Squaredeal Sten

6 minutes ago, Eff said:

......So for a lot of people, of course the nonhumans have to vanish because you don't see any elves around here today, now do you? ....

Of course the trolls are still around.  If you don't beleve me then just spend some time looking at Quora.

4 hours ago, Manunancy said:

I would expect thetenants and other peoples who do'nt get hides of land from the clan to still have several rights to make a living outside their work :

* access to common woodlands and the like (a stickpicker has to pick his sticks from somewhere)

* right to do some gardening on plots leftover from clan distribution (including those too small and the lke). Somewhat like what went in the USSR who gave some small private plots (which ended up making a surprising big contribution as collecitvized agriculure didn't work very well)

I agree completely on the first one.

I am not sure there will be any "left over " from clan land distribution, except common woods and maybe some grazing.  

But the stickpicker should also be a day laborer,  during heavy periods like harvest.

The. Trick will be for him to advance to tenant farmer.  That is when he gets a garden plot and can run a few sheep and pigs. And a small house or shack.   Even if he spends most of his time working for the primary landholder, he is no longer destitute.  And I expect many tenant farmers will in fact be laborers in someone else's fields, herders of someone else's cattle. Dependent on that primary lzndholder.  Probably paid for it too. At least a grain ration, maybe not money.

On 7/2/2023 at 11:48 AM, soltakss said:

.......

In the 16 centuries after God Time ended, the Elder Races have fought and hated each other because of the God Time feuds, with a few notable exceptions, embedding the hate very deeply.

 

However in Time there is plenty of provocation: Guide to Glorantha explains it in the Elder Wilds section, of all places: When the Unity Council broke up because the trolls didn't trust Nysalor, the elves attacked the trolls as Nysalor inflicted the Curse of Kin on them.

So it turns out the elves are the bad guys.

The complicating factor is that distance is not the same as time.  Whether you walk or ride matters, and just as important is the quality of the road or no road at all.  There is advice on that in Guide to Glorantha as wel as the RQiG rules.  Then there is travel by water, addressed briefly in W&E.

3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Two parts to this.

, .......

Note that this set-up is a bit confusing though, as the RQG rulebook would have tenants at Poor standard of living and hence not Free (the old Carl/Cottar system) - this is why I think it's quite new, and it doesn't seem to quite mesh.  

As far as I can see the only change is the de emphasis of the terms " carl" and "cottar".  Which we are still free to use.  It's just a judgment that it is more appropriate to echo the Eastern Mediterranean bronze age than the Northern European iron age.  It is not a revision of the whole society.

Please see https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/a-few-notes-on-terms/

If you look at the background material it is pretty clear that there are not 8% nobles in Sartar.  There might be in Clearwine (taken separately from its agricultural area ) -  with a royal court and a great temple (maybe I will count up and review Jeff's writings to find the % in Clearwine ) -  but not out in the countryside.

19 hours ago, hkokko said:

I may have to but I was wondering if someone has done the work already. or even hex location table of named places in GtG

Well hex locations would mostly be from the Argan Argar Atlas.  But your basic problem is that you are pioneering in Pamaltela while most of us are resting on the greater base of background material in Sartar.  Since you are fleshing out Pamaltela why not write some of it up?  

12 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

 ........

Also, see the argument about how Tenant no longer means not-fully-free, and instead tenants seem to be counted among the Free (the way they weren't with Carls) and only the truly landless poor are semi-free.

I don't see anything in what Jeff wrote indicating that "Tenant" no longer means not fully free.  The last that I saw "half free" was pretty clear.

The only thing that i can see leading to such an interpretation is the discussion of family members, where someone wrote that the sons of the primary land holder would be tenants.  But I don't accept that, because social status and free status belong to the household as well as to the individual.  The primary social and economic unit is the household.  Not the individual and not even the nuclear family, given that the longhouse will typically  include more than one nuclear family.  The whole household is a Carl family. Not one Carl and a bunch of tenant sons, wives, and daughters.

And that economic unit, by the way. Is how I believe we can justify some socially attached  Adventurers having the opportunity to Adventure.  The land and the herd do not go untended when they leave for a week or two.  The other members of the family pick up the slack.  Of course in this model when they return most or all of the loot is expected to be given to the head of the extended family and will benefit the family as a whole including those who were plowing and hoeing while the Adventurer was away.  The Adventurer will be returned a "fair share", vague as that may be.  

2 minutes ago, hkokko said:

Starting to look at traveling cross longer distances. Has someone done already a travel time matrix or database for travel time between various cities and towns etc - something similar that some modern travel books have. I am of course mostly interested in Pamaltela especially Fonrit, Umathela, Jolar, Maslo, Errinoru

 

for example Hombori Tondo to Garguna x days and so on

 

 

There is such a travel time item in theme Jonstown Compendium for Sartar.  But it is not one big matrix.

Since you want one for Pamaltela, would you be interested in creating one?

.41 is an odd caliber.  And the vast majority of revolver cylinders have six chambers.  

Is it possible the developers put in a unique and RW nonexistent item in order to trap plagiarists?

Let's not get too far Into quibbling about the difference between a small town and a big village.  And let's remember central place theory: in undifferentiated terrain we should see a pattern of a central clan settlement *town"? surrounded by a hexagon of six villages.  All of a clan's settlements will not be the. same size.  Instead in a clan of about 800, the central one will be much larger, with about 300-400 people, as the outer ones will have 100-200 people.  

The usual situation in the world is to have hills and watercourses and swamps, so differentiation of terrain will break up the geometric pattern.  But the pattern of settlement sizes will endure despite that.  

In clans with a security problem, we will see more concentration of population Into walled places.  A better security situation will show more outlying steads.  The ability to farm more land without a long walk to get there, will.motivate wider spread steads.  

3 hours ago, dvdmacateer said:

I am talking about gaining  new rune points  not regaining existing ones or can you gain new Rune points at an associates temple? If you can sacrifice POW at an associate temple can you also sacrifice POW after casting Sanctify? 

 

RQiG says that a shrine will be able to teach only one rune spell.  So a character may have to visit more than one shrine and more than one Master Hunter to get all the Rune magic you want.  That is the disadvantage with small cults in general, Foundchild is not alone.

I presume that there would be a Foundchild shrine in many but not all temples of associated cults.

As for the second question, in my opinion you can sac POW with a Sanctify but you still need a knowledgeable priest to lead you through learning the Rune magic through its associated body of myth and knowledge, taking about a week to do so.  And if you are just at a sanctified spot then the two of you can  do little else because the Sanctify exoires when you stop the business at hand.  Far better to learn at a shrine or temple where there is support and a chance to take a break.

My own interpretation includes:

All this is fir Heortlings.  Members of other societies such as Pelorians get different rules and statuses.

Free vs semi-free (cottar or tenant farmer) status is based on land tenure and possession of equipment.  The Earth temple decides on land tenure, and considerations include

* Noble status and services to the clan and the temple.  Nobles don't work themselves or only plow when they want to, and are free (or are voluntold) to carry out clan and temple business, that is to Adventure in game terms. That is why they are given multiple hides of land, which they will hire tenant farmers to farm.  So who gets land?     Social ties count.  Heredity counts.  But performance in service to the clan, and talent, also count.  There is no canon scoresheet or algorithm for this.  So kiss up to the Ernakda priestess and the clan ring if you want land either to farm or to graze.

* Possession of a plow and ox team.  Anyone who has these is almost certain to get primary land tenure of at least one hide of farmland. Because the temple wants crop production.  It's not hereditary but obviously wealth is heritable: If you inherit Dad's ox team you have an ox team. 

Farmers without a plow and land will be cottars, tenant farmers on someone else's land.

* Possession of the equipment necessary to stand in the fyrd battle line is what gives men and Vingans the electoral franchise.  At the most basic level this is a medium or large shield,  spear, and some kind of helmet.  Obviously body armor helps one survive so it is highly advisable though not compulsory.  Anyone who can afford to and does buy these, is in. They can vote.  It's not hereditary.  Anyone who does not have these is not going to be assigned land.

Note that adults who don't own this equipment are not exempt from military service.  They will serve as archers, slingers, maybe scouts.

Note that Heortling wonen get their electoral franchise from possession of the equipment for stereotypical female roles.  That is in RQiG.

Anyone who does not have primary land tenure and farms someone else's land is a cottar or tenant farmer.  Herders without assigned grazing will have cottar status.

 Crafters who only have tenure of the land their house/shop stands on, will still be of free status.  But they are not Carls unless they also have the ag assets. And males will presumably normally be voting members of the fyrd.  Note that a crafter might alternatively be a member of a longhouse dwelling family.

Now about steads and longhouses: A stead can include more than one longhouse.  Whether it does depends on the size of the extended family and tenure of enough land to support everyone.  And maybe on whether an older daughter is fed up with Mom and wants some space of her own.

Cottars or tenant farmers will live in their own cottages.  They are not members of the stead owner's extended family.  

The family patriarch of a stead will be in the outer ring.  Other adults in the household will have free status based on that even though they are not assigned land.  They share the household's Standard Of Living. That is pretty clear from the SOL section of RQiG.  In game you handwave the question of affording their military equipment, even though at book prices it is a major expense for the family.

So back to social mobility: it is partly clan service and social ties and and job based, partly economic, partly who you marry.  The child of a noble will not necessarily be a noble on adulthood when he or she leaves home.  But does have a leg up from training and family wealth.  The child of a free farmer may become a cottar.

That's long enough.  🙂

Just one suggestion. Minor in comparison to tbe time and setting changes you have already planned: Run it to the 16th century and make matchlock muskets available.  🙂

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Other than being one print volume vs. 2 digital ones, is there any difference?

I find the print edition easier to read through.  And easier to flip from page to page.  Your reading may vary.

If you look at the Apple Lane part of the GM screen pack you will note a duck living with humans.  It's not all that rare.  To be polite call them Durulz.

There is Durulz oriented material in Jonstown Compendiuom.The most important for your purposes is the recently published Duckpac, https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/401760/DuckPac--Book-1-Myths-Legends--Lore?affiliate_rem=1888122

whose 3rd book in a solo quest.  The first two books are one volume in hardcopy.  That would be ideal for your situation as it would really help your wife get into the duck character and will fill you in as a GM.

2 hours ago, Guy Hoyle said:

Noted. But I was asking to help me bring a little life to my NPCs. What do you use to breathe some life into the stats of your NPCs, since you don't base them on real or fictional characters?

Sometimes I think of people I know. Both thise I like and dislike snd not necessarily tjose I know well.  Sometimes I think of fictional characters, like my recent discussion of Long John Silver as a Eurmali.  Sometimes I just work from the needs of the scenario to their runes to implications of those runes.

11 minutes ago, Guy Hoyle said:

I know Jimmy Stewart was a fighter pilot in WWII.

 

Actually a bomber pilot.  And eventually executive officer of a bomber wing.  While John Wayne made war flicks in California.

So if you were an enemy of the US,

* John Wayne would talk tough and pose.  Well away from you.

* Jimmy Stewart would lead several hundred friends to your city. Fly straight and level despite the antiaircraft fire (he actually led raids)  and bomb your worklplace and/ or house flat.

57 minutes ago, Guy Hoyle said:

It's popular to think of ......

What celebrities do you generally use for NPCs? 

None.  And I don't confuse movie actors with their roles either.

Now here is a quiz back to you:  which actor is the more formidable American fighting man: Jimmy Stewart or Ohn Wayne?

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

.....

Poetry is an outgrowth of singing.  You employ clever words and rhymes in song, but to then recite them clearly so people don't mishear them becomes an artform in itself.  Poems might be short amusing doggerel, but can also be elevated to a major artform where epic poems with timeless and even mythical themes are played out by a major artist over many nights as a form of noble entertainment, as perhaps a more refined form of story telling.....

Literature requires a well educated society and a means of mass producing written documents of an entertaining kind.  It is unequivocally true that there are plenty of books in Glorantha, but they are mostly housed in temples of Learning Gods like Lhankor Mhy, Irripi Ontor and Buserian.  This is likely to be a very rare art form that is appreciated only by a select class of intelligensia.  Certainly we have some very old novels, such as the Metamorphoses by Apuleius to suggest that such art predates printing presses.  Whether the novel presently exists in Glorantha is up for debate.  I am prepared to suppose that it may have existed during the 2nd Age God Learner era, but it likely doesn't exist anymore.......

 

As i understand it if you go back to the RW bronze age, poetry and literature ore one:  Literature is oral rather than written,

Homeric poetry is generally regarded as having originally been oral, and only became written as the iron Age began.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/blog/who-was-homer

https://www.lib.uchicago.edu/collex/exhibits/homer-print-transmission-and-reception-homers-works/homer-print/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130227183320.htm

On 7/2/2023 at 4:47 AM, Shiningbrow said:

However, in response to what others have said, and in particular @Squaredeal Sten, you can HQ to get immortality, plus resurrection, and probably also instant healing... and there are ways to tap into the worship of mortals, such that you can get powers.

So. there's not much of a greater benefit to apotheosis - except maybe being able to be in many places at once.

I'm not sure what you can get by heroquesting, since that depends on the GM.  The line between a superhero and a minor god is not distinct from my distant and unofficial  point of view. 

But as I understand it

*a superhero can be killed in the Middle World, and that resurrection is not automatic. 

*A god can't be killed in the Middke World, only by heroquesting into the Gods World, and doesn't worry about resurrecting a physical body. 

*Also as pointed out above the god can support multiple followers with Rune magic  allowing miracles in the Middle World without personal presence.

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

.....

Even better to be able to officiate in a minor associate role for some obscure local deity or spirit, and sit on one of the higher tables, being recognized beyond your normal station a few time in the year. That's the attraction for low class people to become holy persons (God Talkers without most of the priestly privileges or most of those duties) ....

As I imagine it there are even more opportunities for initiates to officiate in subordinate roles, not only at Sacred Time but also on other holy days.  My examples include:

(1) Helping to perform sacrifices:  While the priest presides and calls upon the god and cuts the animal's throat,  initiates will lead in the sacrificial animal. Butcher it afterward.  Barbecue it and cut portions for the rest of the congregation. All this may be taught or supervised by a subordinate priest or God Talker. In my game the first sign of the Adventurerrs' rise in status was being designated to do the barbecuing, and this was an occasion for a Worship roll.

(2) Helping to teach cult lore and to initiate: For example the Six Seasons in Sartar male  initiation scene features many members of the community wearing masks, not just the priest.

(3) For another example I see an upward bound Ernalda initiate on the assistant priestess track, as working for the temple teaching introductory lore (as in modern RW Sunday school)  and Co-teaching birthing classes.  Presumably also midwifing.  And casting Bless Pregnancy as part of her temple job, not as an individual favor.  Naturally the income from doing this last magic, and from the additional Rune points to boost characteristics, supports both the temple and the initiate's standard of living from the temple.

(4) at Sacred Time initiates may not only take subordinate roles in the in-world heroquests / passion plays, but will also usher, guard the sacred precinct, prepare by making  or repairing scenery, masks, costumes, and props.

22 hours ago, JRE said:

......

In fact, that may explain how the Kethaela Argan Argar cult could field quite efficient Enlo spearmen armies. Because they are superior Enlo. Or maybe that is how you get the Kitori. Uz children blessed with Ernalda's magic...

Good point about the Uz Kitori.  Association with human Ernaldan Kitori could make such desirable Earth magics much more available.  That would be a major advantage to Uz from participating in the hybrid tribe.  

You make my children come out healthy and I love you like a sister, even though you are a wimpy human with no Darksense and a crazy attachment to sunlight.

6 hours ago, JRE said:

I had a thought that Bless Pregnancy works on trolls, but it always makes the pregnancy Enlo. Otherwise we would have plenty of Trolls switching to propitiatory Ernalda worship, or some Issaries making a killing with Spell Trade, while it seems a cop out just to make the spell not work.

Not my impression since Bless pushes toward the most desirable result.  It could be that the Curse works on Uz regardless of Bless Pregnancy.  In which case you just get healthy trollkin if the die roll says you get trollkin.. 

But mostly, the cult of Kyger Litor is so basic to Uz that they don't abandon KL for Ernalda.  After all your family is all most Uz have going for them, and KL is an ancestor cult at its heart..  The spirit of retribution plus cutting yourself off from Uz society is a daunting prospect.  So you get BP but no one will mate with you?  Not a good deal.

It seems to me that Bless Pregnancy will work on Uz, is probably done as a favor to Uz, but since human- Uz relations are fraught it's not often offered.  An Argan Argar priest might do well participating in Spell Tradig for Bless Pregnancy.  Why preclude such an in game action?

3 hours ago, DrGoth said:

 .......  And remember, Sedenya is part of the compromise.  Perhaps what is so shocking to ...

That wasn't my impression, since Sedenya was not a party to the Compromise, having died before it and been assembled after it.

When did Sedenya become part of the Compromise?

13 hours ago, qazxsw158 said:

....becoming a god. It seems as if you are trapped, lose all your free will and can only interact with the world through your followers by them redoing all the things you already done in the past. 

That only applies to the old gods who are parties to the Great Compromise.  If you are Sedenya you evidently get all the benefits without that limitation.

It is unclear to me what the Compromise status of other mortals who achieve godhood in Time is.  Many, like Pavis with city godhood, seem to conform to that behavior. But is it compulsory?

But in game terms:  Everyone's goal is implicitly to build a more powerful character.  At godhood you have achieved the maximum in that direction. 

As additional benefits or prizes:

* You get relative immortality, relative because if Orlanth can be "killed" so can other gods.  But at least there is no expiration date stamped on your mortal package.   

*And you get worshipped too, which is very appealing and flattering. 

You have WON.

This is not to deny French Desperate Windchild's hypothesis that the gods in the Godtime / Gods World feel no limitation.