Monty Lovering

I’ve always had a fondness for Humakt, but the 16-year-old playing a B. Gor in the campaign I’m currently running has made me think again as she plays it to the hilt. Or maybe haft. Cut a great troll in half recently. What else am going to say when she Crits with Slash and does 36 damage?

Axe is the answer. What was the question?
 

On 4/19/2022 at 5:25 AM, davecake said:

These things are currently campaign relevant to me - I’m running an intermittent Sandheart game, and the PCs will often try to form a small (3-4 person wide) shield wall, so issues like this come up often. And I’d like my PCs to have reasons to act like historical troops a bit more when doing so. Of course, attempting to apply tactics used by large military formations in war time to small messy skirmishes is often a bit of a disaster, but that’s half the run - Yelmalion traditionalist and conservative thinking keeps leading them into using the wrong tactics for the job. 
it’s a bit of a running joke that I wanted the PCs in the Sandheart game to be generally less combat effective than average RQG beginning characters for a less heroic, more low level, game, but I didn’t  need to change the rules to accomplish this, just make them Yelmalions (thus saddling them with inappropriate tactics and depriving them of much good combat magic). 
 

A further Gloranthan weirdness is that several of the cults that use hoplite/phalanx tactics refuse to teach sword fighting in any way, which would be rather a problem for hoplites using short swords as a standard back up weapon. Rules wise, this gets  compounded by treating 1H and 2H use of even the same spear as two unrelated weapons. So hoplites etc are likely to be pretty terrible at using anything but their primary weapon. 
 

And then there is the further weirdness of the rules not believing any spear other than a short spear is used one handed*, thus making the 1h long spear that was the primary warriors weapon in the era and area it claims to be focussed on replicating non-existent. *sigh* like several others, I think a 1H long spear approximating the Greek doru is an obvious gap in the rules, and house rule it. 
 

 

* well, the rules do list a lance as a 1h spear, but then in the description says it is used 2H. And this was carried through to the weapons and equipment guide. Also, though it’s obviously a cavalry weapon, nothing in the rules seems to say it can’t be used on foot 🤨 but let’s just skip lightly over all that. There seems to be some confusion between the 2h kontos, which probably could also be used as a sari sea, and the later 1h couched lance. 

I have three sets of rules; coherent line, shield wall, phalanx. The first two are kind of phalanx-lite. And they all use a set of rules for ranked attacks to reflect how many jabby-pointy things are going to be in your face. Did the research and everything.

Haven’t used them more than once (ranked attack rules to allow two PCs with spears in a corridor behind a swordsman to attack person in room attacking swordsman) but it was fun making them. 

I also decided that my Glorantha has stirrups and couched lances, and that judging by 18th and 19th Century cavalry training, lancers learn to use spears one handed in melee as well as the charge, so lance % = 1H spear %, but obviously not the other way round. Sucks if you’re infantry but ain’t it always so.  

On 4/19/2022 at 1:17 PM, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

On page 308 of the RIG says that yelmalio troops use pike in one hand, if that helps!!

 

The Yelmalio cult 
teaches its initiates how 
to use a shield in con-
junction with the Pike skill. 
This is a special exception 
to the rule that a shield 
cannot be used with a two-
handed weapon

It means they have the shield slung around their neck on a strap. Sounds weird but totally a historical thing. 

Chap on the left is kindly demonstrating this as well as illustrating a pikeman without a formation has problems if they don’t chuck it down and draw a secondary weapon. 

Cool thread. 

OK, so I do the following;

I’ve played with SRs to make spears, rapier, etc., faster and reflect speed of strike as well as length as the kinetics are as important as length.  It means brawling weapons have a WSR of 5 but it works because Closing is about more than open sea travel being impossible.

I firmly believe most weapons should be capable of doing only 1HP damage. The idea a dagger can on average take someone average to zero in the chest is silly, let alone great axes doing 9HP on average. So they go 1d3, 1d4, 1d5, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 2d6, 2d8, etc., with two-handed use bumping it up a die, and ‘big’ two handed weapons getting another die. So a long sword (shoot me I’m anachronistic) is 1d8 1H, 1d10 2H, and a great sword is 1d12 with others following a similar pattern.

Weapons that are effective against armour get a +1, and it’s an imperfect and generic ‘best against armour’ but it does mean spear and hammers get that little extra. 

Crushing weapons are 1H Mace, 2H Mace, 1H Hammer, 2H Hammer, with anyone giving 50% of skill in the other. Have wondered if hammers and maces should be different and feel the equivalent of ‘edge alignment’ Is enough of a reason. 

Blades are Dagger, Rapier, Short C/T, Short Slashing,  and then Long C/T, Long Slashing, both in 1H and 2H versions. 50% of skills applies as above. 

Axe is 1H and 2H. 2H includes edged slashing pole arms. 50% of skills applies as above. 

Articulated follows the same pattern.

Quarterstaff is a thing unto itself, as are some other weirder things. 

Spear is 1H, 2H and Pike with same 50% thing. Lance is too, but you have the same skill in 1H Spear as Lance. 

And I am playing with parry modifiers ranging from 1/4 skill for 1H spear which is shit to parry with through 1/2 for hafted weapons like axes which are unwieldy with swords, 2H spears at full. But I think basing HP on the ability of a weapon to deflect a blow (so 1H spear will have less than 2H spear) with separate AP based on durability which get reduced by parrying specials/criticals) is probably better. 

IMG, YGMV, yes it’s crunchy, no my campaign is not combat centric there’s not been a fight beyond a fist fight in a bar in over a month. 
 

And I’m still not happy with my Brawling rules but am getting there. 
 

And that’s not even starting on me making ranged weapons slightly less feeble than they are in RAW, or on Multimissile just making you shoot quicker as I’ve loathed the idea of solidified air arrows for 40 years. 
 

On 3/23/2022 at 3:18 PM, PhilHibbs said:

It does not say that. To me it says that they will join local cults, as long as their chaotic nature doesn't prevent it.

This. 
 

They will join cults where their taint won’t out them. 
 

They won’t join cults where there taint will out them. 

13 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Actually, I think your ideas are a touch to mechanistic real world for me.

I think the question should be - when does the connection between the spirit and the body separate completely?

As I say above, brain death.  It’s mechanistic but it gives you a clear cut answer to some questions, and allows PCs to have a way of taking down extremely powerful Rune Masters. 
 

If it’s mechanistic for a head shot to defeat DI, it’s mechanistic for hitting a skeleton's head to ‘destroy the programming’, or to knock a vampire down. 

13 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Actually, I think your ideas are a touch to mechanistic real world for me.

I think the question should be - when does the connection between the spirit and the body separate completely?

Well  for me brain death. Yes that’s mechanistic. I like that. YGMV which is fine. 

A blow of x3 LHP to the head would maybe prevent DI.

Maybe? Well, a piercing weapon or crushing weapon implies suddent massive penetrating damage to the brain, so nothing left to DI with.

A cutting weapon could well just remove the head, and it's well known that a decapitated head is concious for a few seconds. So, maybe a roll to determine what kind of cut.

Any other killing blow allows time to DI.

As to whether it is appropriate to ask OR whether Humakt would intervene to save the life of someone who has just been decapitated...

Humakt followers do not want death. They are not afraid of death. Two different things. So they can ask, IMG.

And I would say that Humakt is allowed to say "not today".

Pragmatically, no Resurrection is already a big minus, not allowing life-saving DI is a bit too much.

On 3/9/2022 at 3:51 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

You could always run Borderlands at its original date, rather than the standard RQiG date of 1625ST.  Character family history would have to be different but there is an early family history available on Jonstown Compendium for a good price.  That would mean you didnt have to reimagine the Duke's status and also the political  alignments of the tribes.  Altogether a much simpler campaign start.

As for npc stats, not much difference except you should give them appropriate rune magic.  And change the occasional reference to chain mail.  You will find you have to roll some  stats not provided, like STR and SIZ for those ankylosaurs that almost got  Jajagappa's character, but that would have been the case running RQ2 also.

Prax does need a 1625ST update.  But for you to update to include Argrath's 1625 status and the absence of the Lunar Empire would be too much of a project, essentially a 75 percent rewrite.  Something for a team of Glorantha grognards, which I understand is taking years under contract to Chaosium.

The RQ3 Borderlands is essentially the RQ2 Borderlands.  Same with Big Rubble.  Don't think you need those old updates.  

This is basically what I have done. PCs are Kenstone Islanders, orphaned by a Wolf Pirate raid and fostered in one of the petty baronies in the March. Ejected from their roles as members of the baron's mercenaries when the old baropn dies, and his son returns from Refuge with his cronies from the flesh pots and gambling dens.

They get hired by Daine as bodyguards to accompany him and Jezra to the duke's domain, as she has been recalled from her studies in Jonstown after disgracing herself.

This was with a bunch of RQ newbies, so it allowed them to be realistically clueless about much of the outside world, having grown up in a backwater, and meant that they would be focused on making their way in the outside world as they had no clan or family to fall back on.

We did all of Borderlands apart from Condor Crags and Goon Orta, which I am keeping in my back pocket for if they have to flee Pavis, which is where they are now, as they had pacified much of the land successfully, and after the first caravan of settlers arrived, the Lunar army escort was being garrisoned in the domain, leaving them with little to do in the duke's employ.

You basically just thrown Rune Points at the characters in the Source material and improvise.

They are now in Pavis, having escourted Jezra to resume her studies there at the start of 1616 ST, and we're doing Pavis and the Big Rubble in the original time setting.

TBH I vastly prefer the original setting, with a Lunar army of occupation, and no massive heroic events or hyper-level NPCs in the mix. Doubt I will do the Cradles scenario as it seemed to be a roll play fest rather than role play.

They are currently having to figure out what the hell to do with the map of Balastor's Barracks they picked up in the Rabbit Hat Farm scenario I put them through enroute to Pavis, having realised the a/ it might not be accurate, b/ if it is then the Pavis cultists and Lunars are interested in it, with the risks and opportunities this entails, c/ if it is, then they don't just turn up in swords and armour, they need to have a fully-equipped expedition to do the digging and hauling d/ that the Rubble is full of people who can coitus you up just for being in their territory, let alone if they know what you are after or might have spent the past week digging up and finding, e/they will need to enlist skilled help to find the surface entrance, let alone hunt to carry shit, which means they have to decide who to trust, f/ that it might not just be a really cool magic item they can use or sell without questions being asked, possibly with edged weapons, but actually something which might use them...

This would probably be a Monday or a Tuesday starting a 12:00 or 13:00 CET for three hours or so.

I would likely run a mostly RQG game starting off with some classic content and then maybe moving on to newer scenarios (essentially re-running the campaign I have been running with the group I IRL RPG'd with before COVID) - that is unless the group that forms to play with me were so familiar with old stuff it would be better to skip over it.

I could be persuaded to go really retro and run something RQ3-ish.

This would run until I get a full-time job that makes an afternoon slot impossible.

I would think five or six players is a max, but multiple PC's per player might be an option.

Just so you know, IMG the published mythic canon is what the various religions tell you. Supernatural explanations might exist because human story-telling fills any vacuum in actual knowledge. Histories might just be a way of making the storyteller's people look good. Magic is real, the gods are powerful, but they are not omniscient or omnipresent with all that that entails. This might be a total turn-off to some and catnip to others so it's best to get it out there at the outset. 

Anyway, respond here if you're interested and let me know your experience and preferences for playing styles, and we can then move over to discuss the game in Roll 20 once we have a group of like-minded people together.

On 11/4/2021 at 1:36 PM, Alex said:

BG is more in the mindset of "violence is required, until conclusively proven otherwise!"

Oh, in that case she's nailing it.

On 11/2/2021 at 5:27 AM, Rob Darvall said:

Slightly younger than my two (17/18) now. Both were under 16 when we started. Both have BG characters, though the older now plays her's as secondary to her CA. 

Is there a pattern anyone can see (IE: is this more widespread) or mere coincidence?

That's interesting. Maybe it speaks to some archetype? The Be Gory tonight was disappointed that the party did not decide to engage the beaked dragonewt and tailed priest in combat (from 5 eyes), and decided that standing to fight a manticore was a sensible course off actio (and got off lightly).

She really she play Vinga as she lives by 'violence is always an option'.

22 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I believe the consensus among trolls is that dwarves taste great, but come in annoying Iron cans.

Bad taste go in can, bad taste come out of can!

7 hours ago, Ryan Kent said:

High Llama Rider dagger axe one handed polo mallet style!!!

I know!! Deep joy!! If I were being critical I’d say it’s a bit short but it’s too nice an image to quibble. 

51 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Yeah, trolls are people. I would allow a troll way before a non-broken dwarf (or Heaven help us, Dragonewt).

I think that Elder Race PC's living outside their race are ALL very very odd indeed, but could well end up aping (trolling? dwarfing?) human behaviour from exposure and to try to fit in.

I think an apostate dwarf who worships Issaries would be one hell of a PC to play. 

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Ironically, trolls are probably the most humanlike of all the Elder Races.

Uz say human most uz out of the ancient foes. And taste better than Mostali. 

2 hours ago, Alex said:

I suppose if you wanted a High Concept Mythic Gloranthan rationale, you could always have a higher Earth-Runic density...

Are you saying my Earth Rune looks big in this linothorax?

1 minute ago, AndreJarosch said:

The minimus STR of a man is 3, and the minimum STR of a woman is 4. 🙂

Sounds about right. Quite why they couldn’t say 2d8 for 2-16 av. 9, I don’t know, if they wanted to go that way. 

But then one could make DEX and CON 2d6 + 1d8 if you want that tripe of realism.

I prefer my idea. If we can have dragons we can have men and women the same size. 

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

I vaguely recalled this too, but forgot about the 2d6+2 STR, too!

Ironically meaning that the lowest possible female "NPC human" STR is 4, but for males is 3...

I’d forgotten about the STR too, and that’s the first thing I thought!

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

I had a look, but where in RQ3 is this?

Page 26 from Book 4 (Creatures Book) of the boxed set. In case you have a different version I add a screenshot. 

It’s easy to miss. 

20 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

No sexual dimorphism? So they're all a standard height and weight?

😊 I do specify height, weight and strength.

Everything else is as the gods intended. 

So you have short, average, tall, slim, buff etc., it’s just men and women are both about 170-175cm and 70-80kg on average.  

Katrin Dirim is responsible for some of the wonderful pieces of art in some Chaosium products. Her Instagram is a joy. 

https://instagram.com/katrindirim?utm_medium=copy_link

(I’ve no connection to her just want to see her getting some love). 

Slight tangent.

IMG men and women are the same size. No sexual dimorphism as far as body mass, height and strength goes. 

I never like the RQ3 idea that PC women were man sized but NPCs women were smaller. 

And dimorphism has helped the kind of societies we’ve seen here on round world. I don’t want Ancient Greek, Babylonian or Assyrian misogyny influencing my bronze-ish world.

Canon Glorantha has gone to some lengths to make a female character unlimited by such nonsense but to me dropping in the not dimorphic thing explains the why. 

… not do maths?

what madness is this?

😀

I’m actually surprised I didn’t do the maths. I was more like ‘if hitting it with a sword hurts it then going through a 3mm gap will too’. 

If weapons didn’t harm it the it slowly filling the chamber whilst they look for the McGuffin that gets them out would indeed have been an excellent idea. 
 

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

The best idea is to decide how long it would take for the water to move safely through. I would imagine that forcing an elemental through a tight gap would cause damage but assuming time permits a slow and safe passage...

Yup. Did the maths above. 50 minutes. 

Not an option really.