Blindhamster

and more setting appropriate, something I've only learned through further reading (although it does make sense) and as a result the PCs have only learned through passing through places like Blackspear village is that wooden walls or earthworks or simple low stone farm walls are the norm. Proper big stone walls are rare and only really seen in major cities (clearwine seems to have them based on the map, so I described them as being very impressive because they're so unusual.

Technically a simple one (in theory)

I assume the mount is treated as a distinct entity to the rider in strike ranks. It kind of seems to imply it with the mounted combat rules and the way their movement works, but anyone fancy trying to spell out the mounted rules?

My current understanding:
- the mount has it's own movement rating (usually 12), so it can move 36 meters at a run, per round.

- unlike when on foot, the rider can still attack (with a weapon of appropriate length) whilst the horse moves at whatever speed it wants, instead of the usual rule where a character could only engage if they moved no more than half their movement rate), so long as the mount itself doesn't engage and isn't engaged.

So, you basically ignore the +1SR per movement because the character themselves aren't moving, but instead need to basically wing it and give a rough idea of when the character would be able to swing, realistically a character is only likely to ever make a single attack from a moving mount because after the attack they've already moved too far away without the player using their ride skill to have the mount stop.

That about right?

e.g.

character on a horse with mobility. The horse can now move 72 meters at a run, the character has a lance, and lines up their attack, the characters normal SR is 3 for dex, 1 for size and 0 for the lance, so the earliest they can attack is still SR4, you effectively rule it that, so long as they successfully control their mount (which is automatic on normal terrain for a cavalry horse) they make their attack at the appropriate SR, so long as  they're within around 20 meters of the riders starting point, and if they're further away, just nudge the attack to be later in the round?

Thats how i've been doing it, which feels reasonable for a heavy or light cavalryman.

looking at the release order, I noticed that the GM Sourcebook and the starter set seem to be the next expected releases now? I thought the cults book and possibly the sartar homeland book were probably expected next (especially because of all the art Jeff has shared on facebook for the cult book of late?

Don't get me wrong, I'd actually be very happy to get the GM book sooner rather than later, but still, is the list just not up to date?

On 8/25/2020 at 9:25 PM, AndreJarosch said:

Yes, that is Nick, you, and me (and lot´s of old fans), but i am thinking of people that are newly recovering Glorantha for themselves, and don´t have years and years of experience in running RQ and/or HQ. 

just wanted to say - this, absolutely. For people newer to the setting that don't have the encyclopedia level knowledge, having detailed stats is excellent, we learn something about the setting from it's inhabitants, good writeups on the NPCs gives us insight into details of their lives, knowing that they have certain skills we maybe wouldn't automatically expect can have implications, knowing their rune affinities and passions helps determine how we portray them.

Speaking as someone who has a whopping 10 sessions of RuneQuest under their belt as a new GM to the system, I absolutely love it. I add my own details here and there, but I've mostly used the Gamemaster adventures as a starting point, adding a couple of session prior to apple lane, expanding on events before and after the raid, introducing interactions with some locations and individuals on the way to clearwine to be recognised etc. Being able to see details of important NPCs really helps.

(fwiw, I'm not new to GMing, I've ran games in various systems, and made my own settings plenty of times over the past twenty or so years, but there is something about Gloranthas rich setting that also makes it daunting for both players and GMs, my group are enjoying it (a lot, which I am lucky and greatful for) but we all agreed that the largest obstacles to the system, is the setting itself, because it's so vast, working out how the world fits together, I'm both excited and dreading my first hero quest because they're such an integral part of the setting (really hope for the game master book sooner rather than later to expand on those things, and yes, I have Six Seasons of Sartar and the Secrets of HeroQuestiong Jonestown books)

land belonging to orlanth rex makes sense considering its Queen Leika that has to recognise the thane, not anyone else, and she is high priest of orlanth rex.

So far the characters have been planning, working out what is priority and getting buy in from the town, some of those plans were brought up as part of the meeting with Queen Leika. It'll be slow burn and is something I've made clear to my players, in keeping with the setting. I like the idea that when gringles gets cleared out there may be some interesting trinkets found, i also like the idea that some of the workers think to take said trinkets themselves, creating a situation for the new thane to deal with when they are inevitably caught.

Walls seem to have dropped down the list as they've realised its a pretty rare think, I suspect they'll settle for simpler defenses honestly.

4 minutes ago, 7Tigers said:

Top of page 7, column 1 :=> The festival takes place in Fertility Week of Sea Season.

I do not know why I couldn't see that thanks!

its the festival that the pegasus plateau adventure is based around.
The gathering at the plateau is because of the festival.

I've thrown my players a tidbit to go to the plateau to find storm voice Varangost as one of the players just became Thane of Apple Lane and the old Thane was his younger brother. She suggested going when the three winds festival takes place. Based on the art, it looks to be a warm time (lots of naked people) so I guess setting it in something like Harmony or Movement week of Fire Season might work?

When is this festival supposed to take place? I assume it's a yearly event?

Thanks!

So, I went through RQ3 stuff, and have made myself a little table after doing some conversion and general tweaks. It may not be perfect but it's enough to give a reasonable starting point for setting player expectations.

removed old table to avoid confusion

if they're learning spells, they aren't working

for me, its one of the things I actually really like with RQ - time feels like it moves on much more quickly, which makes choices like being young or old much more meaningful at the start too.

10 hours ago, Scorus said:

Got it. I was going from the set-up in the Gamesmaster Adventure book. Never mind!

yeah that bit in there never made much sense, It makes sense there are the orchards nearby, but most of the people that supposedly would need to manage things just dont have the ability to do so, beyond that, it doesn't make much sense that Hendroste would need 5 hides worth of apples for that matter. But even in there, it notes that the hides for weaponmasters guild are currently just being sold by squinch.

The temples having tithes based on farmers makes sense, I guess though, so perhaps I'll course correct a little and say that the farmers aren't tenants to the temples but instead are free owning their own hides or something, but tithing to the temples instead.

actually no, I just had zero point of reference to start from on what would be realistic!

maybe something like 10 workers, 6 skilled, 4 unskilled. And assume materials have to be purchased too, or add more unskilled if mining is required?

from what my player has told me, they plan to hire people to do it, hence the need for a rough timescale for tasks. I'd guessed maybe a season to repair the pawnshop, assuming 3 skilled workers and a couple of unskilled ones.. Obviously buying stock on top of that is another matter, as is hiring a shopkeeper. Is a season too short for repairing the pawnshop? I struggled much online about timescales for a bronze age stone buildings construction/repairs lol.

Building a stone wall around the town assuming just the town as shown on the Apple Lane map is, I guess a year of work for a fair number of workers.

A thing to note, is the loot from the Tusk Rider camp is worth over 7kL which means they can in theory afford to pay for work even if it takes years - which is fine as it allows them to arrange things and then deal with other stuff.

was going to be my next follow up honestly.

How long would it take to rebuild the pawnshop? Its a two story, fairly large and clearly well made building originally.

I don't think its something you'd get done with unskilled labour, and only one person in town has any skill at carpentry, so outsourcing would be a thing, but thankfully costs of outsourcing are provided. So i can be management of both time and money.

yeah each attack is your Dex SR + weapon SR + Siz SR (if melee). There may be additional modifiers on top of that for preparing.

The archer in my game has Dexterity 19, so Dex SR0, he's often the one to initiate combats thanks to also being stealthy so typically fires a shot at SR1 another at SR 6 and another at SR11 for first round. Then SR 5 and SR 10 each round after that.

my experience so far is that an archer with a remotely good skill is utterly terrifying and can make a mockery of almost any fight if they have forewarning of enemies incoming (such as though a spirit animal Vrokhawk..

He tends to do most of the work in most of the combats the party of 4-6(depending on attendance) have been in so far.

makes my life as a GM a nightmare

5 hours ago, Scorus said:

5 tenants of hides that benefit the Thane. But each of the Ulerian Temple, Temple to all Dieties, Horsemasters' Guild, and Weaponmasters' Guild have 5 also, for a total of 25 tenants. It is great land north of the road so plenty of room for expansion. South of the road and orchards would be the logging needed for the walls, though it is getting into dangerous territory.

'In a Merry Vale' has an exhaustive write up of Lysang and a lot on Antorling and Namolding (though it is ca. 1615). My Hiording notes are in the Glorantha section, if you want to use any of it.

I guess our gloranthas vary, the weaponmasters guild is abandoned and wont have any hides associated, the Horsemasters Guild isn't a guild, its him, his wife and his step son and his focus is on horses not farming or herding, neither Aileena or Kareena have manage household, so I didn't seem them managing any lands, instead I'd expect them to be claiming tithes from the thane and the various commercial buildings.

That's not to say that none of those locations ever had their own tenant farmers, purely that they dont at the moment and havent for some time in my glorantha.

But again, YGMV.

I've not portrayed it to the players as safe ground so far, with potential broo issues in the mountains, rumours of lunar remnants and tusk riders so far. Not to mention the fact it's technically contested ground that has just traditionally fallen under colymar rule. So tend to agree with you. It's also why the new Thane from my players is inclined to train the locals and also to try and build a proper militia. But people above are correct that there are simply too few people to make a realistic defense of the town as a whole against anything but small raiding groups like the tusk riders from the scenario (and even they were only relatively simple because the PCs had a bit of notice and did an excellent job building defenses in the time they had and I rolled terribly and they rolled very well lol)

2000L of herds is more or less what I was expecting yeah, and as you say, lands as well, seems to me the region around Apple Lane can easily support more farmers, its just that there are only five tenants when the character becomes Thane.

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

So, to GM the interactions with the Hiording and Lysang clans and a Birne's Squeeze trip... .  People have already written something involving the Hiording, and an earlier Lysang adventure set was recently published.  I never was able to find much written on Birne's Squeeze, drafted a couple of ideas.   Interestingly the clan boundary more or less bisects the squeeze.   Past history of Lysang will have them estranged from the Colymar tribe, maybe that's why there seems to be no cooperation vs. the bandits.  If your Thane attempts to clear the whole Squeeze will the Lysang consider that an unwelcome intrusion?  There is room for politics here, not just chasing bandits.

Ooh I love the idea of them doing that and accidentally causing political unrest in what has otherwise been relatively stable. Works particularly well as he is essentially an outsider that had enough of an "in" to become thane. Though it's something Aileena and Brightflower would probably be aware enough of to attempt to advise him against... but, give him enough of an incentive and he might go for it anyway.

Yeah there doesn't seem to be much about the Squeeze, but it's supposed to be a popular spot for bandits and ambushes due to its relatively narrow path and steep drops.

With my group, I ended up with:

• An Old Tarshite Heavy Cavalryman
• A Lunar Tarshite Philosopher
• Twin Sartarites (Nari clan), one a light infantryman the other a healer who's bigger and quicker and stronger than most of the party lol
• An Esrolian Trader
• An Esrolian Priestess of Ernalda in training.

They rolled up histories and discovered quite a few links and then embelished from there. Ended up that the two Priestess, Twins and Heavy Cavalryman all fought at Pennel Ford and had been involved almost in the same events there so were war comrades, the philosopher was captured and enslaved at the dragon rise (he had been a conscripted sorcerer) by praxians, it turned out that praxians had slain the twins father years earlier and they happened to kill the praxian slavers and as a result inadvertently rescused the strange man who is endebted to them, the trader they met at boldhome when Kallyr was crowned Prince of Sartar and agreed to travel with because he was charming.

8 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

In my humble opinion Apple lane doesn't currently have enough population in town to defend walls if they were built.  The strategic challenge for the town is to add population and economic base.  Yes, clearing Birne's Squeeze and restoring trade would be important to that. 

Currently several of the cottars are refugees from recent bad events - seems reasonable -  and there is no large scale map of the immediate area, so you are free to assume whatever your GM will allow. Seems to me Apple Lane had more population a few years ago and so has the land to absorb more now. 

The town needs an export to bring in cash.  Of course the Uleria temple does that too,  Right now the economic strength may be the eponymous apple orchards.  So think about what you can do with that.  If you go into the hard cider business you will have a lower class of customer than Clearwine -  but the gods must love the poor because they made so many of them.  Figure what is needed to support such business and where your markets might be.   Infrastructure might include a potter, someone has to make amphorae for you to fill them.

As for defense -  a ditch and / or palisade would slow down charging tusk riders, but fortifications need to be defended.  That takes you back to building up a town militia which takes you back to enough people.

You might also consider what your relations with the local clan are -  bringing in more refugees would have to be OK with them. 

Reminder, I'm the GM, not the player Totally agree on needing more people to justify the walls etc, I'd been thinking to allow the chance for negotiating to have some warriors provided - which would potentially give one of the other players a chance to do the negotiating (he's a merchant lol).

Logically, the export of Apple Lane is indeed it's Apples, and likely Cider and Apple Wine too.

Generally, he seems to have the right idea in that he wants to get the people already living there better trained and equipped where possible (he's aware the majority of them are either very old, or very young), and to bring in people to strengthen the numbers. In theory, some of the other PCs may decide to bring their families too, clans allowing it of course.

Between them, they took the bait that the place has a lot of untapped potential and clearly was more in the past, so hopefully it'll give them a base of operations and a project as well as a reason to adventure and gather wealth through various means.

It does have a well, so in theory has good water from that, and there is also a river in Birne's Squeeze from what I could tell.

I had the Tusk Riders be a recent development as a result of the end of the war, rather than a long term issue, although the first issue the party had in my game was witnessing a broo larvae burst from a farmer on the trail along Birne's Squeeze then when they spent time helping him they were attacked by a small band of Broo and discovered a Broo Shaman - suggesting other issues along the trade route there.

In terms of what Aileena is for or against, once a Thane has been appointed, they do have final say on such matters, part of being a member of Orlanth Rex.

That being said, Aileena and Brightflower put the heroes in charge during the defense, and specifically chose Rastalor to be Thane due to his handling of the attack, preparations he arranged and calm manner in which he got everyone into position once they knew the attack was coming (not to mention the fact he rode out and drew a few to him, which he fought alone). So in my glorantha, Aileena and Brightflower are willing to follow this new Thane until he proves himself untrustworthy. I also have the idea of stray lunar soldiers potentially attacking, knowing that Apple Lane lacks a garrison and any real defenses, the only part of Apple Lane that has historically never been attacked as I understood it, is the temple to All the Deities.

But yeah, getting more people into town (there are a lot of unused buildings, including what amounts to a fighters guild) is a priority, he is actually not from Sartar but is a devout follower of Orlanth, so he already has plans to bring some of his family and extended family to Apple Lane and is willing to swear fealty to Queen Leika whome he actually fought with during the wars.

Back to the topic at hand though, I can see that skilled labourers cost 3-7 coppers per day, I imagine you'd need 3-5 to rebuild a building and build anything new in any kind of reasonable time, but exactly how long that time would be, I'm not sure. Likewise, cost of materials could either be actual cost of materials, or I guess unskilled unskilled labour for a bunch of time too. So I suppose I can work something out based on how timely he wants the work done, vs how much coin he is willing to spend.

20 cows would be 400L so 2000L for 5 hides worth plus extra for building and hiring herders. Cool, I can work with that.

Hello fellow RuneQuesters.

I've a player who became Thane of Apple lane after I ran that particular adventure (i've been running a campaign that mixes in my own things coupled with some of the existing adventures).

He wants to invest the majority of the spoils from the Tusk Riders treasure (which he found because Durag switched sides when it was clear she'd die otherwise and as Durag didn't have hate for everyone and everything, and he rolled a critical success on Orate, she's now under guard but in theory a part of the town).

He wants to do:

• Rebuild the pawnshop and hire someone to work there
• Invest to provide initial stock for the shop
• Look at building a proper wall around the town, with entrances at each road
• probably look to add a watch tower in the north and south

Any suggestions on costs to do these sort of things? The economy of the setting is quite varied... (weapons and armour seem very cheap, magic stuff insanely expensive considering how easy such stuff in theory is to make, yearly earnings feel very small considering the cost of trading etc.)

In addition, one of the PCs was very rich due to very lucky starting rolls and as of yet, hasn't spent the money. I'm sure I read about a way to become a noble would be to purchase a certain sized herd and property then petition the queen to be made one.

It so happens they'll be heading to clearwine for the thane to be recognised as such, i'd like to be able to offer the rich PC the option to effectively also invest into the town by purchasing a herd whilst in clearwine along with employing herders and having him formally recognised as a noble via that too.

Any thoughts? Anyone able to help with required size of herd? or was I imagining that?

Thanks!

4 hours ago, Jason D said:

I allow adventurers who have not already acted that round to change their statement of intent (essentially changing plans mid-round). 

 

Not everyone is a hardcore rules lawyer.

The rules are there to help people enjoy the game and to facilitate gameplay. If there's a situation or condition where rigid adherence to the letter of the rules stands in the way of people enjoying themselves, I cut the players some slack and give them the benefit of the doubt. 

On the other hand, the rules as written are also what the default go to for GMs will be, especially GMs new to the system, the death at the end of the round you hit 0 rule is pretty clearly a non starter of a rule even to someone new to the system though and it seems like nobody uses it, so including a fix in the next rune fixes would be good for everyone. It's not about rules lawyering, its about rules giving appropriate guidance of the intent of the game.

The reason i came and posted this at all, was because the game suggests one thing and i couldn't see how it would work, seems it simply doesn't work so nobody uses it, including some of the writers - which is totally fine, but a simple acknowledgement and perhaps fix next time a rune fixes doc gets done would be good for other new players, not everyone that plays RQ:G will be experienced runequesters.