Scorus

5 hours ago, lordabdul said:

The thing that surprised me more was not so much the lack of information on mines in or near Dragon Pass, but the lack of information on resource acquisition/trade routes/etc.

Yeah, I think there are great opportunities for someone to write about the economics of Dragon Pass and Glorantha. The original writings were focused on spiritual and military, RQG has amplified the deep social aspects of the world, the time is ripe to flesh out the economics.

6 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

The Trickster can't use Lie to say "You need to kill Harbast before he kills you". Lie is only for giving (false) facts IMHO. Which is how it is decidedly not "mind control", and how the GM can keep it from becoming over-powered and game-breaking.

This is the kind of guidance that I was looking for when I started this thread, a somewhat objective limitation on the spell.

8 hours ago, AndrewTBP said:

A quick search for mines in The Guide to Glorantha shows there are all sorts of mines in all sorts of places.

I'm only seeing a handful of non-Dwarf mines and no quarries. Nothing in Dragon Pass, for instance.

Is mining and quarrying the exclusive province of the dwarves? I've looked through my pdfs and can find almost no mentions of it, though obviously the many metals, gems, and stone needed for all sorts of things must come from somewhere. But I don't remember seeing mines or quarries on maps, or reading that mining or quarrying was part of a clan or tribe's economy. Is it a sacred process that only dwarves are allowed to do (i.e. Mostal is to mining what Dormal is to seafaring)? I would assume at the least that elves mine copper and trolls mine lead, since they aren't getting that from dwarves! But how about humans?

In the absence of guidance on this important area, several authors in the Jonstown Compendium have put ideas and even mechanics forward. Someone mentioned Secrets of HeroQuesting. 6 Seasons in Sartar had some interesting insights and examples, though I don't believe mechanics. In a Merry Green Vale, which is generally much more about backstory than mechanics, does lead you through a long and complex heroquest with mechanics.

No, I didn't see that as having a negative effect on farmers or farmland in my clan (Hiording). I could see some reasons why it could:

• The clan is adjacent to Boldhome.
• The clan had more than a few losses in the Dragonrise, disrupting the harvest.
• The clan is north of Dangerford where Lunar troops would be living off the land, as it were.
• The clan had a large lunar troop contingent that wasn't killed in the Dragonrise and that cleared out their storehouses before fleeing north.
• You want it to.

And I ignored the premise in the book that the omens for 1625 were negative because of the Dragonrise. Negative and positive are relative and I think Sartarites were in general pleased with the events of 1625.

This isn't the 1623 migration, is it?

The biggest issue that 1 adventure (not session) per season has caused for me is that time passes very fast. If you start a campaign in 1625 and you want your players to be involved in the high level stuff going on as far as the Lunars, Kallyr, Argrath, etc. then you don't end up with time to develop much in the way of other storylines. I've gotten around that by having the whole Lunar to Argrath transition occur over a much longer period, but having more adventures per season might also be in our future.

After a cave-in, my players want to get back into a cavern. They have no mining experience or knowledge and their first thought was using an Earth Elemental, since one of their number had recently been buried by one.

If they only need to get in and out, could a medium or large elemental basically escort one of them forward, temporarily carving out space for them as they go? Probably would need to bring a small air elemental with them to breathe?

If they want to actually build a narrow passageway, it seems like a large elemental could open up a 1m wide x 2m tall x 5m long tunnel which they could then shore up while it holds it open (presumably using an Extension spell). Then move on to the next 5m, etc.

Anything I'm missing here? Would the Command Cult Spirit need to be extended along with the Summon Elemental?

15 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

Yes. Not attacking you. Just looking at it from another perspective. I apologise if it came off as agressive.

No need for apologies! I just realized that I needed to get an IMO in there!

15 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

Additionally the conditions aren't medicalised in Orlanthi society. They're not something to be cured, but a calling from the gods. The way you are born or initiated is what you are. I don't see the Orlanthi looking to "cure" these.

This is the point I was trying to make. People whose personalities had significant changes might be seen as needing a cure of some sort, but those born with it are just how they are supposed to be. Though individuals might see it differently.

15 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

* Uleria as the treater of Relife Sickness?

A good Uleria priestess can cure what ails ya!

Where are the Major and Great Temples to Orlanth in Sartar? The RQG book lists the Clearwine temple as a Major one. Would all the tribal capitals have Major Temples? Would all the cities have Great Temples? What size would the temples at the holy sites be (Kero Fin, Old Wind, Hill of Orlanth Victorious, etc.)?

One of my players has asked the clan shaman if she can contact his Uncle, who is missing and he is afraid is dead. Summon Ancestor only works on the caster's ancestors, so that isn't helpful. The character and his two siblings are the closest living relatives that they know of and they haven't seen the Uncle in over 10 years. How difficult would this be? What would the shaman need from the character? What would they charge the character?

13 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

Or it could be that they were chosen early to a form of Shamanhood, Odayla, or other esoteric calling. It does not have to be a negative. The star can just be unusual instead of wrong. That said anything that drives a person to Eurmal is pushing the boundaries. Though I do use it for cases like the village idiot, where someone who is kin still needs a place in the clan. #notalltricksters

Good point, and these are all just my opinions! More conservative people, which I think many Orlanthi would be, would believe that unusual=wrong. Most Orlanthi non-shaman parents would wonder what curse was on them that THEIR kid was born to be a *gasp* shaman! Similar to a family with a rich warrior tradition that ends up with a Chalana Arroy or Nandan son. One of my players is a son of a noble Orlanth-worshipping family who ended up with the Water instead of the Air rune dominating him. He is not an outcast by any means, but there is no question that the rest of the family feels that there is something very wrong with him (and, in fact, there is a magical reason for that which he is unaware of). And I'm still trying to figure out how his mother will react when they discover that his loyal Orlanth brother actually wants to be a Vingan! But only the most extreme cases would result in an Eurmal or charges of a chaos taint.

In general, people who were born with something like schizophrenia would not be viewed as sick, only different. They would not be blamed though their parents or clan leaders might, depending on what the difference ends up being blamed on/caused by. I would expect divinations to be cast to discover what ancestral wrongs need to be righted. And if I had someone like that in my campaign I would not seek to cure them so much as figure out where they fit into the extremely diverse, and honestly wacky, world that is Glorantha.

A concept such as mental illness would only be applied if there was a change in someone. If someone has a significant, long-term change in their personality then it would be attributed to magical causes such as being cursed, infected by chaos, relife sickness (post-resurrection syndrome), possessed by a spirit, etc. Shamans and divinations to the character's deity would probably be part of the diagnosis process.

For someone that was born with or developed something like schizophrenia from a young age, it would be considered how they were supposed to be. It could be attributed to a curse on their parents, being born under the wrong star, etc. and would mechanically be represented through their runes and passions. Probably a high Disorder rune, most obviously, and some screwed up passions. The more severe cases would be assumed to either be Eurmal or a taint of chaos, bringing shame on their family.

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

I would have expected the major temples to work analogous to urban guilds - effectively a clan of their own, headed by the resident high priest(ess).

In my game they are theoretically administratively separate, but in reality they are heavily dependent upon each other politically. You can see that in the Colymar/Earth Temple relationship in the GA. The Orleving conquered the Greenstone Temple area from the Varmandi in days of yore and you can bet they made sure that their own people were the next generation of leadership.

9 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

the question is who will engage a spirit combat with animal ? to do what ?

I see is no reason to do that if you're not a malign spirit or a shaman able to possess the target. And both have enough power to overcome a standard creature, intelligent or not.

The main magic spells to manipulate animals are more with a POW resistance than spirit combat.

To kill it, mainly. Reduce it to 0 magic points and it is unconscious.

Big animal, huge fangs, big claws, tough skin. Choice of trying to take it down with a group of warriors and take your losses or sending a mediocre spirit to take care of it pretty easily.

Giant birds, cliff toads, dinosaurs, mounts, sakkars, shadowcats, tuskers, enemy clans' cattle, giant spiders, giant beetles, sky bulls, sea creatures, some chaos creatures. All of them can very easily be taken down by a discorporate player or summoned ancestor, with hardly any risk.

The spirit combat rules (like the combat rules) seem geared toward combat between intelligent creatures and not animals. If they only have a base spirit combat % and, with an average POW and no CHA, a D3 spirit combat damage, even the largest and fiercest animal or elemental is an easy kill to a decent spirit or discorporated player. Is anybody doing anything with these creatures to give them a fighting chance in such scenarios?

8 hours ago, MOB said:

Yep, Mostali society resembles Alpha Complex, with the clones all professing to be loyal citizens yet each harboring guilty secrets, heresies, and mutations. The World Machine is your friend...

I played a game at a Con back in the 80s or early 90s that used this as its model. It was either an RQCon or a DragonCon. Did you run that, by chance?

Thanks for these answers and opinions! It sounds like the majority believe that Eurmali should be given enough rope to hang themselves and then quite literally have that happen when they go too far. But allowing a wet-behind-the-ears initiate with a low POW use a 2 point rune spell to initiate mass suicide by telling a whole clan meeting that "You desperately desire to stab yourself in the heart over and over right now" just doesn't cut it for me. It is the difference between making them believe something, which is what I think the spell was intended to do, and making them do something. If every Eurmal is a Kilgrave, then that becomes the story line.

Are brand new Crested Dragonewts still being created/laid/whatever?

34 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

I know that this is confusing because some spells mention the resistance roll (POW vs POW) and some other don't, but, in fact, all spells except noted otherwise require a resistance roll.

It's an interesting question however (and not addressed in the rules) what happens if the caster fails the resistance roll... would the target be aware of it? I'm tempted to say "yes" at least in the case of a fumble. I might be a nice GM and let the target stay unaware if it's just a normal failure.

Wow, I didn't realize that! Still seems a little on the powerful side since it could make someone commit suicide!

Since this spell specifically says it is undetectable, I would think it would not be 'felt' if it failed.

The way that the Lie spell is written, it could be used to force a character to do something. A simple "You desperately want to..." or "Your family will be killed if you don't..." would result in them doing something they wouldn't ever do (jump off a cliff, attack their friends, give them all their money). I'm guessing this wasn't the intent of a spell that doesn't even require POW vs. POW? If not, what language would work to prevent this?

The text of the spell:

This spell can be cast undetectably right as a trickster tells a lie. Anyone hearing the lie automatically believes it to be true, no matter how outrageous it is. They continue to believe it until they have incontrovertible evidence of its falsehood, or for at least one full melee round in any case.

47 minutes ago, Fedman Kassad said:

Sidebar Question: Do Dragonewts have their own currency?  What do they use for money/trade

They may keep some around for when they need to work with outsiders but have no need for it within their society. Even their trade with outsiders would mostly consist of trading items, food, information, etc.

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

Trolls are no worse than Eurmali or Storm Bulls as player characters. Caveat emptor.

Well, except for that whole thing where they are constantly fighting the urge to eat the rest of the party, though that might be true of the Eurmal also...

3 hours ago, Beoferret said:

So, another question! Who's more alien in their mentality and culture: dragonewts or mostali? And if you had a player who wanted a character who was one or the other, which would you allow and why? Which race do you think would be easier to play? Which would be more interesting?

For me, it is dragonewts by a LONG shot! In my game, Mostali approach science fiction style robots (somewhere between Blade Runner replicants and Star Wars droids). They take rational approaches to fulfill goals from short-term to millennia long. When they need a new tool, they create a new appropriately classed dwarf. They have individual personalities and creativity, expressed more as experimentation than art, but would be much more predictable than any other race if you knew their capabilities and mission. And they have the ultimate in patience!

Dragonewts, on the other hand, are inscrutable. Utuma is the important thing, but I don't think that humans actually understand it. Their experts think they do, and some are undoubtedly a little closer than others, but in general they are just kidding themselves because they attempt to define and understand it within a vocabulary and context that is not only wrong but completely irrelevant to dragonkind.

That said, there are absolutely exceptions to these generalities for both the Mostali and Dragonewts! There are colonies of dwarves that believe they need to incorporate non-Mostali thinking into the great machine. For dragonewts, there are individuals and small bands that deny the dragon way, giving up immortality for personal freedom. Either of these could be interesting, and still in many ways alien, PCs that would come with their own innate enemies.

That said, if I had a player that wanted to play an Elder Race I'd nudge them toward Aldryami. With GM creativity, they wouldn't have to divorce themselves from their race (allowing them to participate in the social/family aspects of the game) and could join a cult that works similarly to that of the other players, while still remaining alien.