Gregory M

On 7/21/2023 at 4:28 AM, davecake said:

(and written some of my own, which should make it to the JC eventually).

I'm really, really eager to read that !

For those who might be interested, here are the deities listed in The Prosopaedia who belong to either the Doraddi or the Fonritian pantheon.

Underlined names correspond to deities related to Artmal and the Veldang (information of importance to my campaign).

The name of some deities is followed by another name in brackets : it is the equivalent deity in another pantheon according to the Godlearners.

In the Fonritian pantheon, an asterisk indicates the "Glorious Ones", i.e. the "new gods" that Garangordos wanted to symbolize, or manifest, the ancient deities of the Doraddi pantheon.

I have a few hesitations, in italics, which correspond to the questions I asked in my first message (see above).

 

Doraddi pantheon

Afidisi

Agi

Aleshmara (Asrelia)

Amuron

Aranea

Artmal

Balumbasta (Lodril)

Baraku (Orlanth)

Basmol

Bolongo

Bredjeg (Umath)

Chermata (Lokarnos / Issaries)

Cronisper

Dama

Enjata Mo

Famorde (Maran Gor)

Faranar (Ernalda)

Hon Hoolbiktu

Horned Man

Jarkaru the Indigo Conqueror

Jmijie

Kendamalar

Keraun

Langamul

Mikyh

Miroune ? (Babeester Gor)

Mwara

Nomiama

Noruma

Nyanka

Old Gods

Pamalt

Plant Brothers

Qualyorni (Moorgarki)

Rasout

Sedaia

Serartamal

Sikkanos

(Siver ?)

Tadarida (Ty Kora Tek)

Tamakderu

Vangono

Varama

Veldara

Yanmorla

 

Fonrit

Abalibost* (Rasout)

Abdamedric* (Vangono)

Aininlahay* (Yanmorla)

Alakhainas* (Sikkanos ?)

Artmal

Baraku (Orlanth)

Bendaluza* (Cronisper)

Bredjeg (Umath)

Chermata (Lokarnos / Issaries)

Chouanaibos* (Jmijie)

Darleester the Noose

Echeklihos* (Nyanka)

El Jazuli* (Aleshmara)

Enjata Mo

Ernamola

Famorde (Maran Gor)

Galaborib* (Enjata Mo)

Garangordos* (Pamalt)

Gark the Calm

Hungry Goddess

Ikadz

Jarkaru the Indigo Conqueror

Jokotu* (Bolongo)

Jraktal the Tap

Lallamimou* (Keraun)

Lamsabi

Lohanasen* (Tamakderu)

Malubadu* (Siver ?)

Mandakusour* (Noruma)

Miroune (Babeester Gor)

Mouladehas* (Balumbasta)

Mwara

Old Gods

Ompalam

Pamalt

Selarn

Seseine

Tenoarpesas* (Kendamalar then Varama)

Tentacule

Tolat (Shargash)

Tondiji

Two Brothers of War (Humakt & Zorak Zoran)

Udayankos* (Dama)

Uleria

Zienbeski* (Faranar)

For the purposes of my campaign in Pamaltela, I need to list all the deities from the Fonrit and Doraddi pantheons mentioned in The Prosopaedia. The book clarifies and specifies many things without having to dive into the complexities of Revealed Mythologies. It's a great book! 😍

I'll be posting a little summary document about it soon. For now, I have a few questions. Let me make it clear from the outset that these are questions about really minor details. This is nitpicking, due to the fact that I'm trying to be really clear about Pamaltela. 😅

First, two questions about the "Glorious Ones". In Fonrit, Garangordos created an imitation of Pamalt's Necklace, the "Glorious Ones" (The Prosopaedia p. 47), where each of Garangordos' "companions" became a deity symbolizing one of the Ancient Gods of Pamalt's pantheon.
Hence my Question 1: The Prosopaedia does not specify which of the Old Gods is symbolized by Alakhainas (p. 4). Is it, instead of Ganleiriti (not mentioned in the book), Sikkanos, as suggested by Revealed Mythologies p. 55? ("Only Ganleiriti refused to take part, saying he did not want to be part of this new civilized life. He departed with his family to go south and seek the forefathers of the people. In his place, Garangordos named his brother, Alakhainas. Afterwards, all agreed that Ganleiriti was Sikkanos.") Or does Alakheinas symbolize another Old God? And Question 2: Malubadu is presented, in The Prosopaedia, as the Fonrit deity who symbolizes "Silver". Typo? Revealed Mythologies is about "Siver" (pp. 55, 61 and 65), one of Pamaltela's Old Gods, a healer god.

Question 3: I find it strange that Miroune (p. 86), who was identified with Babeester Gor by the God Learners in Revealed Mythologies, belongs to the Fonrit pantheon and not to the Doraddi one. Typo?

Question 4: I discover the existence of Sedaia, "the Queen of Kothar" (p. 108): "goddess of langiappe, a pseudocereal grown in the oases of Kothar". The oases of Kothar? In Jolar, I can understand, but it didn't seem to me that oases in Kothar were a notable feature of the region. Guide to Glorantha p. 590: "[Kothar is] A wide verdant plain, cut by clear rivers and covered with teeming herds. The natives consider it to be paradise. It is well-watered, and oasis centers do not exist here. Much of Kothar is savannah, covered with widely spaced, scattered trees." So, oases or not in Kothar?

Finally, Question 5 (high level nitpicking, you've been warned): in The Prosopaedia, "Hykim and Mikyh" p. 60 doesn't belong to pamaltelan pantheons, but "Mikyh" (alone, p. 85) belongs to the Doraddi panheon. Does this (apparent) contradiction mean anything?

Glorantha is a bubble of Chaos in an infinity of Law.

From a non-genertelan point of view, who or what is Arachne Solara, and what has she done?

I didn't know the Mythras Generator, thank you for that great discovery. Although I play Heroquest, it's still a useful source of inspiration!

Artmal, as a god, is associated to the Fate rune (Guide to Glorantha). Why? What does it say about the nature of Artmal's cult, and about worship?

@Jeff To what extent can your text apply to the Dorradi in the Plains of Pamalt? Some of the rites you describe, involving Humakt for instance, may have an equivalent with Vangono, and they have their own stories of IFWW, rites about the Firefall and so on... But do they also celebrate the Lightbringers' return?

"The future of Glorantha", the last chapter from the Glorantha book of HeroWars (2000), contains these lines :

Quote

The ALDRYAMI want their primal forest back. They long for the green leafy expanses and untrodden fields of the Green Age, before the mostali or uz devised ways to destroy the trees, and before human beings infested them. They have been saving Elf seeds for a long time now, and they are deciding where to plant them to raise an army. Expeditions have been sent from each of the Great Trees, and are trying to get to distant forests with strange parcels and secret messages. Serandarn the Ironwood, the greatest elf hero alive, marched from Teshnos across the desert to lead an army.

Never heard of this Serandarn guy before. Any other reference somewhere ? Nothing on Glorantha Wiki, nothing in the Guide...

Anybody talked about Pamaltela ?

1- Kendamalar is the Sun God of the Ancient Gods period, one of the Esiti. During the Demon Period, "five powerful and evil shamans get together to concoct an evil plan. They captured Kendamalar, the Pure One, and killed him and made a drink of his blood." (Revealed Mythologies (RM) p51)

2- In the Now Period, there is a New Sun, Varama. RM says p53 : "Varama (i.e.- “Yelm”), it is still the essence of Kendamalar", and p66 : "Varama. Sun Spirit of the Now Period. After the Demon Period, Pamalt called Noruma to rekindle the ancient fires. Kendamalar was reborn, and was called Varama."

3- But... it would be too easy. 🙂 RM adds (p53) : "The Doraddi say that the current Sun fell because of pride, for he thought that he could live without the help of everyone else in the world. He lost his powers, and is now a slave (...) The Doraddi can always depend on him, because he has no choice. During the Artmali Period [i.e. before Kendamalar was killed during the Demon Period], Varama-by-another-name acted out that pride and fell. He was likely held prisoner by Vovisibor. Note that the five evil shamans were only able to kill a God due to his own wrong actions, which weakened him and made him vulnerable to their powers." Hmm... Who was killed by the five shamans ? Kendamalar (see point 1) or "Varama-by-another-name" who is not Kendamalar since, as says a footnote p53, "Despite the obvious assumptions, [Varama-by-another-name] is not Kendamalar, but a different, lesser sun god who inherited his role after his murder."

Many Suns in Pamaltela, too.

58 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I don't quite see how Illumination is associated with cycles or the return of dead things.

You're right. My feeling was that moons, both red and blue, through notions like cycle, resurrection... always associate opposite concepts: destroyed (Death) then born again (Life), Underworld/Darkness and Sky/Light... so that moon magic (whatever the moon) seems to me related to illumination "in essence".

I'm trying to imagine what could be a Hero Wars-era metaplot related to the Near Ones, whether they are really illuminated or people just believe it (in so far as Peter Metcalphe thinks they are not truely illuminated).

Illumination is usually associated with overcoming antagonisms, reconciling things that are normally irreconcilable, and even accessing dragon mysticism or playing with Chaos, as Lunars do. In the Plains of Pamalt, doesn't that lead sooner or later to the artmali legacy?

After all, Artmal is the son of the Blue Moon, and moon-related magic is strongly associated with Illumination, precisely because it's about cycles, return of dead things, mash-up of opposites and so on.

The Friends of Pamalt could be Doraddi leading mystical investigations with or alongside the Veldang to reactivate the seminal friendship between Doraddi and Artmali (see the myth of Afidisa) and/or steal their secrets. Their goal would be to reconnect with the magic of the ancient Artmali, although it had been tainted by Chaos at some point (but that doesn't stop illuminated - or supposedly illuminated - magicians). Thus a high-level tidal magic of the Blue Moon would help to recreate the Blue Fire Sea, extinguish the fire of the Nargan and submerge its chaotic threats. Or the Near Ones could try to summon a high-level water magic using the Sky River Titan, father of Artmal, for the same reasons.

Could be related to a mystical way / attempt to recreate or get access to the lost unity of Langamul ?

Never heard about the "Near Ones" or  "Friends of Pamalt" before reading The Glorantha Sourcebook ("Illumination", pp. 149-150). Nothing in the Guide / Revealed Mythologies / Glorantha Wiki. [EDIT: "Near Ones" were first mentioned in Heroquest Glorantha p. 203.] I'm running a Kothar / Kresh campaign and interested by all the theories / ideas you'll share! 😉

Greg, eighteen years ago, you wrote these words in the Glorantha book of HeroWars:

"Whatever the reason might be, there is the truth: a good story can make you feel better. That is the power of myth."

And that was the power of Greg Stafford.

Thank you.

Condolences to your family and friends, all around this world.

23 hours ago, Ian Cooper said:

I don't actually like the separation that exists today between states of adversity and consequences of defeat. They should be the same thing.

Good point !

Thanks for clarification.

HQ:G p84 says:

Quote

As is appropriate to a climactic confrontation, victories in this system skew toward greater decisiveness: the winner never scores less than a Minor Victory.

Is that correct ? Because the table just above that text clearly shows that a "marginal" victory level does exist...

Page 270, Nangrel paragraph, line 4 : "Naragros" instead of "NaraNgros".

5 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

Umm they killed Inigo Montoya's father?

LOL I had not thought about it, I have not seen the movie for a too long time. At least I'll be ready when the reference appears in the game, I'm sure one of the players will have it. ;-)

The Guide to Glorantha mentions the Six-fingered lineages among the Doraddi from Kothar, more precisely in the Ballesteros area.

Do we know anything else about these lineages?

Some years ago I proposed this tool for newbies in the gloranthan fanzine Rule One by R. Robertson : myth cards.

Oh, ok, sorry !

The Annotated Rulebook PDF is in english, not in french...

5 hours ago, metcalph said:

I divide the Artmali into three stages (...)

Thank you for these cool ideas Peter Metcalphe!

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

I don't see any evidence or need for a science-fantasy flavor here.

Ok, thank you.

My reference to a science-fantasy flavor is based on the idea that time on Pamaltela is running backward (Sandy Petersen in Forgotten secrets of Glorantha) : ancient civilizations there were highly advanced, urbanized... I thought it could indicate a high level of technological development.

I had the Feldichi from Dorastor in mind, too, with their strange runic machines.