datreus

Please don't patronise me or make assumptions. If I recall correctly, I've been playing in Glorantha since the 80s. At one point or another I believe I've owned almost every content item. And this isn't a true assessment. There are plenty of other settings out there that equal or exceed Glorantha, depending on how you set your metrics. Also, I think you may not realise that if you don't KNOW the scope of what you are unaware of, well, it's not generally intimidating. For a new player/GM, Glorantha looks pretty much the same as any other FRPG. As I said, I don't mean a company sales point, but an anecdotal 'encouragement to play' if that helps explain it better. Indeed. I think the biggest issue of YBM/WV has been due to changes in visual representation, which is kind of unmissable. There's been drastic shifts in visual connotation and cultural callbacks, which has always been from what I've seen the biggest cause of contention. As mentioned, with the Sartarites, they're almost unrecognisable in current forms from earlier interpretations. I've not seen any suggestion that people are especially intimidated to play Glorantha, which is why I ask. I see a lot of supposition that they should be, but not evidence as such. From what I've seen, the term gets most usage from people who are already playing in Glorantha. If I WERE a new person and I stumbled across people discussing YGM/WV I'd find that a lot MORE intimidating than helpful. Most new people want to start with a new game/setting as is and learn about it, rather than start trying to make it do weird and wonderful things off the bat before they even know what it is. I get the feeling, and certainly quite a few YGM/WV threads I've seen over the years support this, is that there is a lot of 'oooh Glorantha is so much more complicated and involved than other settings, BEWARE NEWCOMERS!!!' from established players. I don't think that's especially true, and when it gets traction acts as a unnecessary deterrent to new blood.

I'm not sure this is different to any other RPG out there. Again, this is pretty much the same for every RPG. I know that at its inception Glorantha was quite different from the competition but RPGs have been a broad church for some decades now and there's arguably many properties with much more 'intimidating' lore for a new GM, both in scope and complexity - and they don't need to preface anything. I don't mean as an official selling point but in terms of anecdotal 'sell me on...'. And that's pretty much the nutshell of why I posted. I have seen YGM/WV used as a means to 'sell' Glorantha to newer players by more established fans of the setting. This is not something you see with other games, and that is because the notion is certainly a part of how some longer term fans 'see' Glorantha - because it's an idea that's been part of the 'official' discourse for a very long time, though arguably its meaning and intent has varied depending on who says it. While it may not be on an advisory sticker on each book, it's certainly become a 'part' of the property and deployed by people who have associated with Glorantha for enough time to have absorbed it. I'm just questioning the need for it, as I've seen it create more confusion than comfort in new players, and discord with older ones (who find their views not aligned with whichever content style is currently 'dominant'). So the question is what is it needed for? Why cannot Glorantha, like pretty much every property, just say 'This is our setting' at the outset, and if you REALLY need to spell it out, do so in an appropriate place like the 'So you're new to GM'ing section' along with 'What are dice and how do I roll them?' It's disingenuous to pretend that YGM/WV isn't a major part of the 'essence' of Glorantha in a thread devoted to that very topic, amongst many many others over the years. It does seem to be something that holds value for a very specific group of the community, and while that's 100% fine and all, it's not like it's a concept they need re-stated as a frontispiece of the property, as they've already internalised it long ago (and not that they needed it stated explicitly then). I guess I'm struggling to see the value of this notion outside of people who already understand and have internalised its value. Whenever I've tried discussing it with newer players, at best it's been extremely confusing for them until you explain the historical context in which case their politest reaction tends to be an eye roll. What's its real value?

OK, bumping in late and condensing down a wall of text that I typed into a smaller wall of text :D I find YGM/WV to be somewhat patronising at times and a barrier to bringing new people into the game. Reality is, no RPG has ever needed to give permission for people to vary their content. Let's be frank here. The only reason Glorantha has that stuck over the door is because various people producing content for the properties under various ownership have wanted to stamp their views on things. So over the decades you have at least a few significant content variations, especially in terms of visual style. That's fine. That's how narrative creation, and business, works. I get the very strong feeling that YGM/WV has been pushed up front to mollify people who were introduced to Glorantha at one stage and will find it's 'current' style discordant. And that's a lot of people, and some quite different perspectives across all these decades. So I understand wanting to wave an olive branch at them, because when you're told the Sartarites you spent many years being told looked like THAT and now someone says NO NO THEY LOOK LIKE THIS, yeah, that isn't a fun thing. People invest emotionally and that kind of thing can be quite a kick in the guts. However, there's a lot of handwaviness when people try to push YGM/WV philosophically, given I'm not seeing people actually diverging much outside of already existing content. It's not YOUR GLORANTHA MAY/WILL VARY IN ALL KIND OF DRAMATIC WAYS it really comes across as YOUR GLORANTHA MAY/WILL VARY WITHIN THE VARIOUS CONTENT PRESENTED OVER THE YEARS, at least from the majority of what I have observed. These are not the same thing, very far from it, and I get the feeling at times that the loftier former view is pushed to obfuscate the somewhat harsher reality of the latter. I'd argue that you don't need YGM/WV up front. It's frankly confusing for new people and unnecessary to boot. Feel free to explain that if they purchase older content they may see different things, but again, probably doesn't need explaining to adults. If you do want to make it a genuine philosophical backdrop for any content, then probably do it properly. Discard the unified look and feel of any content and mix it up, without meaningless or confusing contradiction, of course. I see YGM/WV pushed as a selling point at times and I don't think that's especially honest or successful in reality.