Thot

7 hours ago, g33k said:

I don't think things are as dire for the magic types as others suggest.  You have to presume the Bad Guys are reasonably smart, reasonably adaptable.  Sure, they're unfamiliar with just how deadly modern firepower can be; but they will learn...

I expect that the Evil Empire will experience a large amount of early success, overrunning civilian populations/etc (depending on where their Gates open -- if it's in an existing conflict-zone, maybe not so much!!!).  They will get a nasty shock when they first encounter our world's "modern military" and presumably suffer defeat after defeat... until they adapt.  Since they have faced dozens/hundreds/thousands of other worlds, adapting to the local rules of magic & tech will be par for the course, for them.  This may be a worse instance of "the tech problem" than they have faced, but the basic issue of "figuring out what works best in THIS case" is their standard military doctrine.

As to some specifics...

Remember invisibility:  handwave that it covers the entire EM spectrum (no reason to think it DOESN'T, as it's usually taken to be proof vs infra- and ultra-visions), and -- voila! -- instant anti-radar stealth.  Also, screaming hordes of orc barbarians are MUCH more effective -- even against automatic weapons -- if 5 min's before they start their charge, they are preceded by a Silence'd / Invisibility'ed squads of goblin assassins (or by incorporeal spirits, who attck/disable mentally!) .  By the same token, magical stuff should be virtually-impossible to defend against, because Magic.  I mean, sure a spell that just "hits hard" will bounce off a main battle tank or even a mere APC... but a spell that "ignores armor" will ignore all that tank-armor, too!

Also:  realize that ENOUGH screaming hordes will overwhelm any firepower:  you've got 2 machine-gun nests with overlapping fields of fire and a total killing-ground, each nest stocked with cases of ammo?  Gee, so sorry for you...  They have ONE MILLION willing-to-die troops who are going to take those machine-gun nests.  10 minutes into the battle, you're out of ammo with 25,000 dead on the field before you, but you've barely scratched the attacking force...

Cold-drakes can be just as dangerous as fire-breathers, and don't show as targets vs. heat-seeking systems.

Magic that is line-of-sight and auto-effect -- magically super-effective -- will be NASTY surprises for military forces.

***

Don't forget other magic, either -- why bother "questioning" or even "torturing" a captive for information?  Just read their mind, or summon a possessing spirit who can consult the helpless host-mind and answer using their body... and then "escape" back to their original military, possessed, and wreak havoc as a turncoat!

Invisible mage-spies, who can find top leaders, "Sleep" them, teleport them away to be mind-read (or possessed) and teleport them back without anyone the wiser...  I mean, "Evil Empire."  They have GOT to know all about suppressing rebels, co-opting their enemies, etc.

Last but not least:  what happens when the Evil Empire begins to train with & use captured high-tech gear?

So you'd actually say standard BRP magic and sorcery would suffice?

21 minutes ago, 1d8+DB said:

So the sinister warlord of the Evil Empire is not stupid: he has had  his agents on this world for some time, and what they've reported  of  helicopter gun-ships, smart weapons,  and tactical nukes has made him cautious.  Instead of the over-whelming assault that is his usual plan,  he has opted to engineer a near-apocalyptic conflict between global powers; in the chaos that follows the world would be easy pickings.

That is a beautiful and plausible idea, but not what I'd want to do with this. When you are an evil overlord and have conquered hundreds or thousands of worlds, each with their own type of magic, their own strengths and weaknesses, and their own strategy and tactics, then I would assume that neither casualties nor raffinesse are terribly important. Most likely, the initial assault will not even be carried out by the Emperor himself, but some under-underling, who will of course be sacked and turned into an undead as reward for his first failure. They will just be used to roll over an equally equipped foe with superior numbers, and the reconnaissance they do will probably usually be "reconnaissance by main task force".

Which has, of course the advantage that our heroes actually have a chance to figure it all out and save the day, the week, the month, possibly even liberate other peoples from subjugated worlds and that we have clear-cut enemies.

It seems I will have to do my own magic system to at least offer some fun counter to modern military weaponry for a fantasy civilization?

I just did a basic calculation based on a few known weapons from the BGB:

From these results, it seems that about 150 Joules of muzzle energy are 1 point of maximum damage, with numbers being a lot less clear for average and minimum numbers.

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

You will probably need to figure out a way to prevent modern heavy weaponry from working.

Hah, that would be easy, wouldn't it.

Unfortunately, that is not an option for what I want to do. As I wrote, this is supposed to be military SF in tone (even though the opponents are fantasy-sourced), and for that, I cannot take away the players' and their allies' most important tools.  (I mean, imagine that, you build your character as a soldier proficient in firearms, and then those very skills are made useless by GM fiat. Not cool.)

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Dragons aren't quite so difficult to deal with if you  are in a supersonic jet fighter equipped with heat-seeking missiles that can shoot the thing down while still a couple of miles away.

Yup, and AAA tanks like the Gepard or the Shilka will shred anything flying with fantasy tech or magic, like dragons or cloudships, into pieces even through layers of clouds at night.

Looking at the two actual magic systems in the BGB (magic and sorcery), there are a few things that could help the invaders, such as

1. invisibility (which I would rule to protect from radar and infrared in addition to normal sight)
2. teleportation (firearms are basically useless when the enemy melee fighters teleport between you and your allies, as any shot will also hit your own people)
3. Summoned creatures (many of which are immune or less vulnerable to firearms)

But I have a feeling that with these three alone, it could get a bit dull for the players, so more options would be nice. As the evil invaders have conquered many (as in hundreds or thousands of) worlds, their servants may use various different magic systems.

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

 I don't think the normal magic system in BRP is going to be able to offset the differences in firepower. A 15D6 tank gun is pretty much a autokill even on a giant or dragon. You will probably need to use one of the more powerful powers systems (sorcery or superpowers) to be able to ramp up the magical defenses enough. 

Ah,you mean a superpower-based "magic" system? I'll have to look into that. I know GURPS and Hero systems can do it that way, but I haven't studied BRP's rules options for such a thing yet. Thanks for that tip!

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

You might  want to consider having fantasy creatures have some sort of detrimental effect on high tech. For instance, maybe they can't be detected with modern radar, sonar, IR imaging and so forth, and therefore can't be locked onto or tracked. Or maybe they even warp reality a bit around then, scrambling or knocking out high tech in a fashion similar to an EMP burst. 

 

Another possibility might be to make heavy use of those creatures than cannot be harmed by normal weapons. If could really scare the PCs if they open up they spray a bunch of werewolves with machinegun fire, artillery barages, and even call in an air strike and the blasted things get up unharmed and keep coming.

Those are very cool ideas!

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

 

But however you do it, you are definitely going to need to address modern firepower.

Quote

 

Obviously.

Thanks, I own the BGB (and various setting-specific BRP stuff). My question is more geared towards magic systems recommendations that would even the odds a bit.

Specifically because I don't want Reign-Of-Fire-like implausibility.

Hm, reading the above... is there a more-or-less direct conversion formula for impact energy in joules to BRP weapon damage? Or a table of some kind?

Well, then I'll have to replace lovecraftian gods with more traditional fantasy-type evil gods. 

To avoid any confusion: The tone of such a campaign as described in the OP will be more like military SF. You know, MASSIVE military invasion involving plate-armored evil undead fighters, dragons, wizards, and hordes of cannibalistic axe-swinging orc barbarians.

Really? Awesome! Sounds like stuff worth a license... got to check that out, thanks!

Edit: From what I can read, no, not all, not even close... though those Laundry Fles seem interesting, they are utterly different stuff.

Any suggestions on how to implement such a thing as described in the OP with BRP? Particularly, what magic types are most suited to countering modern weapons technology?

An idea for a campaign (setting) is forming in my mind for which I'd like to read your ideas on how to do it with BRP:

It is our modern world of ca. 2016 that, through magically created interdimensional portals, is being invaded by a particularly evil, evil multidimensional fantasy empire - led by a necromancer king, supported by all the types of evil people fantasy has to offer: Orc chieftains, complete with various types of semi-intelligent war beasts, undead of all sorts (of course), evil wizards, demon summoners, dragons, priests of evil gods (who may seem a bit lovecraftian of a more traditional fantasy-evil-god-type), subjugated 'good' people, and so on. Their technology, initially, is at about rennaissance level, but they will have various types of magic at their disposal that still have to select (suggestions welcome) and that should sort of even the odds against a defending world that has tanks, war jetplanes, automatic weapons and all the modern tools at its disposal.

The invaders have done this whole "conquer a new world" thing many times before, but of course never against one so advanced. They have about a billion (nine zeroes) warriors at their disposal, from many, many worlds, can resurrect dead with various means and are determined to conquer our world regardless of any initial casualties.

What are your thoughts?

On 3.11.2016 at 1:00 AM, Simlasa said:

Stargate? Supernatural? True Blood?

 

Good examples. StarGate would be particularly excellent in my personal opinion, but I believe the franchise is in limbo somehow, with no one being able to make negotiations for it.

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Um.  But the numbers on Twilight (at #1) are the size of #2 + #3 combined.  So while I don't actually care for the line myself, it's clearly the "best" choice.  

And so far as I can tell, "Underworld"  _IS_   WoD  (there was even a lawsuit).

 

The differences between oWoD and Underworld are vast, both in tone and in the origin story.

A good license would be something that's currently a TV show, because TV shows are much like RPG campaigns, so that is the easiest port.  A good approach would thus be something that is successful on TV currently - or even stuff that is a bit older, but popular with the streaming services.