Stew Stansfield

Two new updates!

P.S. I'm afraid I was slightly lazy with the sorn. I've was meaning to do it properly in colour, but I have a terrible backlog at the mo' (and quite like the scratchy initial sketch). I'll update it eventually!

P.P.S. No, I've no idea why he has an Undead rune painted/tattooed/scarred on his head. I think I just got confused!

4 hours ago, Iskallor said:

Awesome! Can we have a Vingan?

Funnily enough, the next one is indeed a Vingan! (Just colouring it in at the mo' - should be a day or two.)

Here are some other recent doodles.

Wotcher, warblers!

I've been posting these to the Glorantha Google+ page so far, but while that format is brilliant for quickly displaying visual things like these, it isn't that great for keeping stuff collated. As I'm working on a few more at the moment, I thought I'd start a thread here, with all the links 'n' stuff.

Attached at the bottom of this post (at least, I bloody hope so) are the first four in the series. Below is a list of all current entries, with links to high-quality PDFs.

*****

Famous Ducks of the Hero Wars

1. Runk Squallheart, Basmoli Duck Gladiator

2. Rudepebble the Streamlord, Rune Lord of the River Gods

3. Buy-one-get-one-free Bronzebill, Rune Priest of Issaries/Etyries

4. Sir Montgomery Quackholy, Duck of (Not Quite) All

5. Mildred Keenwarble, Vingan Adventurer

6. Sungobble, Ptyrant of the Sorns

7. Esmerelda Wildwarble, Torch Singer

8. Snipbeak, Duck Bandit

Bonus Deviance

a. In the Duck Corners of the Earth

b. Elf-finger

c. An Illustrated Duckopedia of Durulz Helmets

d. The Sord Sage

e. Holiday Glorantha: Stormwalk Mountain

f. The Parade of the Bloomers

34 minutes ago, g33k said:

Does anyone know of a copy of that image (those images?) from Tales #19?  It looks like something I'd really like to take a gander at!

I should have been clearer: the depictions were verbal, rather than visual. (Simon did accompanying inkwork, but you can't really tell breeds from them.)

Jests aside, I think it is important to say a word on canonicity with regard to ducks: there basically isn't any. And I think it rather unlikely that there will ever be any to the extent people think of when considering fantasy races in role-playing games.

Why? Ducks are a weird, leftfield outlier, whose power derives from their ambiguous, oddball mystery. They're liminal, be it inside Glorantha or outside it. Less is more. The questions are more amusing than the answers. That's their strength. Jeff and Rick have both affirmed this view in the past. It could change, but I'd be somewhat surprised.

Short answer to people thinking about ducks? ("Stop, you deviant.") Have fun. Make stuff up as you like.

2 hours ago, g33k said:

Is there any (canonical) reason why other sorts may not occur?

 

Because some plumages are a pain in the arse to draw!

I'm not being entirely unserious. Ducklore in Glorantha is so lightly sketched that the choice of something like the colour of feathers is up to the artist (on the very, very rare occasions that ducks are shown in colour in publications). It's more an issue of artistic whim and the nature of the composition.

The influence of Disney's Duck Tales and Gerber's Howard--and their four-colour simplicity--is strong on anthropomorphic ducks, so I'm not surprised white ducks appear on, say, Steve Purcell's Apple Lane cover or Jennell's WF#15 cover (or other work). (Daffy is less of an influence for other artists - though I use black quite a bit.) White and off-whites are very useful in how they can provide clarity and focus to an image. The Barks is strong.

The (male) mallard is well-known and provides another very quick and easy signal ("Duck!") to its audience. It's not necessarily the easiest set of colours to work into a composition, though. I tend to draw mallards a bit as I like green and am perhaps better at working it than some other hues. If you're wanting to depict some variation in a duck's feathers, the green-white-brown transition provides that in a simple, localised, uncluttered way. (With some other real-world plumages, it can get messy quite quickly.)

But, yes, there are lots and lots of other types. When Martin H. and friends did their write-up of the Anas clan in Tales #19, they depicted a varied mix of Ruddy Shovelers, Bluebeaks, Amberdrakes, Mergansers, Pinfeathers, etc. I know Simon B. has painted ducks as teals (as does RQ3 Monsters), and my last one was an American Wigeon. I'm sure artists will keep messing about with new things.

Apropos of nothing, Iskallor, I thought you'd enjoy this non-Praxian shamanic tangent:

Joseph Greenface, (in)famous shaman and spokesbeak of the ducks, has a female fetch named Dear! who resides in the iron 'horns'/antlers of his reindeer-hide armour. (Joseph is also accompanied by the spirits Slim, Brunhilda and Pidgeon; and can summon James the sylph and Slippery Sam the undine - whose waters hold Bruno the rainbow fish. Needless to say, adventuring with Joseph is ACE!)

(And, no, I'm not making any of this up. I think Charlie K. was particularly well-lubricated that session. )

5 hours ago, TRose said:

 If I remember the story right.

 The owners of an old and long out of business miniature company called Archive miniatures came up with two  figures called Barbarian Duck and his old lady as a novelty item. This was BEFORE Runequest.

 The  owners of Archive miniatures where friends with Greg Stafford and co and for fun decided to come up with a way to add the Ducks to Glorantha so people could use the minitiarure . I used to own a number of Archive miniatures as they where the original Glorantha  miniatures.

 

In Greg's own words:

The ducks entered Glorantha because of my fan collaborators when I
published WB&RM. I was publishing the fanzine Wyrd at that time, and
the collaborators were: William Church (ie- Wilmskirk), Steve Swenston
(ie- Swenstown) and Brian Christ*, who owned a comic store in Santa
Rosa, CA. I asked Brian what he wanted his town named, and he said,
"Duckburg."

At that time Disney was suing the pants off the Air Pirates for
copyright infringement of Micky and Donald, and I was concerned that
they might even hunt down and kill such small peanuts as me, so I
changed the name to be Duck Point.

*Brian Crist.

Some bits of info could be deliberately vague or left open. When I asked Greg who the 'Sokastori'--the enemies of the Basalt Phalanx--were, for something I was doing, he said he had no idea and told me to make something up. (I plumbed for sorcerers--specifically Logicians/'Wicked Philosophers'--incidentally.)

1 hour ago, trystero said:

My main concern is with the typeface used; please don't use the spindly Garamond face that Moon Design used for the Guide to Glorantha and for HeroQuest Glorantha. I'm sure it fits a lot of words on the page, but it makes the books hard for me to skim (and increasingly just hard to read) for my aging eyes. The type needn't be large, but I hope you'll use a slightly heavier face with a bit more page colour.

This is something I've mentioned in the past (though at perhaps a more, er, confrontational time). It's clear that Moon Design like the general style of a Garamond face (me too), but there are weightier alternatives if this is an issue. The digitisation of Monotype Garamond is fairly notorious for its lack of body, which can be exacerbated depending on printing conditions.

If MD/Chaosium would like to keep the style but get a bit more depth, it might be worth checking out the other Garamond faces.

I can't say for sure if Col meant it (probably!), but by that map he's placed Duck Point in Longsight. Which is an act of sheer genius.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

When Hero Wars came along, other authors picked up on the existence of the Aeolians and provided their own interpretations (Glorantha: Introduction to the Hero Wars, Thunder Rebels, HeroQuest 1st Edition).

Mark's exploration of the Esvulari in HeroQuest Voices, by way of the 'All Things Bright and Beautiful' pastiche, is still one of my favourite contributions to Glorantha. Absolute genius. (Though perhaps the nuances are more resonant among those of us with a parochial Anglican education.)

16 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I don't see much opportunity for fishing except in water-filled calderas, and there probably more amphibians than regular fish. Lots of water insects wherever it remains wet, though.

Good stuff! Re: open-water fishing, this is what I wrote years ago:

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Fire and Sea have always been foes in Kethaelan myth. Sshorg, Terror of the Deeps, surged forth to drown the burning world and its kingdoms; Vestkarthen, the Great Father, thrust his realm upwards and sent rivers of fire to parch the oceans to vapor and salt. Since the Dawn their children have borne the banners of this antagonism.

All Caladran tribes hold the Sea in an esteem born of fear, for it is the Watery Death that quenches the blood-fires of the soul. Most of those that ply the seas for food do so armed for war, unlike the Rightarm Islanders, whose ways influence only a few Caladran fishermen. Great outriggers of wood and bone are guarded by volcano-priests and warriors, and cast their nets to catch just those fish floating on the surface, boiled alive or suffocated along the Poison Shore. Only the bravest clan champions stride into the seas at dawn and dusk, to stand in the surf and cast a burning rock into its foam, crying challenges to Wachaza and his demons.

 

In case it's not clear, I should stress that I was just joking in that post (on account of the errors mixing the deities' elements, genders and localities up and the confusion it's sown). Even poor Yelmalio didn't get this mucked about. (On more general issues of the combination? Cool!)

35 minutes ago, Martin said:

So Caladra should have the Earth Rune?

DO IT!

Consider this:

In the original write-up, Caladra was a feminine Fire deity from Caladraland and Aurelion was a masculine Earth deity from Jrustela.

In Glorantha: Introduction to the Hero Wars, Peter's manuscript was garbled to read so that Caladra was a masculine Fire deity from Caladraland and Aurelion was a feminine Earth deity from Jrustela.

In Glorantha: The Second Age, this error was 'corrected' so that Aurelion was a masculine Fire deity from Caladraland and Caladra was a feminine Earth deity from Jrustela.

If we have Caladra as a feminine Earth deity from Caladraland and Aurelion as a masculine Fire deity from Jrustela... we complete the set! We get a prize! THE RITUAL BEGINS. ("'scuse me, Egon? You said crossing the runes was BAD...")

If I'm ever somewhat arsey about how Caladraland is presented in published Glorantha, guys, I think the above may illustrate why.

(Not aimed at Martin; I, as noted above, have my suspicions about Caladra not being as uniformly fiery as sometimes supposed. But...)

Thanks, Jeff! Appreciate the response. I'll knock it off and put Monster Man back in his cell.

27 minutes ago, Patrick said:

So, there's no reason why Caladra & Aurelion couldn't be a "combined" cult (like, say, the Seven Mothers), with e.g. Fire/Earth/Harmony.

I think part of the difficulty here is the use of the phrase 'Fire Within Earth', which has become confused. I'm as much to blame for that as anyone. It's a great, evocative phrase and tends to get thrown about with regard to Caladraland and, yes, Veskarthan/Lodril - for whom it's also apposite, albeit in a different way. And with all the confusion over Caladran gods over the years, this is where the issues come in.

For ease of understanding, please queue up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmLMJRFM21w

When Jeff speaks of the the Twins as the Fire Within Earth, it's clear he is speaking of [their, i.e. the Twins'] Fire Within [other entities'] Earth. I think this is very true generally for Caladraland in the scheme of the Holy Country, and for character of Veskarthan.

But when reading the Different Worlds/Tales of the Reaching Moon write-ups I'd suggest that within the context of the Twins themselves it's different. There if you follow through the description of the cult and its myths, Fire Within Earth would mean [her, i.e. Caladra's] Fire Within [his, i.e. Aurelion's] Earth.

That's why I struggle with a Twins cult that would include one rune but not the other.

But I'll bow out here and not pester further. It is what it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oblbLHYu6uY

(Hey, it was close enough.)

26 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Strange as it may sound - the cult of Caladra & Aurelion have Fire, not Earth. They are the fire within the earth.

Jeff, the tone of what I'm about to write may not come across well, so please believe me when I say it's in good humour.

Glorantha's changed. I get it. The time from the later '90s to the later 2000s when it was a multi-authored world with all of us sticking our oar in with abandon has gone. That was put paid to. Many voices have disappeared. I don't think anyone wants to be disruptive and kick up a fuss for the sake of it, or make your job as the main writer harder.

But in light of all that's been written on the cult--and its fundamental purpose and nature--this just strikes me as weird. I simply don't understand where this comes from, or why.

25 minutes ago, soltakss said:

As a Hero, I thought that Tessele was associated with Life/Fertility, after the TwinQuest.

I'll lazily play the 'Greg' card here

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[Tessele is] a goddess born when  the world was made... Her hands, spindly, enwrap her Y-shaped staff... Her function, from the dawn of creation, is to  hold forth the truth for whomever would see it. (Belintar's Book, Tradetalk#5, p.4)

and

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... she seems to be a manifestation of, or a form of, or an aspect of, the Truth Rune. I suggest that she might be a Truth Power, which can provide the Silver Light of Truth on something when invoked. (pers. comm.)

Should clear things up!

On runes:

26 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Yes, but individually, they clearly have Fire and Earth separately - Caladara shows no earth abilities and Aurelion no fire abilities.

A lot of this depends on whether you think they can and do exist as to a degree as worshipable individual entities following the GL jiggery-pokery, Simon. There's always been a lot of confusion here on what happened, the degree to which the Twins survived the closing in more recent works, the confusion between the nature and role of Caladra vs Veskarthan, etc. With Jeff tidying this up and reaffirming the nature of the Twins cult in the Third Age and clarifying the role of Veskarthan, I'm happy to keep it simple and stick with the Twins.

The possible elephant in the room here is Greg's notion of the Caladran deity that is the 'Soil Mother', who hasn't yet appeared in anything published.

I should first stress that Greg isn't perhaps as aware of the finer points of everything Chuck wrote decades ago as some of us perhaps think (I don't mean that as a criticism - I'm going through the proofs of something I wrote five years ago, and feel like a dunce); he noted that himself and spoke of his desire not to just gainsay Chuck's stuff. This was evident in some of the confusion between Veskarthan and (masculine) Caladra that was going on at the time.

But when asked:

Quote

How do you think the Caladran myth-culture views Earth? Glorantha: Introduction to the Hero Wars mentions Asrelia. Are there any goddesses worshipped, or is there reference to an Earth Witch tradition?

Greg responded:

Quote

 

Asrelia is the Orlanthi name for the feminine powers that are deep within the earth. She is a comparitive analogue for the native goddess. I am not sure of exactly the name that th Caladrans use for her. She is the mother of Veskarthan, whose active essence (hot lava)  lives deep inside the earth.

Earth Witch is simply a misapplied shamanic worship of Asrelia.

The Soil Mother is a child of Veskarthan and the Deep Earth. She takes the form of ash and lava, and then transforms herself into soil.

The plants we eat are the child of Soil Mother and the cut-up portions of the plans that we plant.

 

My initial thought was to follow the rather Earth-y goddess-y template that we adopt almost on reflex (and is indeed suggested in my question). But looking at it, the description in terms of parentage (Veskarthan and the Deep Earth) and form (lava and ash) matches much of what Chuck says about Caladra. Folks have wondered what that 'subcult of Lodril' was that the God Learners acted upon; I sometimes wonder if we're missing a trick here.

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

With the new understanding of Gods and Runes, i'd say that Caladra & Aurelion are are a two Rune Cult, like likely with the runes of Fertility and Harmony.

Incidentally--and in a seemingly rather bizarre contradiction of what I wrote above, wishing to retain elements and discard Fertility!--I think this is a good two-rune summation, if you wish to treat their elemental natures as a heritage and focus on the prominent product.

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

With the new understanding of Gods and Runes, i'd say that Caladra & Aurelion are are a two Rune Cult, like likely with the runes of Fertility and Harmony.

Tessele the True is a hero of the cult with Harmony

37 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Caladra and Aurelion are worshiped as one cult - Fire, Fertility, and Harmony. They acquired Harmony during their reunion.

I'm afraid I'll have to raise some objections here.

Firstly, Tessele has always been a complex, mysterious entity and the association with Harmony (which was a distinctly God Learner addition)--rather than Truth which has been emphasised elsewhere--is little curious, David.

Secondly, I'm not quite keen on like attempts to shift the Twins cult to this new-era runic model.

Some background. Glorantha likes its elemental and gender associations; so much so that they can muddy our thinking of concepts that take a different tack. If you scroll up in this thread, you'll see a common perception of a feminine Fire aspect and a masculine Earth aspect.

I understand why people think that. Yes, switching around the typical Fire=male, Earth=female aspects is interesting. Caladra is described as a 'beautiful, orange-skinned woman with fiery hair'; Aurelion a 'handsome, black-skinned man'. Caladra is associated with a fiery volcano; Aurelion a lump of rock in the sea. Caladra is described as inheriting 'her father's element'; Aurelion 'the lore of the wealth within the Earth' from Asrelia. Caladra in her initial form was a 'subcult of Lodril'; Aurelion 'a minor Earth god of Jrustela'.

Unfortunately it's not quite correct. The point of the cult is not that they are two disparate elements united in Harmony--one Fire, the other Earth--but that they share both elements. As Chuck writes on the role of men and women in the cult:

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By the evident nature of the cult, men and women are equally able to take up any role offered by the cult. Women identify with Caladra and men with Aurelion, but either sex can identify with the Hot (purifying, warrior) or Earthy (fertile, nurturing) aspects of the Twins. The ultimate goal of the worshipper of either sex is to master both in Harmony.

As Chuck says elsewhere: '... the Twins resolved to share ever after their elemental natures -- Fire Within Earth.'

Which leads me to Jeff's post. Recasting the Twins without the Earth rune feels like... I don't know. A union of Fire and Earth without Earth feels weird. This may be because of a disinclination to have two elemental runes together in the same cult, in an era when we're using runes more actively as game concepts. I understand that, but would suggest that the Twins cult are an oddity that can be an exception to this. They are a decidedly funky God Learner creation that transcends the normal pattern; one of the most individual outside creations, and I think we can allow them some leeway.

If anything is an interloper in the original association (Fire, Earth, Fertility. Harmony) it's perhaps the Fertility rune. It's more of a 'consequence' rune reflecting the warming, nourishing aspects of Fire in Harmonious union with the bounteous potential of Earth. It describes the cult very well, but if something has to go... Not that I think it necessarily does: I think the weirdness of the Twins works with a four-rune description.

As politely as possible, I don't think we need to alter the runes in this way.

29 minutes ago, Jeff said:

But after every eruption, he is rechained by Argan Argan and brought back deep into the earth, unable to aid the world except through his children.

As an aside, I think this is one of the 'firm-up's I find most interesting. There'd been a lot of confusion over what happened to Veskarthan after he'd been defeated by Argan Argar. For example: WF/WP stated he was released; Different Worlds/Tales #7 suggested he wasn't (or, at least, not quite - c.f. Eurmal). We obviously knew that the victories of Argan Argar in the Godtime provided a mythic currency that carried through beyond the Dawn, exploited by his son and the Kingdom of Night, but this clarification is cool.

It also gives the Twins a lot more of a role, which is great. As we've discussed before, I was worried they were getting a bit lost!

Thanks, Jeff! I still don't trust the beggar, though! I'm keeping an eye on him...

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

Deep within him is the Wildfire, an untamable demon of conflagration that once threatened to destroy all of creation until tamed by Veskarthan...

Question for you, Jeff!

In one of the earliest published myths on Lodril (Wyrms Footprints 10; reprinted in Wyrms Footnotes, p. 57), he is described as fighting an entity of Chaos. They fought, until

Quote

Lodril recognised, almost too late, that he could not destroy this foe. He determined that he was willing to destroy himself if he could also destroy the monster. He entwined and entangled himself with it and sought his deepest fires to scorch both of them from life. His effort was only partially successful, for where there had been two things before there was afterwards only one. Lodril remained most prominent, but he was tainted ever afterwards with a violence unlike most fire entities.

No myth of this event told since has been quite as particular or explicit in the mention of Chaos. Either the outcome is changed or simplified (as in Lodril's 'exultant victory' in the RuneQuest Companion), or we see the nature of the entity rendered in more obscure or variably interpretable terms. I can see why. Chaos can be awkward in Glorantha. It can lead to fairly simplistic, binary thinking in a manner that much of the rest of Gloranthan myth does not. But I've always liked this myth and its portent.

This is particularly resonant for Veskarthan, where that Disorder is internalised in a way that it is not in the myths of Pelorian Lodril, ViSaruDaran and Turos, where that Disorder is effectively externalised into Deshkorgos, etc. (Though I'm always wary of how these two at-times very different sets of myths reflect on each other.)

So, in short (and put very provocatively): has Glorantha dialled back on the rather early idea that Veskarthan is part-Chaos, or is it happy to reply with a non-committal smile?