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Posts posted by Evilroddy

  1. Yelm's Light:

    Fair enough, I am operating from 'ancient' memory so I can't be sure of myself will thus defer to your more informed position on this ... for now.;)

    When I can find the books and the time, I will redo my homework and if needed I will get back to you. Thanks for an interesting discussion and for the free educational!

    Cheers and good gaming.


  2. Does Nabuzel Ninequills carry the book with him? This could be dangerous and risky but also opens up some doors to interesting adventures. Given that the Red Book is of God Learner or EWF/Draconic origin, perhaps it is cursed. Luckily, Nabuzel has a charm or talisman which protects him from attack by the spirits of the curse and makes the spirits blind to his existence, but should the book be lost or stolen those sent by Nabuzel to recover and return it would have some intriguing problems to deal with. Bad dreams, nightmares, night terrors, temporary possessions, and sinister spiritual attacks await the minions of Nabuzel.

    Having Lunar rivals and non-Lunar shadows as well could lend an element of paranoia to the characters unlucky enough to be taking his patronage. Perhaps a Jalmari knight and some fanatical Humakti muscle are on Nabuzel's tail. Have the underlings of Nabuzel learn that the Humakti are on their trail and let them panic as these relentless killers hunt them. Being Humakti, they are poor bounty hunters or trackers so an actual confrontation need not occur. Just the knowledge that they're out there, somewhere, hunting Nabuzel and his PC minions will be a source of tension and urgency driving forward the drama of the adventure.

    Perhaps their plans are overheard by a notorious trickster who gains a vague inkling into the value of the book or of Nabuzel himself. Theft, kidnapping, blackmail or con-artistry could be challenges the minion PCs have to deal with and overcome in their service to Nabuzel.

    Perhaps the Great Library of Glamour after conducting an exhaustive forensic investigation has pieced together enough of the story that they suspect they know what Nabuzel is up to. No details, just broad strokes. Not knowing about the imperial approval, the library sends agents to clean up the mess, recover or secure the book (if it exists) and bring back Nabuzel and his minions for interrogation. 

    Not only have the Librarians of Glamour learned of Nabuzel. Within their ranks are informers who have leaked Nabuzel's name and a very vague description of the librarians' suspicions to agents of the Library of Heads. The greedy Thanatari/Atyari cannot pass up the opportunity to possess such knowledge and send out agents to track, verify and secure Nabuzel's book and head.

    Word has come to the ears of a powerful Stygian sorcerer from Arkat's Hold that there is a lunar scribe in possession of an ancient, powerful and very dangerous artefact. The sorcerer is unable to scry the details of this menace but feels concerned enough that he decides he must personally track down and confront the mysterious clerk.

    The Emperor, fearing that Nabuzel is vulnerable and the book is at risk decides to send a very capable but very small team of fixers and watchers to protect imperial interests. Realising that Nabuzel is a shrewd judge of character and slightly paranoid, the fixers must follow Nabuzel and his minions at a distance and cannot infiltrate his party. They are instrumental in cleaning up the messes that the party leaves in its wake. They can also swoop in and save the party if things get out of hand for the PCs.

    Those are just some ideas for such an interesting and flawed patron as Nabuzel to be entangled in. Give the whole Red Book arc a creepy hybrid Lovecraftian-Gloranthan vibe and you're set for a wild and spooky ride.

    Cheers and good gaming.



    • Like 3
  3. Yelm's Light:

    I'm not anywhere near my books right now. My recollection, which is now over 30 years old, is that it is both explicit (Book VIII?) and implicit throughout the "Republic" and augmented in the "Laws" and the Alcibiades and Laches dialogues. 

    In the absence of my books, maybe this interesting article on the Platonic roots of the 'just war doctrine' will be of some assistance.


    Sorry that I can't be of more help right now but those books are in storage 800 km from me at this time.

    Cheers and good gaming,

    Rod Robertson.

  4. Yelm's Light:

    The Platonic concepts of the just state and the just soul are very different from what modern terrestrial notions of 'just' entail. A Platonic state is an extremely totalitarian state which controls every aspect of its subjects' lives from cradle to grave. Plato argued the visual arts, music, prose, and indeed all forms of expression be controlled and only expressions which supported the goals and ideals of the state be allowed. Plato set aside special vehemence for rooting out dissent by controlling poetry which he viewed as a dangerous art. Poets were to be watched and controlled and if they would not or could not conform to the proper expression of the state's ideals, they should be killed. 

    Philosophy was likewise tightly controlled and was only permitted to the most just souls in their later years, about 50 years of age or older. People who would not or could not support the just ideals of the state were treated very harshly. On a first offence there would be five years of prison combined with vigorous re-education for the transgressors. For a second offence, death. The airing of the erroneous expression was deemed so dangerous that no open trial would be allowed and no opportunity to mount a defence would be afforded to the mistaken. They would be quietly condemned and disappeared to prison or to an early grave.

    In Plato's Republic strength of body was as important as strength of soul. Fitness of body was as important as fitness of mind. It was the duty of all to maintain peak fitness and to 'encourage' others to do likewise. Not just the Auxillaries (equivalents of the Loskalmi Guardians) and the Magistrates (Loskalmi Nobels) were to train in arms, so it was the responsibility of all to be prepared for war. The Platonic state was to be aggressive, not pacifistic. It was to aggressively conquer territories and resources for the good of the state. It had no use for unindoctrinated conquered peoples so their future fate was grim and short. Selective breeding and state rearing of children was to be the norm. Read the following passage from the fictional Socrates (Plato's mouth-piece) to see how far the state was to be willing to go to shape the young and deny/thwart human instinct:


    “the best of either sex should be united with the best as often [as possible], and the inferior with the inferior as seldom as possible; and they should rear the offspring of the one sort of union, but not of the other, if the flock is to be maintained in first-rate condition. Now these goings-on must be a secret which only the rulers know, or there will be a further danger of our herd, as they may be termed, breaking out into rebellion.”

    So the state was to practice covert eugenics in order not to trigger rebellion from the population. 

    The Platonic State was to be neither pacifist nor isolationist. It was to be a well ordered and and organised engine of logistics and human capital devoted to promoting the power of the state and advancing its interests by 'moral' and military means. The tyrant was only bad because he placed his own debased desires before the needs of the state. The tyrant was bad, but defacto state-tyranny was standard operating procedure. That's why comparison of the Platonic state to fascism or National Socialism or Stalinism is flawed, as these served the needs and wants of only a part of the state. The Platonic state was to serve all, not just an elite, and force them by indoctrination to become 'willing' participants in a vast state project. The leaders and soldiers of the state were supposed to have no property as such would distract them from the full pursuit of their mandate in service of the state. Property was allowed only to the lower producer class of the state as control of the means of production was necessary to efficient and driven production. But the excessive accumulation of property or capital was forbidden. That is why a slightly capitalist flavour of Maoism is the best modern analogue to Plato's Republic. 

    How then does this inform our understanding of Loskalmi Hrestoli Idealism?

    Cheers and good gaming.


    • Like 1
  5. Pentallion:

    No, not the destruction of Loskalm. I was speculating that the Brithini might not want the destruction of Loskalm but rather the weaponising of it. Using it, first as bulwark and then as a weapon against the Lunar Empire/Nysalor/Gbaji complex. Forge and sharpen it in the ban, temper, quench and harden it in the blood of the Kingdom of War and then use it in earnest against the corruption of illumination from the Lunar Way. A grand crusade up the Janube, across Carmania and Penlanda and into the heart of the Empire while dragons and heroes of the West and East rend the moon and bleed it white before toppling it completely. Immortal Brithini, like long-lived mistress race trolls, take the long view.

    As to Snodal, did he see the Atlas of Zzabur while exiled in and beyond the Valind wastes and thus had foreknowledge of the threat from Sedenya and a resurgent Nysalor/Gbaji? Could such a glimpse have been orchestrated by the Brithini or Zzabur himself? (I've just realised that I'm not sure if Zzabur is necessarily male. I've just always assumed that 'he' was.) Could Snodal unknowingly have been given subtle guidance by the Brithini and mistook that for divine inspiration in the bringing of the Ban?

    Is there a secret history which lies hidden below the one told in the two volumes of canonical and received wisdom in the G2G? Are Greg, Jeff and Sandy hoodwinking us as false prophets and agents of Brithini deception? Do we need a Gloranthan Procopius to come along and tear away the veil by writing a Secret History? Could that be the hidden Volume III of the G2G which lies beside the Atlas of Zzabur secreted with the Altinae, beyond Valind's Glacier? Enquiring minds want to know! :huh:

    Cheers and good gaming.



    • Like 1
  6. 2 hours ago, Pentallion said:

    The perfection of their golden era obviously wasn't the point of Snodal's Ban.  He was buying time.  But it wasn't time to defeat the Kingdom of War, because the Kingdom of War was a result of the Ban, not the inevitability he was trying to avoid.  When the Lunars sweep across Fronela, destroying all who stand in their path, we know the Loskalmi are not destroyed.  Defeated perhaps, but not destroyed because in the end, Argrath calls upon the dragon of the west wind who comes to destroy the Moon.

    So Snodal's Ban strengthens Loskalm because of the perfection it gives them.  The perfection wanes after the Ban is lifted, but three generations of living within it is enough.  The Loskalmi are prepared now to face the coming storm.  All they need is an enemy to harden them.  The Kingdom of War was most likely a feature, not a bug, of the Syndic's Ban.

    Brilliant analysis Pentallion! Machiavellian metaphysics and mysticism in the service of radical social engineering, but to what end.? Defence of Loskalm or something much bigger? A two-track scheme worthy of the most arcane Brithini zzaburi! I like it, hell, I love it. I'm stealing it! Thank you. Spring boarding off your amazing insight, do you think it possible that the infinitely patient Brithini could have been behind it, subtly influencing Snodal and Siglat from afar and operating below the Hrestoli's radar? Have they been orchestrating this all along to force a second confrontation with Nysalor/Gbaji after Arkat stumbled and failed to eliminate this catalyst of cataclysms? This is definitely cool speculation! I'm all jazzed up now!

    Cheers and good gaming.



  7. Well, I'm lost and confused! I have to do some serious reading before I can follow the more esoteric strands in this thread. Erasanchula? Gotta look that one up! I should learn how to spell Siglat's name too! I guess I'm just too firmly rooted in Makan-materialism to fully comprehend the merit-based majesty of magically Maoist Loskalm. I can't help imagining RKO Films-style towers radiating harmony waves over all of Loskalm while an Orlanthi incarnation of Winston Smith looks on in pallid-faced horror. I'm actually considering rooting for the Kingdom of War right now! Yikes! I guess it's Treason Island for me! Maybe I can put the trees back in Treason!

    Is Danmalastan near Uzbekistan? :huh:

    Cheers and good gaming.

    A bewildered Evilroddy.

  8. Jon L.

    You make very good points. I can see the Hrestoli-idealists being able to manage the great majority of people, but I still can't get my head around how they manage a very small but intractable minority of people who will just not fit in. All populations have dissident or deviant groups who will not or cannot conform to societal norms. Those who commit crimes or defy authority for the thrill of it, the dangerous-lazy who prefer to commit easy crimes rather than toiling at less rewarding and hard work, the insane, the possessed and the subversive. There's just something off, something sinister about such a perfect society and I want to peer behind the curtain to see the monsters behind the serene and smiling faces. My Orlanthi soul bridles at such harmony and self/ego/id-extinction. Something's rotten in the state of Loskalm! And with the Ban preventing them from exiling the unassimilatable. Where did they go?

    Cheers and thanks for your insights.


  9. HI Jeff:

    Two questions occur to me. Pre-lifting of the Ban, how did the Hrestoli Idealists deal with those who lacked 'merit' and thus could not rise to even the first rung of the meritocracy? These are the incompetent, the indifferent, the sick, the insane or the predatory. Was magic used to cure or to re-educate those who did not fit in?

    The second question concerns the state of the meritocracy post-lifting of the Ban. How far has Makan-materialism permeated into the Kingdom of Loskalm proper by 1621 ST? Does the kingdom allow foreigners within its frontiers or is it xenophobic in attempt to limit the permeation of Makan-materialism's corruption?

    Noyalings were incorporated into the population of Easval in the mid-1400's according to the G2G and I presume that if this process happened in the north it might have happened in the south. But I guess I'm wrong. I don't have the Guide at hand right now, but I'll put in a page reference later.

    Thanks for your guidance above. It is most appreciated.



    The Noyaling reference is from the description of Kintaem on p. 208 of Vol. 1 of the G2G. 

  10. To the wise Magi of Glorantha:

    I am wondering just how perfect or imperfect Hrestoli Idealism has made Loskaim. How close to utopia are they really? Are there lazy, disinterested, disengaged, criminal, pereverted, greedy, power-crazed or dissenting groups who challenge the primacy and the legitimacy of the Hrestoli Idealistic way? What about chaotic cult penetration? Are there thieves and thieves guilds in Loskalm? Is there smuggling and black marketing there? Do brigands and highway men haunt the roads and trails of Loskalm? Are there rogue wizards and underground networks of magic? Can pagan populations and creeds coexist with Hrestoli Idealism along the frontiers of Loskalm? Are there people who simply do not want to participate in any of the four castes of Loskalmi society? Is there a Loskalmi underclass? Are there any dissident movements against the principles and tenets of the Hrestoli Way? I am not talking about differences within the Hrestoli Creed such as the tensions between the old guard  of Snodal's and Siglath's days and the Young Turks who have arisen since the Ban lifted. I'm talking about people who just don't buy into any of it. Like the Noyaling people of the north or the folks like the Orlanthi Oranori pagans of the south who happen to live within the frontiers of Loskalm? Is there a Loskalmi underground? Some sub rosa subcultures? And no, I don't mean a subway system!

    Any insights, whimsical musings, prognostications or ironclad canonical doctrine will be appreciated.

    Cheers and good gaming.


    • Like 2
  11. And yet these illuminates continue to play; to grind and refine the powder to make for a more violent burn and then some light the fuse! Self-aware nihilists can still be self-absorbed nihilists. They serve themselves and enhance the void, but nature abhors the void and reacts with cataclysms and destruction by turning illuminated heroes into monsters and agents of destruction.


    Rod Robertson.

  12. Every villain is a hero in his/her own mind's narrative. 

    Daruda pre-existed time, so delaying enlightenment for the good of Kaorela's stability and cohesion is not a good argument. Cause and effect are irrelevant in a pre-temporal context.

    Is the Path of Immanent Mastery a tool for social cohesion or a tool for controlling the Kralorelan polity and marshaling their spiritual essence for the service of the Dragon Emperors. A pyramid scheme for the apotheosis of the few at the expense of the many. I smell the taint of the God Learners and the EWF in this philosophy.



  13. Quote

      I do not know who does the judging but doesn't that keep a certain check on behavior of true Lunar believers? 


    The question is does that 'check' constrain illuminates? I am inclined to believe not. To me illumination is severance from the personal responsibility to a Gloranthan 'Natural Order', whatever particular order that might be. It is the triumph of ego-centric self-preoccupation over the very real social, spiritual and magical ties which bind and constrain Gloranthans into some sort of a community; a lesser-compromise which binds all to the web of society. It is an existential acceptance of the primacy of the void and the attendant liberation that goes with it. After all, it is hard to imagine how one can submit to and serve the void thus opening the door to unbridled service of the self. Instead of submission to some external order, be it social, religious, philisophical or magical, illumination severs the individual from the behavioural webs of Glorantha and turns the illuminate into the philisophical equivalent of Humakti; who are so potent because they have decoupled themselves from life and have focused upon serving death. Illuminates have likewise severed themselves from the web of ties which constrain their actions and their ambitions. Unrestrained, they become philisophical swords capable of chopping up established orders if doing so serves their goals, ambitions and desires. In a sense they too wield death but on a much grander scale than Humakti. For illuminates are capable of philisophically killing societies and the ties that bind multitudes of mortals to those societies. Who is more destructive? A temporal war-lord who kills tens of thousands or a Dragon Emperor who philosophically cancels an entire society in order to personally apotheosize to a higher plane of existence? One comits multiple murders. The other cancels the value of a web which binds millions and casts that web aside for personal reasons. That is sociopathic narcissism on the grandest scale. That is the 'you(s) fought, I won' occlusion which tears social orders apart and leads to the philisophical, spiritual and religious Balkanization and subsequent magical fragmentation which shreds societies and indeed Gloranthan nature/reality itself. Thus illumination is a catalyst for the void and thus is profoundly dangerous in all of its forms.




  14. Pentallion:

    Oops! I really do need glasses! OK, back to the drawing board it is. Thanks for the correction, he said rather sheepishly!


    Thanks for the ideas. Your choice of words for the start of your second paragraph has me wondering again if the caravan or parts of it travel around the Kingdom of Ignorance? You say that, "Once the caravan arrives in the Kingdom of Ignorance, the journey has not stopped." This would seem to imply there is continuing travel (journey) within the K of Ignorance. Am I misunderstanding your intent here? 

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Evilroddy the Blind.


  15. Good discussion to date. Thanks for all the feed back.

    By my reckoning, counting hexes along the route from Palbar to Jangi-Shar in the AA Altlas, the journey is about 275 hexes or about 1400 Km. A caravan with wagons traveling at 5 Km/hr. for six hours a day covers 30 Km/day and could complete such a journey in 50-55 days.  If a caravan with just pack animals can travel 5 Km/hr. for eight hours a day, it will cover the distance in 35-40 days. Allowing for extra time due to trading stops along the way and fording rivers, etc. a pack-animal-only caravan is too fast for the biennial caravan constraint. Such caravans could make it to the Kingdom of Ignorance and back in two seasons. Thus I added wagons and carts to slow things down in order to extend the travel time to match the requirement of a two-year trip. 

    While not wanting to ignore the cultural and religious merits of using wagons in Glorantha, there is plenty of evidence for extensive wagon use without roads/tracks by nomadic peoples and colonists in terrestrial Eurasia and America. So I am not convinced that wagons and carts could not make such a journey. Steppe land is not treeless by any stretch of the imagination. In my game Pentlanders make extensive use of carts and even some wagons to carry yurts and religious paraphernalia as mobile shrines.

    I disagree with the argument about no wood being available in the steppes of Pent. Trees will be found near rivers and streams and where the topography of the land allows for the accumulation of rare water in the aquifer near the surface.  Now trees would definitely be a limited resource and thus Pentans might be pretty put out if lunar caravans took trees for their own use, but I do not think that no trees would be available to the caravan. With a supply of spare wheels and dried wood, plus time to dry and cure Pentan wood, a caravan with wagons and carts could make the journey in good form. Even if they had to cannibalize a wagon or two for spare wood.

    Something which I neglected to mention in my earlier posts was that about 15% of the wagons used are actually flat-bottomed boats filled with cargo and carried on wheeled frames. These boats are used by the caravan for crossing rivers and ferrying cargo and dismantled wagon/carts across major water obstacles. Without such boats transiting the rivers of Pent would be nearly impossible as fords could not be counted upon to be passable on a regular basis. Many of the carts are wood-framed wicker carts like those of terrestrial Ancient Elam and thus easily transportable across a river. The non-boat wagons are more robust affairs but are designed to be easily dismantled and reassembled much like terrestrial Assurian wagons and heavy chariots were. 

    So if the argument is a cultural or religious argument against wagons/carts and draught animals, I'm all ears. But arguments based on the impossibility of using wagons/carts are less persuasive in my mind since 'human' ingenuity is a powerful force in the Lunar gestalt apparently. 'Human' is used to connote all sentient races in Genertela, not just humans.

    I am now in the process of re-engineering the caravan. I will scale it up to a degree as per suggestions above. But, in order to slow the caravan down to conform to the minimal biennial constraint I think wagons will have to be part of the equation, or the caravan could easily complete a round trip in two seasons and thus one year. If someone can demonstrate a sound cultural or religious reason for excluding them then fine; I will be convinced. But then I will have to find another anchor to slow the caravans down. Any suggestions on such alternative inhibitors to fast movement would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers and thank you for your guidance.


    • Like 2
  16. Jajagappa:

    Thanks for your references and for your excellent source-based guidance.

    Roko Joko:

    Those are great ideas and suggestions which you have shared. Thank you so much!

    Thanks again to Metcalph, M Helsdon and the comical Iskallor for your insights and good humour.

    Cheers again.


  17. Wow! There is great information here. Lots for me to think about. 

    My initial idea was that the caravan would be run by Red-Hairs and that attached to the caravan would be other smaller merchants tagging along for protection and guidance. The Molari-Sor have sent a small merchant group with a capable but ultimately potentially expendable member of the family to oversee the caravan. Three Red-Hair merchant houses form the core of the caravan and one house in particular is in charge of the caravan. This is augmented by smaller merchant houses, one Orayan and two from First Blessed. In addition there are two Lokarnos merchant houses from Yutthuppa and Good Shore participating. Finally there are some few independent merchants tagging along. All non-Red-Hair merchant houses and merchants must agree to pay a fee dependent on the value of their cargo and also agree to a one-way profit sharing scheme as well. The Red-Hairs provide all of the mounted scouts, guides and about 70% of the mounted guards. The other merchants provide about 30% of the mounted guards and all of the foot guards for the caravan. Additional guards, scouts or escorts are recruited from local Pentlanders as the caravan passes through their areas of influence. Adventurers, travellers, and others make up about 2% of the caravan. The caravan has about 90 heavy wagons with six-horse teams, an equal number of two-horse carts and about 600 pack animals including sables, mules and horses. There are about 60 heavy cavalry of Red-Hair stock and about 140 light skirmishing cavalry of Red-Hairs. There are also about 80 cavalry provided by the other merchants (20 HAC, 30 MC and 30 LC). There are also about 120 foot guards mostly LHI and LMI. Foot guards are about 50% missile troops and about 50% spear armed melee troops. There is a small contingent of powerful magical specialists.

    Thus the caravan has approximately 90 wagons, 90 carts, 1400 draft and pack animals, 300 military mounts, 1200 food animals, and about 1300 people in the caravan. The Red-Hairs have also hired two giants (10M and 7M) as heavy lifting capacity for un-bogging carts and wagons, clearing obstacles, to provide longer range heavy missile capability and to generally intimidate potential foes.

    Thanks to all above for your ideas and suggestions. I will now begin to rethink the caravan and make appropriate changes.

    Cheers and good gaming.


    • Like 4
  18. Metcalph:

    Thank you for the reference from Vol. II of the Guide. I had missed that one! 

    M Helsdon:

    OK. I guess they will stay in the Kingdom of Ignorance as they winter over in the East. No Kralorela for the party unless they wish to gamble their lives on covert penetration and travel.


    LOL!  Alas, I run a RuneQuest II/III game so 7W is sort of irrelevant. The PC's look nothing like Kraloreli nor do they speak the language, so I think they will fall short on the disguise and subterfuge spectrum. 

    So, does anyone have any ideas about the other questions in my OP?

    Thanks to all for your generous guidance.

    Cheers and good gaming.


  19. Metcalph and M Helsdon:

    Thanks for your help in seemingly eliminating the east-southeastern route. I have the G2G and have read that but did not conclude it was the exclusive route. Now I may know better if I get an explicit conformation of the exclusivity of this one destination. I guess I was not clear in my previous posting - my apologies. Is that the only place that the Lunar caravans go? Do they penetrate further south into Kralorela itself? In the Guide it talks about foreigners having to spend a year in defacto quarantine in the south (Lur Nop) if they arrive by ship but if I remember correctly it mentions somewhere (I can't recall where) that this does not apply to foreigners who come with caravans in the north. Am I mistaken or is this true? If true, does that mean the caravans move south from Jangi-Shar through the Kingdom of Ignorance and into Kralorela proper?

    My apologies once again for any lack of clarity I have caused.

    Cheers and good gaming.


  20. Jon Hunter: 

    I really like the giants and twisted pseudo-giants which you have created. You have very interesting ideas and a gift for creativity. Your creations have depth and nuance which makes them both fascinating and attractive - even the most twisted, corrupted or reprehensible ones! Thank you for sharing these wonders of your imagination. They make an old RuneQuest junkie pine for the halcyon days when he played and refereed in Balazar, the Elder Wilds and Garsting so very long ago. Well done, sir.

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Rod Robertson.

  21. To the wise Magi of Glorantha:

    I have some questions about the trans-Pent caravans which travel from Oraya Sultanate to the East. 

    1) Are these caravans homogeneous groups specifically created by the Molari-Sor Clan and run by Redlands agents, guides and guards? Or are they more heterogeneous corporations of independent Etyries and Lokarnos merchant houses which band together under the banner of the Molari-Sor Clan? Can Argan Argar and Issaries merchants participate in some capacity?

    2) Do these caravans hire unaffiliated mercenary guards or are they guarded by Redlanders and the private guards of the merchant houses involved?

    3) Are Yara Aranis cult members allowed/encouraged to join such caravans as protectors from the horse nomads or are they considered an unnecessary provocation to the Pentlanders?

    4) What route do these caravans take? Is it Palbar to Ha'ar Za'al to Red Hair Place then east-northeast over the Gork Hills (if that's what they're called that far north), then east-southeast to Kralorela or east-northeast to the Kingdom of ignorance? It's the last leg that I am confused about. Where do they cross the mountains and where do they go from there? Finally, how far into Kralorela do the caravans travel?

    5) What foes and allies are likely to be met along the way? Foes - wild beasts, Redland bandits, hostile Pentlanders, Trolls and trollish horrors like Dehori, Gagarthi horsemen, hostile Hsunchen peoples, Chaos bands, Giants, Huan To and their ghoulish hosts, Kralorelan bandits, far-ranging Praxians? Others? Allies - Redlanders, Pentlanders, friendly/benign Hsunchen peoples, Wind People, Kralorelans? Others?

    Thanks in advance for any guidance which you can offer. It will be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers and good gaming.


  22. JAA:

    The PDF's are only a starting point. It is your creative impulse which will breathe life into Glorantha. While Greg Stafford was the Cosmic Egg which spawned this wondrous world we all share and enjoy, it has grown and been enriched by all who play in it. It is the product of the I Thought, We Win nurturing which almost three generations of gamers and fans have poured into this magnificent cosmos. So, while canon and orthodoxy may be important to some, creativity and imagination are the forces which will drive the bubble in which the Lonely Lozenge floats up out of the void of chaos and infinite possibility. You make Glorantha now, so take up the mantle of creation and cry, "Ecce Omnia! Fiat Verum Gaudium!".

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Rod Robertson.

  23. Davecakes:

    Wow! You make me almost want to drink the crimson kool-aid! Lunar philosophy may be flexible and elastic enough to make room for religious intolerance and domination under the aegis of inclusiveness, ruthless exploitation of the conquered under the banner of social correction, liquidation of uncooperative or philosophically challenging populations as moral sanitation, promotion of destructive chaos and disorder in the service of imperial hegemony and growth, harnessing demonic powers as an ethical instrument of state power and necrotic self-pruning on a grand, societal scale to suit the needs of the chosen few. But somehow you make it seem ethically and morally consistent and in its grand design, ultimately benign!

    That is the essence of the grand occlusion of the Lunar Way. If one is "we" or "us" then the "I" is irrelevant and personal responsibility for personal actions goes out the window. If all is done in the service of "Us" then millions of "I's" don't matter and can be swept away with the wave of a hand and those millions smeared upon the imperial regalia like an anointing oil, or a ghoulish jam. Isn't that the exact opposite of the lesson of the I Fought, We Won philosophy? Behold the renaissance of the Wakboth and Sedenya/Gbaji/Nysalor is its harbinger. Behold the renaissance of the Wakboth and Argrath/Harrek/Arkat is its harbinger. Heroes of illumination arise and nature revolts. Illumination is the void and the darkness made palatable by illusion and delusion/occlusion. Sevening is surrendering to the seven deadly sins and embracing the wicked way as the righteous path.

    Woe to the world, Glorantha is doomed!

    Cheers and good gaming.


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