camazotz

I've stood at the circular hearth of Mycenae. That was my Mecca! And on the chariot ramp, the entrance into Tiryns, where Perseus undoubtedly rode up with the head of medusa hanging from his belt....

Lucky bastard!

On your prior post re: players hating it...I am fortunate in that the players who like historical gaming absolutely love when it takes them "off the beaten path." I do have a bunch of regulars in another group however which despise the unfamiliar, so I do feel your pain.

Honestly, with BASIC Creatures already available, don't think we need another "monsters" monograph - what we need a full distribution Basic Role Playing Bestiary with all new art and a good spread of creatures for all genres and styles of play.

How likely such a thing on the other hand...

Nick

Agreed....I'd love to see a Malleus Monstrorum suited for the multi-genre approach to BRP.

Whoever wrote that download seemed like a good place to start, was all I'm suggesting =)

Don't worry, one way or another I will be writing a Heroic Greece supplement at some point in the future. I can't make any promises about what system/publisher yet though. I have a bit of work for Moon Design to do first.

This would make me very happy....and also cut down on a lot of work for my own Greek campaign!

I absolutely LOVE the system but am not really a big Glorantha fan even though the campaign my group is currently playing in is based in Gloratha the Second Age. I know Sprange claims that Wayfarer will be 100% compatible with the current MRQII and nothing will change in the new book except for the addition of errata but I hope they include some clarifications on movement, charging, etc. I also wonder if magic will change at all. Magic in MRQII is tied to cult membership, which is a Gloratha aspect. Will magic now be somewhat divorced of cult membership in terms of spell availability, etc. I wonder?

The core book handles it more like a form of organization-member relationship; cults and religions may provide divine magic access for the most part, but you could belong to an order of sorcerers, a guild, or even a battle-mage's fraternity. I think the presentation as given in RQII is widely applicable to various settings, even if it owes its roots to Glorantha. I have like fifty various cults, guilds and orders that can be joined in my own home campaign, for example. It's a great concept, and mirrors a bit more closely than most other RPGs how "secret knowledge" like magic might be transmitted. So hopefully it'll be "de-Gloranthaized" by merely emphasizing its universal applicability.

Runes, on the other hand, are probably about to disappear big time....unless they feel like grabbing some genuine Norse runes and inserting them in!

Yeah! The great RQ sale because they are making a new core book. One year after the last great sale because they were making a new core book.

Marketing masterpiece! O FLGS, please carry our books! It is an assured investment!

No words....

Well damn, this is certainly true. Not sure I can even look my FLGS owner in the eye after I spent so much time last year convincing him that RQII was worth stocking on his shelves. I love RQII as a system, and I have my hopes Mongoose will do it right with Wayfarer, but those hopes are based entirely on supersition and witchcraft at this point.

Sigh.....

I think there's plenty of room for conflict even in a reasonably new-school historical approach. I got Rohl's book in at last, will be reading it asap. Still plugging along...worked out a reasonable atlas of sorts for the Pellopenese region with a focus on Mycenae and its relations to the pelasgians, Minoans and so forth. I can already tell that Arcadia is going to be the "weird forestland you don't want to get lost in," for example.

Anyway, it's not a lot yet, but I've worked out a brief outline with some distinctly supernatural plots, and some key central locations in which to set the action:

Shadows over Mycenae

Within the streets of this city-state fortress a darkness surfaces. Foreigners from the north, the Pelasgian tribes have been at war with the Mycenaeans for decades, but the attacks have grown bolder. Meanwhile, the elder king Perseus and his wife Andromeda, who is herself a native of Ethiopia across the sea, where Perseus’s eldest sone Perses rules. Perses has recently sent a delegation to warn his father: cults have risen, involving the Three Sisters, of whom Perseus slew Medusa so long ago. It is whispered that her sisters Stheno and Euryaile are at last intending their revenge against his murder of their sister. The stories that the three sisters are in fact hideous monsters that can petrify men only help fuel the fire of rumor.

Elsewhere, in the northlands of the pelasgians of the mainland a new cult has arisen, which claims that the mother of all monsters, Echidna, conspires with her children to plot the freedom of her husband Typhon from his grave beneath Mount Aetna, through which a portal to Tartarus can be found. The Oracle of Echidna claims she seeks revenge against the gods (and Zeus in particular) for their imprisonment and subjugation, and plans to achieve this by freeing Typhon, her husband. The apocalyptic claims of this mysterious oracle in the north are sparking rebellion and dissention among the pelasgian tribes, who now grow emboldened and strike out against Mycenaean outposts along the northern territory.

Typhon’s portal to Tartarus is said to be located beneath Mount Aetna, on a remote Isle to the mysterious western lands of the Etrustcans (Sicily). The Oracle of Echidna believes that with enough strength, Typhon will be able to break free. To accomplish this, the oracle and Echidnae’s cultists believe they have been called forth to awaken the brood children of the Mother of All Monsters, to awaken these chthonic beings to wreak havoc against the Mycenaeans and other followers of the young gods.

Gazetteer

Mycenae

(from Wikipedia) during the Bronze Age: “During the Bronze Age the pattern of settlement at Mycenae was a fortified hill surrounded by hamlets and estates, in contrast to the dense urbanity on the coast (cf. Argos). Since Mycenae was the capital of a state that ruled, or dominated, much of the eastern Mediterranean world, the rulers must have placed their stronghold in this less populated and more remote region for its defensive value.”

The Mycenaeans are a hardy lot, engaging in athletic games, military training and civic responsibilities while managing their households. The region is a hub of farmland filled with houses and estates, surrounded and protected by the palatial fortress on the high hill.

The king of Mycenae is Perseus, who has in his middle years has settled down to manage his people and lives his glory years through the tales of orators who speak of his great deeds. Though he no longer carries the shield of Athena or the head of Medusa (which he gave to the goddess) he still carries the adamantine sword Zeus gave him in his youth. He rules with Andromeda, who remains the most beautiful woman of this era.

The Mycenaeans are worshippers of Zeus and the “greater pantheon” they have introduced to the mainland since their arrival.

Korinthos

Northward from Mycenae lies Korinthos, along the peninsular coast, where the people (all of Pelsasgian descent, worshippers of the old Titans) are ruled by the evil king Sisyphus. Korinthos and Mycenae are always at war, and have been for generations. Though no recent conflicts have been fought, the threat of the Pelasgians of Korinthos always looms, and insures the Mycenaeans remain vigilant in their military exercises.

The people of Korinthos have begun to adopt the worship of Zeus, and have looked away from the older Titans as their gods.

Kichyro and Nekromanteion

Southwest lies the city of Kichyro (late Ephyra), where the dark temple of Nekromanteion rests, acting as the eternal gateway to the land of the dead, Hades’ realm. Kichyro is the capitol of the kingdom of Thesprotia, which is another rival to the west of Mycenae. Here rules the Pelasgian king Thesprotos, a surviving son of Lycaon. Thesprotos fought and conquered all of the tribes in this region, bringing them under control and uniting them in to his kingdom. He built Kichyro as a fortress to both oversee his conquered lands and also to honor the nearby temple-shrine which protects the sacred entrance to Hades’ realm.

Worship of the cthonic gods is popular in this region. The mysteries of the portal to Hades, guarded by the priests of the Nekromanteion give the people and the land a sinister reputation. Necromancy is more common here (using necromancy as the literal process of divination from communion with the dead).

(Note: Nekromanteion may not have existed in the period I am setting this, but its just too cool to pass up)

Arkadia This land is an unspoiled wilderness in the region between Thesprotia and Mycenae, and haunted ruins found in Arkadia is where the legacy of Lycaon can be found. The oldest city lies in ruins, and it is said that lycanthropes born from the curse of Lycaon roam the region. Likewise, Pan, greatest of the satyrs, is said to roam throughout Arcadia, as do many other supernatural beings, some friendly, some dangerous to mortals.

From Wikipedia: “Geographically, ancient Arcadia occupied the highlands at the centre of the Peloponnese. To the north, it bordered Achaea along the ridge of high ground running from Mount Erymanthos to Mount Cyllene; most of Mount Aroania lay within Arcadia. To the east, it had borders with Argolis and Corinthia along the ridge of high ground running from Mount Cyllene round to Mount Oligyrtus and then south Mount Parthenius. To the south, the border Laconia and Messenia ran through the foothills of the Parnon and Taygetos mountain ranges, such that Arcadia contained all the headwaters of the Alpheios river, but none of the Eurotas river. To the south-west, the border with Messania ran along the tops of Mount Nomia, and Mount Elaeum, and from there the border with Elis ran along the valleys of the Erymanthos and Diagon rivers. Most of the region of Arcardia was mountainous, apart from the plains around Tegea and Megalopolis, and the valleys of the Alpheios and Ladon rivers.”

Finally got to download this...its very handy to have. Chaosium really should contact the author about putting out a proper monster monograph like this for BRP.

I'm keen to download that thing but Scribd seems to hate my netbook....is it anywhere else?

I bought this but haven't read it yet (so have no idea how good it is): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lords-Avaris-David-Rohl/dp/0712677623

"The Lords of Avaris is one man’s journey in search of the legendary origins of the Western World.

Our story begins in a small rock-cut tomb below the desolate ruin-mound of Jericho in the Jordan Valley. This is the start of an epic journey of discovery, in the Homeric mould, which ranges across the ancient lands and archaeological sites of the Mediterranean. From Joshua’s Jericho to Romulus’ Rome, the true chronicle of our pre-Christian past is uncovered revealing an extraordinary historical picture, previously unimagined by scholars.

The epic legends of the West, which permeate the writings of Greece and Rome, appear to have been based on the exploits of genuine historical figures and actual events. There really was an ‘Heroic Age’ of brazen-clad warriors, the last of which fought before the walls of Troy, just as described in Homer’s Iliad.

At the beginning of the Middle Bronze Age – two thousand years before the assassination of Julius Caesar in the Roman Senate – a new people appeared on the stage of history to join the great civilisations of Mesopotamia and Egypt. These ‘Indo-European’-speaking tribes were chariot-riding warriors from the northern mountains and plains. They became the Hittites, the Aryan kings of Mitanni, the Vedic heroes of the Indus, and the founders of the later empires of Greece, Persia and Rome. They had many legendary names – the Divine Pelasgians of Greece, the Luwians of Troy and western Anatolia, the Rephaim and Anakim of the Bible, and the Hyksos rulers of Avaris who suppressed Egypt for generations. Their heroes and heroines are legionary: Inachus, mythical king of Argos in the Peloponnese; his daughter the beautiful Princess Io who married an Egyptian pharaoh; Danaus, the Hyksos ruler who, fleeing from Egypt to Greece, founded the Mycenaean dynasty which culminated in Agamemnon’s ill-fated Trojan War; Cadmus, the bringer of writing to the West; Minos, the Cretan high-king of Knossos who built the infamous Labyrinth; Mopsus, warrior and sage who led a vast Greek, Philistine and Anatolian army into the Levant in a daring attempt to seize Egypt in the time of Ramesses III. All these, and more, are the stuff of legend – but The Lords of Avaris reveals these Classical heroes as flesh-and-blood characters from our ancestral past."

Okay, I'm ordering that book...right...now.

Also ordering this: Chimera. Read it years and years ago, but I think it would provide a lot of inspiration to re-read it today.

I do not like the Modern Equipment Monograph. Based on the soldier on the front cover, I was expecting detailed weapon listings and I was shocked to discover than their are no weapons in this Monograph!

However, both of the adventure Monographs are quite good.

Actually yeah I was intiially taken aback that there were no firearms and weapon tables in the book, but I warmed up to it when I realized that apart from that I was holding an awesome loot resource for Rubble & Ruin.

While I appreciate your opinion and your more than welcome to it. I would like to clarify one point that could incorrectly lead someone to or from Classic Fantasy based on the above erroneous comment. If someone wants to play D&D, then Classic Fantasy is not a suitable replacement. Your statement seems to imply the opposite. I personally do not like D&D's game mechanics and do not like level based systems. What I do like is D&D's game worlds and many of its classic adventures.

Classic Fantasy is not a re-write of any version of D&D nor is it a "retro-clone" in any way.

D&D has levels where Classic Fantasy does not.

D&D has escalating hit points where Classic Fantasy does not.

D&D has a strict alignment system where Classic Fantasy uses the Allegiance system from BRP just re-named.

D&D has restrictive character classes where Classic Fantasy uses the BRP professions and gives them special abilities based upon their D&D counterparts. Many of these special abilities are acquired as a character raises his allegiance, not level, which is right from BRP and not something I made up.

If someone were to buy Classic Fantasy thinking it were a different version of D&D, I think they would be very disappointed. But if they wanted to relive some of the early adventures using a much better game system, where an orc could still be a threat to even the most powerful adventurer and your mage could swing a battle axe all day long, then maybe they would like to take a look at it.

Again, I have no problem with Classic Fantasy not being your cup of tea. I just feel that one description is unfair and does not convey the correct information.

Rod

I'm actually really pleased to see that a lot of BRP authors hang out here (I guess that should be obvious to me, but oh well) and I definitely wantto emphasize that I think Classic Fantasy is a good, clearly written and fun-to-read book loaded with useful content for the dungeon delve fantasy genre.

My main contention was that the thematic style of fantasy it presents, which it does convey very well, is really engrained in my own personal gaming experiences with the themes and rules of D&D. As a result, Classic Fantasy is less useful to me because it lacks things I associate the rather specialized dungeon crawling genre with (AC, levels, all that stuff you mention) but yes, it does ineed provide a great set of rules for accomplishing the thematics of dungeon delving in this classic mold but in the BRP system.

Anyway, my apologies! I should have been very clear that I wasn't suggesting the book was not useful to others looking for what it offered, but rather that my specific associations with the genre, as well as the kind of fantasy I would be using BRP for were not one and the same. And by Jove if it wasn't a good book for anyone I would have been clear on that, too!

Anyway, I know from reading elsewhere that Part II is on the way. While I might not have a lot of use for the first volume, the contents of the second voume (especially the monsters!) have me very intrigued. Any estimates on when it will become available?

I'm glad that I'm not the only opinionated reptile on this site. But dissing Classic Fantasy is going to get you Prismatic Sprayed!

Ugh! Yeah thats the problem with the internet....everyone's got an opinion, including me

Mongoose's Runequest II: Monster Coliseum is pretty useful, although you'd have to do a bit of conversion work to use it with BRP. RQII lacks a HP total, using only HP by location, for example, and has some skills that don't really translate like persistence and resilience. I haven't cross-referenced how hits by location are determined but I am sure they skew differently from BRP. Other than that the stat blocks are probably close enough. That said, I have found Basic Creatures to be much simpler to use directly with the BGB and even ended up getting the Basic Gamemaster and Basic Magic so I could opt to use them in games as well. Runequest III....even with the serial numbers filed off....remains one of my personal top dogs, so I can't complain too much about these genericized copies of the RQIII books.

Still, maybe some day Chaosium will produce the equivalent Malleus Monstrorum for BRP....that would make my day.

The Mythic Greece supplement from ICE was very good. It was set just prior to the Trojan War and walked the line between archaeology and "Harryhausen" fantasy strongly leaning to the latter. It included a decent map and gazetteer of places too. We used it as a base for RQ3 and later Gurps games and had quite a blast. Looks like there is a copy available at Noble Knight Games - they are asking $50 for it and I don't know if it is worth that much money... Three copies on e-bay right now for a more reasonable price.

I remember that one! I had it years ago, been trying to find it on ebay but its really difficult to locate now. The Mythic Egypt one was also pretty decent as I recall.

Sounds like you are going for more of a historical game then a monsterfest with a Greek mythology cover. I like it.

I'm fuzzy on when certain heroes were around, but it sounds like Herakles followed Persus onto the scene? I don't rememer who, or even where I read it, but a cool idea someone had was for the players to play "sons [or daughters] of Herakles". This made them more human than godlike (in most cases -Herakles did take up with the widow of the ogre Antaeus and fathered Sophax for example) so they could have some high stats and/or powers. The premise was they were banded together both to help one another (lots of enemies were made by dad) and to compete for glory as they sought to "live up to the legend" of their father.

We'll all be interested in what you come up with I'm sure, so feel free to share both BRP stats and gaming notes.

That would be a really cool concept; Herakles was generally presented as fairly prolific, even when Hera was testing his sanity with infanticide....so the idea of the PCs being his children or descendents would be a great precedent.

In terms of the mythology's very, very loose order of events it seems like Perseus was first, although Theseus was on a side track with his adventures with the Minotaur, and both came before Jason, Heracles and Achilles, who are sometimes viewed or intimated to be descended from the Perseid blood line...or at least I find various references suggesting as much. I like how GURPS Greece takes the time to review each hero and also suggest what sort of person the mythic figure might have been derived from in a historical context (Heracles could very well have been an extremely prolific mercenary soldier whose company of men really got around, for example). Looked through the lens of the unreliable narrator really allows for some interesting interpretations of the myths, too.

Anyway yeah, as I develop some plots and setting areas (and all the stats!) I'll definitely post them here for anyone who wants to use them for their own games, too.

Got mine, book is gorgeous. Trying to conspire how to tell my Pathfinder group that This Is What We Are Playing Now without causing a riot. Luckily I have a handful of dedicated BRP fans who I am gearing up my Greece campaign for (they also want an Old West game).

No misprints here.....book is very nice, high quality. I got the Cthulhu Invictus Companion at the same time, and bought Devil's Gulch at last the other day as well...good week!-- lots of reading and a sturdy rulebook to prep from.

I've been messing with a few resources now, still absorbing all the Mazes & Minotaurs stuff, as well as a free book I found on rpgnow called The New Argonauts. Of course GURPS Greece is pretty hard to beat, as well.

My current conundrum boils down to: Use Ancient Heroic-Age Greece for the mythology writ large (essentially set the setting in the Homeric vision of Greece), but reinterpreted through the lens of historical and archaeological information on the period. This would be a relatively dark and gritty campaign, where I extrapolate from the actual historical data on the period to reconstruct what it might have looked like in 1600 BCE Mycenae (Mukanai) during the period of conflict when the Pelasgians were (possibly) being displaced by or merging with the invading population of the Achaeans....or possibly even a case in which the local Mycenaeans (as well as the Minoans, who were on the verge of going into decline) were basically stuck between the Pelasgian populations and other Achaean tribes to whom they were related. Of course this is all happening right around the time when Thera was most likely to have erupted, which I think would make for a great story backdrop, and if I wanted to I could integrate some of the prototypes of the Atlantis tale from Plato in to the matter by suggesting that the real Atlantis was, in fact, an outlier colony of Minoans who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when the volcano erupted.

I'm also debating how much of Graves and other advocates for the early Greek mythic transitional period to use. If I aim for a sort of quasi-archeo-historical recreation I could toy with the idea that maybe the Pelasgians were characteristic of the matrilineal "White Goddess" concept he espoused, with a society on the cusp of invasion by the Acheaeans and their patrilineal "Dyeus" (Zeus). I've also long thought that the entire myth-cycle of Zeus's triumph over Ouranos and the Titans was characteristic of a sort of relgious coup, in which the invading religion gains triumph over the beliefs of the subjugated by both absorbing and then subjugating the pantheon of local gods, which makes me think it would be interesting to emphasize the idea that many of the Titans might still be worshipped and represented in this period, but the faithful are losing ground to the Achaean invaders and their new system of belief and religion. This could make for great RPG plot fodder, as this being a fantasy setting means that there are real monsters, and the cultists of the Titans could be calling upon the monstrous children of those Titans (such as Echidna and Typhon's hideous brood of beasts like the hydra and the chimera among others) to cause as much strife as they can among the invading Achaeans (and maybe these monsters will be even more frightening and hideous than imagined...basically Greek art and tales do their best to capture the truly horrifying, mythosesque nature of the titanspawn). Of course the Achaean tribes are where all the young heroes spring from, and while noted warriors like Herakles and Perseus are destined to appear, the PCs get to play all the heroes that Homer never knew about (or whose deeds were misattributed to other heroes of the day). Most likely if I set it this far back then I could definitely make Perseus the dominant hero of the day....maybe set it in his waning years, with him ruling over Mycenae proper. This would mean Medusa is dead, but her sisters Stheno and Euryaile are still lurking and plotting the slayer of their sister's downfall.....another plot hook for young heroes.

Being fantasy there may well be some races to interact with. Obviously we have centaurs, satyrs and cyclopes, but the Telchines of Rhodes would make an interesting addition as well...possibly others.

Anyway, that's what I've got so far....

Dude,

Really wish you were in the Colorado Springs area.

Heroic Greece (Trojan War and the earlier myths) is my favorite roleplaying setting.

My best,

Mark

So close yet so far! I'm down here in Albuquerque, NM. if the wife and I ever move up to Colorado I'll let you know (the idea has been tossed around on a couple occasions)

I have to second both previous suggestions. Warlords of Alexander is an excellent free supplement detailing the post-empire era. Mazes and Minotaurs (http://storygame.free.fr/MAZES.htm) is a D&D retro-clone, more fantasy-oriented, but provides eight 40- to 80-page magazines worth of fan-created scenarios, monsters, adventure locations, etc., to fuel your campaign regardless of what system you use.

That's pretty cool....thanks for the specific link. Considering how into the OSR scene I am I am surprised I never stumbled across Mazes & Monsters. Hmmm!

I had forgotten about Warlords of Alexander....think I have that archived somewhere, will have to investigate. Thanks also for the tip on Mazes & Minotaurs, I hadn't heard of that one before.

No problems! And i would love to do a revision, but I don't know how that works for the monographs. The thought is there, and the original AH doc has had a couple of edits since Chaosium started printing it. I guess it shouldn't be too difficult... I might bring it up with Dustin, if he isn't too busy.

Oh, you are REALLY gonna hate my next one then.... Maybe I'll send a copy to you for proof reading...

LOL I'd be more than happy to proof if you like!

The only thing wrong here I can see is that this book isn't out and in my hands yet =)

Plus, it sounds like you're making this a really distinct, interesting setting!

Really looking forward to this. Planetary Romance and weird science pulp adventure in an RPG is like peanut butter and chocolate, plus there aren't nearly enough books exploring this genre out there (pretty much GURPS Planet Krishna....Savage Worlds Mars....Space 1889....and I think that's it.)

Just curious if anyone knows of any material for (or plans to do a monograph on) Ancient Greek adventures with BRP? I'm looking at using GURPS Greece right now as an overlay with BRP as the rules, but thought I'd check and see if anyone knew of any additional resources that might be useful. Offhand using the sourcebook for core campaign content plus BRP Creatures, Gamemaster and Magic along with the main book should give me everything I need for easy conversion, I think....but a dedicated resource would still be even handier.

Turning in to a good summer for me....I have two groups, one that is interested in Cthulhu Invictus and another that wants to roll up classic adventurers in Homeric Greece...! Good times.

So far you're all in my good books. Despite Camazotz's harsh words about my formatting! (Alright, I'll admit my formatting is kind of lame...)

Sorry! I always hate coming off harsh....the formatting issue may be unique to me, so don't take it too seriously....I use Witchcraft as written for both my modern horror games and my fantasy games, its a great book.

A typo, my apologies...

Yup I've been reamed for that a few times as well. My single biggest regret and mistake.

Well there are hundreds of tribes and thousands of gods, spirits and other monsters. I just wanted to get the flavour across. Sorry but that one is on purpose for this book.

Actually you're only the second person to mention that. In Aces High they are there as an option, use them or ignore them. I notice you didn't mention the Satanists or the description of Mormons or Priests or religion in general, all of which I take massive liberties with. I don't really know much about old witchcraft in America and didn't really consider it 'core' enough to spend months researching. If you're after witches read Byrons book, its much more detailed than my single page. All I was trying to do was make the possibility available.

All things considered, I think you've spotted the things I would have done differently if I'd known what the hell I was doing It was written with more enthusiasm than considered thought and I am working on a second mono to support it, which should also address exactly some of the criticisms you have brought up here.

Thanks for the frank words. I do honestly appreciate them.

Sorry for sounding so harsh...I actually quite enjoy Aces High otherwise! I just have a real tough crowd for players. If you ever manage to do a revision, I'd be very pleased. I think I (and my crew of players) are a bit more detail-obsessed about the genre because we're all natives to New Mexico and Arizona, and we all are archaeology/anthropology buffs with an almost OCD interest in all things Native American and historical for the region. That makes for a really tough crowd, I'll admit.