aldrya, the respective ancestral mother goddesses of the Uz and Aldryami peoples, seems to be the key part of understanding why they remain so much more unified (and distinct from humans) as cultures.

16 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Curious do the Telmori being in such proximity not skirmish frequently with Sazdorf trolls and trollkin or is there some sort of truce between them?

They have a rather hostile relationship. They are peoples with ancient grievances from the time when they were on the opposite sides of the Gbaji war, the Telmori remain tainted by chaos from their association with the one who inflicted the trollkin curse on the Uz mother goddess.

On 7/1/2023 at 4:39 PM, Hellhound Havoc said:

Honestly, I don't like the Aldryami a whole lot and I think that's colouring my perception of them. I just resent the perception that "nature and growing = trees and forest." You can see that too in Prax, as it's described as a grassland because the god who lived there died. It bothers me in part because one of the most important biomes where I live is a form of grassland / savannah similar to Prax, and it's hugely important for the ecosystem, so having the elfs just existing to yabber about cutting down trees but not having a similar people to yabber about animals eating grass- with the implication that the forest is somehow "more alive" than the grassland and chaparral - just makes me a bit angry at them.

As others have mentioned, Aldryami are specifically tree-people, not just plant or nature. Very closely tied into that is the fact that Prax actually used to be a gigantic forest of redwood trees before the dawn. During the darkness the forest was clear-cut and fed to Oakfed (likely along with it's Aldryami denizens) to keep the people from freezing to death, and the elves still really resent that.

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

Makes sense, but it seems that its a house rule for now. Is that correct?

Per this post from David Scott:

“A spirit society is a collection of spirit cults that are culturally shared. Your rune points go into a shared pool, but you still have to ally each spirit individually.”

It seems straightforward enough to me.

1 minute ago, Godlearner said:

And what if they are not? That would be 6 Worship skills.

My understanding is that if they are not a part of the spirit society it would be 6. If they are, it’s 1.

Often shamans will be part of one or more spirit societies, a collection of similar spirits worshipped together as a single group and sharing a single rune point pool. We have examples of a few Praxian spirit societies and their patron great spirits in David Scott’s Prax thread (page 8 for the most up to date version); the big ones are the Sky Gazers (Polestar), the Burners (Oakfed), Thirstless (Zola Fel), Shadow People (Dark Eater), and the Hidden Ancestor/Twin Stars (Twin Stars) Societies. Air spirits are part of an Orlanth Society, but my understanding is that that’s broadly just being a part of the Orlanth cult.

So, for example, most shamans of the Thirstless society are probably initiated into the spirit cult of Zola Fel, the patron spirit of their society, some might even be Horned Man shamans who are a part of the Zola Fel’s rune cult. They are likely to be initiated into the other Praxian water spirit cults: Frog Woman, River Horse, and Dew Maid. Some might also be initiated into more peripheral or situationally useful water-aligned spirits like Diros, Moonbroth, or Rainbow Girl.

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

We have not sorted out if they would continue with fighting against the Lunars in the invasion after that point or they flee south towards Esrola or the Heortland?

Esrolia seems like the most interesting locale at the time, it still has a lot of intrigues happening with Lunar-aligned assassins (possibly in service to House Norinel) going around and killing members of the House of Sartar. Nochet is the largest Heortling city in the world (double the Heortling population of Boldhome, approaching 10% of Nochet’s population). There’s definitely a lot that can be done in the lead up to the Lunar invasion in that culminates with Belintar’s victory at the building wall.

Since getting killed and brought back he’s become a Humakti, which means he isn’t much fun anymore, hence the change from Belly-Laugh to Ironbeard. At the time of the Red Cow campaign’s start, 1618, he’s a man in his early 60s and is said to be a quiet and brooding (but still well respected) thane of the clan. He’s terrified of dying in his bed, seeking find his death once again in the heat of battle.

7 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Can you become a priest of a cult that doesn't have shamanic priests? Personally I don't think so, but I'm aware that other opinions are available.

You can definitely be an Earth Witch and Ernalda Priestess, I’d imagine you can be a Kolating and a Storm Voice as well. Both of those would effectively be Horned Man shamans integrated within the cult’s hierarchy.

I believe apostates from the Seven Mothers “punishment” is just that they’re locked into cyclical magic no matter what cult they join afterwards.

There are still some restrictions on what cults someone can dual initiate into, adjudicated with the cult compatibility table. It’s not super common, but it’s not necessarily uncommon either.

29 minutes ago, Geoff R Evil said:

my central question remains - what actions are seen to potentially increase one’s honour?

My ruling would be from following the code when it becomes inconvenient, especially at significant personal cost, be it health, wealth, status, or progress towards the character’s goal. Upholding honor through hardship is the true test, and I’d say it demonstrates enough of commitment to warrant it.

21 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Not just the Esrolians - pretty much everyone within the Holy Country. There's a lot of entries on Wolf Pirates in the Heortland character background I put together. Coastal Heortland, God Forgot, the Rightarm Islands are all equally or more vulnerable than Esrolia. Even Caladraland given the presence of Gemborg is going to attract the Wolf Pirates.

Certainly true, though Esrolia is the sort of “chosen sixth” to represent the Holy Country of the core PC cultures, and I was really only thinking of the family histories in the core book.

I’d imagine the thing that typically creates trouble for the Esrolians isn’t as much Wolf Pirates launching probing raids like the Ditali and Solanthi, but the extortion and plundering of the innumerable trade ships heading between Nochet and much further afield.

Harrek and Argrath have a pretty close relationship, Argrath was actually part of Harrek’s crew when the Wolf Pirates circumnavigated the Homeward Ocean to fully end the Closing. There are some fairly obvious Achilles and Patroclus undertones to their relationship, read into that what you’d like, but however you slice it they are boon companions and through the metaplot fight a lot of battles alongside one another.

The PC culture that has the real problem with Harrek are going to be the Esrolians, who he and his Wolf Pirates have caused no end of trouble for. It’s very possible for Esrolian PCs to lose a parent to the Wolf Pirates when Harrek rolls in to destroy the Holy Country’s fleet. I’d suspect someone loyal to Queen Samastina would have a much, much bigger issue with being cozy with Harrek (to the extent that that’s even possible) than someone loyal to Argrath.