Ian_W

Hauling this back to Chalana Arroy, the fact that CA cultists don't have a 'except for Chaos' exemption on 'Do not kill' shows that she accepts chaos as part of the world (cf 'probably Illuminated by Rashoran in God Time').

Now, among fanatical anti-chaos cultures, CA gets a pass on that, IMO because they haven't thought it through properly, the Goddess' important role in things like the Lightbringer Quest, and the practical fact that her people are the difference between life and death in so many fanatically anti-chaos cultures.

But - the Lunars don't. Not all Lunar cults are associated with Chaos, but all Lunar cults accept the existence of those Lunar cults who are. They've answered 'Us or the Other' with 'We are all us'.

Note bad Orlanthi would go 'Oh, the chaotic parts of the Lunar Empire, yes they deserve to be attacked, and must be. But there arent any Chaos Worshippers at *our* Seven Mothers temple, or *our* Eytries trade post that brings us gin and other good things from the Heartlands. They are okay - they arent Bad Lunars'.

On 12/6/2021 at 3:48 AM, Joerg said:

What does it take to make a Lunar cultist chaotic? Accepting a Chaos Gift, voluntarily or not, sure. But below that?

Storm Bulls and good Orlanthi would reply 'Being a Lunar cultist' because the Red Moon involves accepting Chaos as a legitimate part of the world.

Any answer more sophisticated than that *is* Illuminated at best.

On 12/5/2021 at 10:49 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

for a gm yes, maybe for a player, but imagine in glorantha. Do they know that people are "built" with /by runes. Do they know that this guy with dex 18 (3d6) is non chaotic but this one with 16 (6d6) is chaotic

how can they know (if they have never meet before) if this guy whith a bull head is a minautor and this one is a "civilized" broo ?

Storm Bull teaches Sense Chaos.

Everyone else figures it out from context, and, yes, mistakes are made.

Note other cultures see Chaos, Darkness and Storm as the same Bad Enemy of Right Order.

Sartar was essentially a King who unified his kingdom with roads and trade, rather than with blood and fire.

Therefore, this is what I'd expect of his successors.

Being a partner in trade. The Commenda contract was a medieval staple - two partners, one of whom sits at home and provides the capital, and one of whom goes on the road and takes the risks. Profits are split 50/50. Note the Prince could do this directly, or via middlemen. Note banditry is traditionally utterly endemic in Orlanthi societies ('They were on Blue Fox land. That makes them Blue Fox merchants ! So we raided them !'), and if you as Prince are providing more security than Orlanthi trade oaths traditionally expect then it'll be more profitable than usual.

Investing in Inns and so on. I would be amazed if the Prince of Sartar isn't a silent partner in Geo's, for example. Note if you buy the land (or rights to build on the land) before you build the road, then suddenly it's so much more valuable.

Cattle loans on extortionate terms have been a staple of Orlanthi cheiftans since Heort was a boy. It's a short step from lending a cow and getting back the first and third calf every season to lending a loom and getting back three baskets of wool and cloth every season.

I don't think enforcing monopolies on Orlanthi is going to go very well, what with their history of rebelling against bad, oppressive kings. Do that at the other end ie negotiate with Belintar that only Royal Caravans can buy silk. Then it's that bastard The Pharoah, not the Prince of Sartar 😉

15 minutes ago, LordNigel said:

Wow, thanks for taking the time to answer my already forgotten post!
Yeah, it sure helps! Every idea and every material is welcome. I really like your suggestions for the "players as enemies" story!

I am currently still GM'ing my GURPS cyberpunk campaign to my group,

Note that 'Our Heroes on defense' also works for them being security/rapid response in a cyberpunk context.

Also, if you are all familiar with the Gurps systems, there are absolutely no reasons you can't use that rules set for Glorantha.

Also, talk to your players, and see if they have suggestions why these people with such different backgrounds would want to stick together.

On 6/13/2021 at 3:27 PM, LordNigel said:

 

In the series of videos I'm watching on youtube, J-M mentions that he created an adventures he calls "Ernalda's Horn of Plenty" (IIRC), where he introduces the players to the concept of HeroQuesting through what he calls "reverse HeroQuesting". The idea is that the Broo are conducting a HeroQuest for their own needs and when the Quest requires an "enemy" to appear, the PCs are summoned to act as the menace agains the Broo. This sounded fascinating to me, but I'd never know how to even begin GM'ing this without proper guidelines.

Regarding Heroquesting in general, you might want to have a look at this - the idea being each magic spell being learnt a lesser heroquest.

http://www.soltakss.com/rune1.html

Regarding Our Heroes being the enemies in a quest, I'd suggest something like this for Orlanthi.

They each get a warning about what is happening, whether in dreams, from an appropriate animal (alynxes acting wierd for orlanthi, storm bull kicking your backside in your dreams and then glaring in the direction you need to go, whatever). They get a short time for preparation - this is where things like cultural support are important, as your uncle lends you a spear, your Significant Other puts a ribbon in your hair, your mother kisses your forehead and wishes you luck and so on (*cough* Arming of Orlanth *cough*).

Note if you are the group actively questing, you can do a more thorough job of preparing ...

Our Heroes then go through several stations, which has them going backwards from the Storm Age to the Fire Age to the Earth Age, which is where the Broo are, trying to nick Ernalda's Horn of Plenty.

So, stage One is the entry to the Storm Age. Do what rapid preparation is needed, then it's time to climb to the peak of a mountian. Winds get higher. Sylphs cluster. Fog cuts off the Sun. Then there's a path down you havent seen before. Perhaps an opportunity to reject a trickster figure giving you a fancy sword (representing the option of rejecting helping your community to get Magic Power from the otherworld), or some similar temptation vs duty.

Stage Two, the Fire Age. Sneaking down the foothills past patrols of Golden-Armed warriors on goldeneye horses with bows and spears and eagles circling them. Violence is an option here, and you could get Glory by fighting these other enemies ... but they are not the ones you should fight.

Stage Three, the Earth Age. Step one could be the forest primaeval, perhaps with the opportunity to get lost forever as a tree spirit distracts. Or perhaps the opportunity to be tempted by the wealth of the Green Age, as you find flowers like gems and trees that bud the purest copper you have seen.

And then there's the Broo, one per Our Hero, digging in the forest trying to find the Horn of Plenty. One per hero, perhaps twisted versions of your own heroes. IMO the key to winning should be the community support from the preparation phase, and fighting like your Gods and people do.

However ... fighting Broo in the Otherworld gets you things like suppurating wounds that won't heal (aka permanent stat loss). 

If Our Heroes win, then Ernalda's Horn of Plenty remains hidden, which means come spring the crops sprout and the cattle and sheep increase.

If Our Heroes lose, or refuse to play or get distracted by wealth, power or glory, then it's going to be a tough winter, and you can pretty much guarantee the local Broo are going to be multiplying and raiding.

Does that help ?

It'd also be possible that the salt changes color according to the seasons - reddish in fire season, blueish in sea season and so on.

4 hours ago, Furry Fella said:

The mechanism is modeling the interactions of 12 seconds for an outcome.

Nope. The mechanism reflected how we really fought in Westrealm in 1978, when Steve Perrin was a fighter in the West, and Paul had just started teaching the snap.

We've moved on since then.

The key is not being lost in the details.

16 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

 

Air is for action, Death is for killing, whether it's rune magic, spirit magic, or sorcery. You augment sorcery with the appropriate rune for the kind of spell.

No.

Sorcery is about Law. Spirit Magic is about Spirit. Dragon Magic is about Beast.

There are several sorts of magic.

21 minutes ago, simonh said:

And we're back to my point on this. In what situations would you not use Law to ensorcel things? If characters are going to do the exact same augment every single time, that's just not a useful or interesting mechanic.

Yes, I do think sorcerers use their connection to the law rune when they cast sorcery spells. I think they do it all the time and it's absolutely fundamental to doing all sorcery. In fact it may not be possible to do sorcery at all without invoking the law rune. The problem is how do we make that interesting? Sorcerers doing a law rune augment every single time they use a sorcery skill just isn't interesting. Better to just assume it's subsumed it into the existing skills and mechanics.

Under RQG rules, you get to augment once per session, ie when it's important. Page 144.

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

From what I can see, having the Law and Spirit Runes only for those purposes renders them inferior to the other runes (ie You could use a Storm Rune for swinging a sword  or a Fire Rune to spot stuff).  You have to give them something else and there we run into problems...

Air is for action. Death is for killing. Fire is for spotting stuff. Law is for sorcery. Spirit is for dealing with spirits. Earth of for surviving. Beast is for animals. And so on.

If you're a herder, then you'll use Beast a lot more.

If you're a Wizard, ensorcelling armor for the fighters that are sent out, then you'll use Law a lot more, because cows are those things that go moo in the markets, right ?

Likewise, a Healer will use Harmony, and so on.

22 minutes ago, simonh said:

 The questions is, to do what? It's all very well saying sorcerers should have the Law Rune and Shamans should have the Spirit Rune, but that only makes sense if you give them a meaningful job to do in the game system and I'm not seeing an obvious gap for them to fill right now.

 

You mean you wouldn't let a Shaman roll against their Spirit rune for assitance on a summoning, or a Wizard role against the Law rune for assistance in a spell ?

Your Glorantha May Vary, but this is my best guesses.

1. Fatleaf is a duck name, so we're basically talking stew made from something with feathers.

2. There's a plant called Fatleaf that is a major source of plant fats (ie like avocado or olives in our world) and that is the core of a stew together with barley,. cabbages, carrots and onions.

32 minutes ago, creativehum said:

You made me curious, so over lunch I looked up some YouTube videos on Quarterstaffs vs. Swords.

It seems as if the staff is often used by holding the back quarter, keeping the reach (which allow more force to be delivered on a swing) or to thrust (to trip, to hit the head). In either case the quarter staff retains a lot of reach and can be shifted to different targets more quickly than a sword.

I'm no expert, and have no interest in defending either staff or sword in this matter... but from what I saw I can certain understand why a quarterstaff might have a quicker SR.

Note that's holding it more or less like it's a two handed sword ...

Depends on technique.

A quarterstaff is essentially a pole weapon without the war-head, and as such it can either thrust for longer distance or it can be swung at somewhat shorter distance.

The rules system ignores this, along with using swords to thrust or cut, feints and a whole lot of other good stuff

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Biturian's trading in Cults of Prax never quite made sense to me

 

 

He has a regular circuit, and that means his trading partners know where he will be at what time of the year, which means they can be there to trade with him.

9 hours ago, styopa said:

Again: Traveller.

There was quite a bit about trade in the LBB, and then when Book 7 came along (Merchant Prince) it became rather interesting and substantive.

 

Trav didnt do trade right until Gurps Traveller: Far Trader

That product was the first one to actually try and answer the question "How much trade is there, from where and to where".

15 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

How about using the secondary weapon to augment the first?

The Mystery Cult skill would be on top of that, to allow a Left-Augment-Right, Right-Augment-Left, Right-Augment-Battle, and Left-Augment--2 Hand Secrets

Its a little munchkin'y, but hey, thats our Arkat

36 minutes ago, styopa said:

If you wanted to get into the weeds of simulation

Trust me, you don't want to do this - for a start, 12 seconds is just about forever in combat, with a tempo allow acting/reacting being about 0.25 seconds for most people.

(Ive been doing historical swordsmanship for about 15 years now, and Im decently good at it).

Sword and shield is two weapons, and there isnt that much difference at parrying with a shield and parrying with a weapon - it's about controlling lines, the initiative or the geometry (depending if you're italian, german or spanish). A "successful parry" could just be about making the attack not happen, as the opponent recognises that going through with the shot they've prepared will just end up with their weapon controlled. You also dont want to go down the rabbit hole of true edge vs false edge parries, and the rest of it

Regarding two weapon fighting, its mostly about using one weapon to open a hole for the other weapon to hit through, ideally with a body fake to put them into false distance or moving the wrong way - in RQQ terms using one of your Sword skills and your Battle skill as assists to push your other Sword skill well over 100% and thereby reduce their active defence

The way Id do it is leave Rules As Written, but have a special cult skill for a Humakt/Jar Eel/Whoever subcult for Two Weapon Fighting to reflect how you can get the two weapons to help each other, including neat stuff like allowing them both to parry a given attack, parrying arrows and parrying without damaging your weapon. This way, you have Mystery Cults that deal with the secrets of hip flicks, back edge motion, control of the line, lying in the speaking window and all that other good stuff without going to deep into the simulationist weeds.

14 minutes ago, Psullie said:

As a GM there are few thing less satisfying than watching thieves become merchants after telling a bunch of PC's after a hard won fight that the 'treasure' amounts to sacks of grain, bolts of silk or some other bulky trade items, ah the gaming potential.

https://wikisaga.hi.is/index.php?title=Egla,_10

Good old Egilsaga ... guy goes to collect tribute and trade and then loots some other merchants/raiders, and gets so much loot he needs to build a boat

Chapter 10

Thorolf in Finmark

In the winter Thorolf took his way up to the fells with a large force of not less than ninety men, whereas before it had been the wont of the king's stewards to have thirty men, and sometimes fewer. He took with him plenty of wares for trading. At once he appointed a meeting with the Finns, took of them the tribute, and held a fair with them. All was managed with goodwill and friendship, though not without fear on the Finns' side.

Far and wide about Finmark did he travel; but when he reached the fells eastward, he heard that the Kylfings were come from the east, and were there for trading with the Finns, but in some places for plunder also. Thorolf set Finns to spy out the movements of the Kylfings, and he followed after to search for them, and came upon thirty men in one den, all of whom he slew, letting none escape. Afterwards he found together fifteen or twenty. In all they slew near upon a hundred, and took immense booty, and returned in the spring after doing this. Thorolf then went to his estates at Sandness, and remained there through the spring. He had a long-ship built, large, and with a dragon's head, fitted out in the best style; this he took with him from the north.

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

No mention of moonboats, I guess there are too few to make a difference.

Back of the envelope numbers here.

Assume an isolated garrison of 100 troops, and a Moonboat can carry 1 ton.

Therefore, thats 10 kilos per man. Assuming something high density, thats maybe a month worth of soup.

6 hours ago, styopa said:

Why not, for heaven's sake, if the players find it enjoyable?

Hell, a goodly chunk of the game Traveller is BASED on that driving much of the characters' peripatetic habits.

Back when Trav was a thing, there was also a game called Runequest that had a supplement called Cults of Prax, that had fluff based around a guy going around buying and selling. A party could either be that guy, or be hired by that guy, or be trying to rob that guy.

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

 

So, with a good enough roll, you could trade grain profitably to grain-exporting Esrolia (outside of the calamity of the Windstop)? (Other than magical seeds for the priestesses of Ezel, or something likewise quest-worthy.)

Absolutely. The grandmother of a certain family always liked black rye bread, and the black rye bread made locally just doesn't work for her. So you know a guy who wants four tons of Jonstown dark rye, delivered to Nochet, because his wife wants get in on her good side.

Alternatively, it's for some specialty beer. And so on.

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Why?  Beast seems perfectly reasonable for trolls.  Just consider some of the variant troll forms like cave trolls or midget slashers (from the old RQ3 Bestiary).

Man plus plant equals elf. Man plus stasis equals dwarf. Man plus darkness equals troll. Man plus beast = beastman.