glarkhag

Love it.

Like Tarantino and his orange balloon. 

But  I can definitely see the subconscious having a hand in writing and other art, which is perhaps more apparent to other people who are more sensitive to such than the artist. Some people do have a gift with reading people (masters of Insight (human) with a decent augmentation from the man rune).

But it's curious that it was a balloon of the Air rune colour floating on the wind in the film. 🤔

1 minute ago, davecake said:

The likely previous owner is Annilla. But she is also probably the someone who knows, and she very rarely tells. 

Yes, agreed.

I had meant someone in the RW though,  unless it's being left deliberately "open" to allow us to find our own personal  Glorathan truth(s). 

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Real humans have personality traits such as favorite colors.  Real humans do not have runes.

Prove it. 😜

50 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The Sable Riders are descendants of the Twin Stars, two Southpath planets that orbit one another and create the impression of crescents as one eclipses the other.  Those of the Hungry Plateau recognized a Lunar connecition only when the Jannisor rebellion was about to storm the Red Moon across the Silver Bridge IIRC

IMG the Lunar Way covers the followers of the Red Moon rather than the entirety of the Moon Rune. 

Yes, that's a good shout.

I think the presence of past and future moons is part of where I was trying to get to.

The Sourcebook says that the present owner of the Moon Rune is The Red Goddess (previous unknown). Although someone must know 😉 

I work on the basis that  "ownership" doesn't mean exclusive use of it though. 

4 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Don't forget the Colors entry in the Prosopaedia 24.

Nice one, thanks. That explains a lot! 

4 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

For example Vingan dye their hair red. Does that mean that Vingan are followers of the red moon ? Or are all the Vingan have a strong affinity with the moon rune ?

I agree that it cannot be that only people with an elemental affinity exclusively show preferences for the associated things. But that is not to say that the reverse is not true.

I did wonder about the Vingans though.  Red Goddess subverting Orlanth with femininity... ? 😄

2 minutes ago, Ynneadwraith said:

That's how I'd interpret it certainly. Red is only the colour of the latest Moon to take its place in the pantheon. There's Anilla the Blue Moon, a pending White Moon, and maybe even a long-gone Black Moon (and who knows what other moons were killed in prehistory).

Meanwhile there are other red gods that are not Lunar, such as Shargash.

The mysticism part I'd be happy with, as well as potentially some form of cyclical nature (perhaps in the early expressions of their magic not matching the traditional seasons). Though in reality I see it a bit like those hippy dippy spiritual folks who will confidently state that you're a Scorpio based on hearing barely two anecdotes about you. The whole process of gaining your runic affinities is poorly understood in-universe, and subject to a lot of superstition.

Is it that a child is rushing around wildly because they are innately strong in the Movement rune, or does being encouraged to rush around wildly develop affinity with the Movement rune? A mix of both? Neither? Who knows*.

*And this is good, because it leaves doors open for players and characters to develop freely - plugging in a Just So explanation as to why after the actual decision is made

I think this might be a red herring. Shargash's principle element is Fire/Sky so the associated colour would be Yellow.  Orlanth is blue in the pictures but the colour associated with Air is Orange...

I don't appear to be making my point very clearly.

There are game mechanics that directly link some of the associations with the rune. Weapons listed: these can be inspired. So there is some sort of metaphysical association/link/ connection between Moon and curved weapons.

Personality is listed: character personality will skew towards this if its a primary affinity. So again there is a direct interaction between the rune and personality.

Despite no direct mechanics I have assumed that the other listed associations are similarly actually linked in a real sense otherwise why not make those references in the cults section rather than the rune section of the rules?

E.g. Colour: No direct reference that I can find that establishes whether this colour association is metaphysical or not. Is the design intention that this is a middle world conceit or a universal truth? Are those strong in the force moon drawn/attacted to/in some way influenced towards the colour red?  The importance of this is in the question: has the rune been affected by The Red Goddess' ownership of it? And that extends beyond just the colour.  For me the implications of this are profound. Perhaps I am looking for profundity where there is none.

I'm looking for the cause and effect here. It's no coincidence surely that the crescent horned sables are the ones who aligned with the lunars. There must be some sort of runic influence (pre-disposition) at work there. AFAIK they were not moon cultists before, so is it because the moon rune has different associations now and they had a new-found affinity - or again is that just a conceit - or were they always moon cultists?

If the Red Goddess has changed the rune through her ownership then what does this mean for an individual who has affinity with it?

21 minutes ago, metcalph said:

My position is not even remotely.  They can only ascertain *expressed* runic affinities - those aligned with a worshipped God.  Thus people can know whether a Worshipper of Orlanth is strong in Storm and Movement.  They cannot ascertain one's latent runic affinities easily.  Is a person's anger issues due to Fire?   Darkness?  Disorder?  Chaos?  The idea that one could ascertain latent affinities by looking at whether they like fighting with spears or clubs is kinda silly IMO.

The only good indicator that one has a strong Moon affinity is by looking at whether they worship a Lunar cult.

So, are you suggesting that the associations listed are not intrinsic to the rune? That red is adopted as the colour for the moon by the cults and by people arbitrarily?

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

How are people going to measure this?  Soul Sight and Second Sight do not have this ability while the sorcerous spell Reveal Rune *might* depending on how strong the spell is.  So a Lhankoring who knows that particular spell might be aware of individual runic strengths but the general distribution of Moon Rune affinity within the population is largely a hidden variable.

Your question is essentially the same as mine. Mine is can people measure it? I assumed they could.

Not accurately.

The Rune Inspectors won't be going round with e-meters measuring your runic affinity to two decimal places.

However, runes are associated with material things like weapons, animals and colours.

So, I thought people would "see" runic affinity through behavioural manifestations.

I have always taken it that affinity with a rune brings with it an affinity with the associated things. If you have strong affinity with moon you are drawn to wear more red, you produce artwork with a relative red presence, you are attracted to red things. You like the curve of a sabre over a broadsword. You appear mystically philosophical. That's not to say it's that black and white. Personality is way more complex than a spectrum of runic affinity interactions. But I figured someone with moderate to strong affinity with the moon would have moderate to strong affinity with the colour red. And this would be visible.

I thought runic affinity would show based on the fact that it affects personality and if it shows then it has a presence.

And where that thought takes me is what would Moon rune affinity look like  - in game mechanics terms - before the apotheosis of The Red Goddess, and again after she falls?

What would be the associated colour? Weapons? Personality? Are the published associations core moon runic associations or corruptions by The Red Goddess' ownership of the rune?

And if it changes what happens to those people with the affinity at the moment it changes? Did an affinity with the colour red bleed into/out of their lives? Does the physical presence of manufactured red things increase/diminish in society at these junctures? 

And ultimately I get to the question: if it shows like this how would cultures view this? Would they trust that person who often wears red if red is intrinsically and universally linked in real terms with The Red Goddess?

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

There's a significant difference between the Moon Rune appearing as part of a cult or as part of standard symbology of the Elements vs. the components of your personal soul (which is what is represented by the Runes on your character sheet). No one is going around "measuring" your soul and saying "Oh! You're 50% in the Moon Rune!" (except maybe dwarfs, but they're weird anyway).

Thanks,  I see the meaning is different to how I read it.

I think there would be an awareness within a community of the presence of runic affinity within individuals, but I want to clarify my thoughts on that to explain why. 

Overall, I still think I have an underlying  question though (one that I haven't overtly asked yet).  I might be back after a reread to get you to help me understand something that troubles / confuses me about this. 

5 hours ago, Jeff said:

In my experience, Moon Rune shows up quite often as a secondary or tertiary Rune amongst the Orlanthi. Just as the Air Rune shows up quite often as a secondary or tertiary Rune amongst the Esrolians or Pelorians. 

Can you expand on this a bit, Jeff?

Published material states that "Outside the Lunar Empire [the moon rune] has hardly any presence at all..." [Starter Book 2], reworded slightly in the sourcebook: "Outside of the Lunar Empire, she has little recognition..."

3 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

yes. I've had characters affected by both Mindblast and Madness.  The spells got thrown about in the White Bull campaign too  (See series 2 Episode 9 for example).

the third spell is less likely  😄 

2 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Has it happened in your games or in anyones for that matter?

yes. I've had characters affected by both Mindblast and Madness.  The spells got thrown about in the White Bull campaign too  (See series 2 Episode 9 for example).

14 minutes ago, David Scott said:

It's not automatic. Per LW 94, Requirements for Initiation: To gain the Illumination skill, a person must first experience something that can trigger Illumination. If they don't have the experience, they don't have the skill. If they do have the experience, then it's 1/5 moon rune, plus magic category bonus, plus any bonus from the event.

So if Vasana is Mindblasted, she gets the skill at (Moon Rune 10) + 10% Magic category bonus + lets say a 3% from the mindblast = 23%. Note that she's been a vegetable as a result of the spell for at least week, it's a nasty spell.

In my games, no one has ever been targeted by these spells, although some players have Mindblast.

yes, that's right, it's involuntary if you get affected by one of those three spells listed.

4 minutes ago, David Scott said:

See the last paragraph in LW 99, Is Involuntary Illumination Possible? That covers it for me.

but in game terms the roll is automatic. Which suggests that having moon rune affinity makes it that the "individual [is] unconsciously open to and perhaps seeking the mystical inspiration of Illumination."  Which seems unlikely to me.

The challenge is hard mechanics versus fuzzy philosophy. You have to suppress the mechanics at some point or else we'll go round in circles on this...

Just now, French Desperate WindChild said:

are you saying the orlanthi themselves decide what are their runes ? Or maybe by detection, select babies who fit with the "right" runes ?  So even if being closest to air or earth -because the land is like this, the culture is a consequence, not a cause) gives you a little prevalence for them, the moon cannot be seen as a rare rune, in my opinion

the cultural prejudice may happen, depending how the rune impacts the character behaviour (I agree that my previous post forgot the moon part of the rune) but it would be very surprising that in a "nobody can tell you what you have to do" culture, having a high rune moon rate will automatically remove you from your clan (death / ban / whatever) if you never acted against it.

well as I saw it those with High Moon affinity are more likely to be turn-coats during the occupation.

And no I don't believe in a real sense they would choose what their affinities are - I just think if there was a high presence of moon then perhaps the rebellions might have gone differently. But apparently there is a high occurence so clearly my understanding of how runes affects people is not right.

19 minutes ago, Jeff said:

In my experience, Moon Rune shows up quite often as a secondary or tertiary Rune amongst the Orlanthi. Just as the Air Rune shows up quite often as a secondary or tertiary Rune amongst the Esrolians or Pelorians. 

i guess the original concern aboutinvoluntary illumination stands then. 

13 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Moon rune is magic affinity, not any "political" orientation.

There is a +10 bonus in a rune depending on the homeland but, except this, anyone may be more sensitive to magic than other.

I would say* that the rate of Orlanthi with the moon rune you may find in published material are less important to prove the rule than the game design about the rune itself

 

* I would say too that the weak rate of Orlanthi with the moon rune may be a bias when people create npc. I'm pretty sure that if this rune was not called "moon" but "chili con carne" you will meet more Orlanthi with a good magical affinity in the material. And an interesting way of relationship between  Trolls cooks and these people

Agreed, but it is not magic affinity it is Moon affinity (which happens to align with magic). And the Orlanthi are a little bit at odds with the moon. Yes some Orlanthi will have it but I would suggest it wouldn't be prevalent because of cultural prejudice. 

However, if Moon affinity is highly prevalent in the culture then the prevalence of Illumination would certainly increase based on RAW. 

As with many rules when you apply them to the world as opposed to individual heroes they don't always model well. Applying fumbles to mass battles has always been a good example. Climbing fumbles too. That crazy spiderman guy would be dead by now if RQG rules applied to him! 

52 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

For the physical details of the city, the kingdom, etc. absolutely no effort is required. You’d just ignore the occasional purple boxes about the effects of the Great Winter and the Dragonrise, and treat the King’s and General’s character descriptions referencing a “Tarsh Civil War” as foreshadowing. You may need to invent some prominent High Priests who got et at the Dragonrise, and there’s nothing in the book that stops you doing that. Over 95% of the text (and all the art and maps) will be directly usable; there are a few tiny edge cases (“Do I have to work out what was here before a bunch of Sable Tribe members migrated to the outskirts after the Fall of Prax?”) that honestly won’t cause you any difficulty at all.

Super, thanks!

Hi,

How much work would it be to backdate the details in Furthest, Crown Jewel... to the period between 1616 and 1624? Would it be quite straight forward do you think or require lots of cross-referencing to multiple sources?

cheers

2 hours ago, Kloster said:

Vasana has 50% moon rune

Yes she does.

There are always exceptions to the rule but that doesn't disprove the rule. I've not found any other published Orlanthi with the Moon rune.

9 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

3.5 is the average of a d6 - but actually the chance will be significantly higher than that if as is very likely the target (who is going to be an enemy dangerous enough to merit spending rune points to put down) also has a magic bonus as that is added to the ST Illumination roll...

For me, the key part is that these act as a one-time bonus to the Illumination skill. Base skill is Moon Rune Affinity divided by 5. If your Moon Rune Affinity is 0 (as most Orlanthi are likely to have) then your base illumination skill is 00.  You can't apply bonuses and modifiers to 00 skills. Therefore if your moon rune is 0 then you will only gain skill in Illumination if you learn it or solve riddles.

2 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Sure. Just as if you're deeply steeped in the inner lore of the Pavis cult you might end up heroquesting to command vast stone statues or bring Aldryami and Mostali together, but those aren't entry-level powers that everyone gets to emulate just for 1 Rune point.

I suppose I'm saying the niche a mortal heroquester who attains divinity ends up occupying is what they carve out for themselves in the God World; they can't share every tool they used to carve out that niche with their worshippers. Sartar, like Pavis, provides "City Harmony"; Hon-eel is a new Grain Goddess who brought us the Fifth Wane wonder-crop. That's awesome! But that's because they were awesomely successful mortal heroquesters, and are now (very) minor gods.

Yep, wasn't disputing or challenging what you said. Just teasing out the extrapolation for beginners...

12 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

The cult of Sartar won’t give its members all the weird personal magic Sartar used as a wonder-working magician who eventually became a minor god.

The cult of Hon-eel doesn’t give its members all the weird personal magic Hon-eel used as a wonder-working heroine who eventually became a minor goddess.

This honestly shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody, but apparently it does.

...but presumably they could be discovered through heroquesting.  These are the most esoteric secrets of the cult and maybe not even known by any mortal (yet) and would require exploring off the well-trodden paths in the God Realm?

Irrippi ontor runic associations lists fire/sky (p. 80) but the art work uses the light rune (p. 78)