Bren

Me and RPGs go waaay back.

Try this version. It seems to work for me. I like the elemental runes for the skill categories, but the extra runes seems a bit cluttered in the weapon list.

RuneQuest_Glorantha-Character_Sheet_Fillable_Runes 1.0.pdf

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I think we can blame D&D for that specific subject.

I don't think we can, really. The equipment list in my OD&D (1974) rules simply lists "sword" and the Player's Handbook for Advanced D&D and 1st edition Runequest were both published in 1978.

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Think I mentioned that early on, and I still say go for it. You paid for the game, it’s yours!

Indeed you did. Always good advice.

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

Bastard swords are a comparatively Late Medieval development.  It is not a type of sword that is compatible with a bronze-age setting, or with bronze as a material.

But two-handed swords still exist in Glorantha, e.g. greatsword, rhomphaia, and sickle-sword are each listed as 2H weapons on the Swords and Daggers table on page 208 of RQG. So I don't see how the material can be an issue.

I understand how one might argue that they don't fit what we know from the artifacts we have from earth's bronze age. However, I don't think there are a lot of intact bronze age weapons. (I could be wrong, I'm not a military historian or archaeologist.) So absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In addition, bastard swords have been part of Gloranthan culture and present in published materials about Glorantha until this most recent addition, RQG.

I've been playing RPGs for a long time (1974) and I still have my original RQ2 and RQ3 rules so I'm perfectly capable of including bastard swords if I want them, YGMV etc. etc.

And I'm not arguing about whether bastard swords (or any other weapon) should or shouldn't be included.

What I'd like is to understand is what went into the design decision to remove a weapon long present in the setting. What factors were part of the decision e.g. strict extrapolation from Mediterranean Bronze Age cultures, fidelity to available Bronze Age art work, new ideas about Gloranthan culture, mechanical reasons for balancing weapon choices (bastard swords were arguably the hands-down best 1H weapon for most adventurers in RQ2 and RQ3), or something else?

Thanks for the answers. Pretty much as I expected. There aren't AFAIK, a lot of intact Bronze Age swords, but it seems a bit odd to have broadswords and 2H swords, but no lengths in between. The idea that the Cult of Humakt includes the knowledge for making and using longer swords is interesting. I may do that.

I'm also curious why spears were similarly changed. Removing one-handed long spears doesn't seem to fit a Bronze Age ethos or epic descriptions of the heroes and their weapons. It also complicates the weapon choices for some Yelmalions since they can't use their long spear with one hand and an active shield nor can they throw a 2H spear.

Examples of epic spears:

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BkXXI: The death of Lycaon

 

“So he mused and waited, while Lycaon came to him, eager to clasp Achilles’ knees, and cheat vile death and dark destiny. Noble Achilles raised his long spear, ready to strike him down, but Lycaon stooped beneath the shaft, stumbled in and clasped the warrior’s knees, so the spear, though eager to glut itself on human flesh, slid over his back, and fixed itself in the ground.”

BkXXI: The death of Asteropaeus

Achilles carries a shield and his “long-shadowed spear.”

Asteropaeus, who leads “the long-speared Paeonians,” wields a spear in each hand.

BkXXII: The Death of Hector

 

“Achilles approached, brandishing his great spear, and the flashing of his arms was like fire or the sun when it rises.”

Marc, I sent you a PM.

I'm curious why is the bastard sword missing from Runequest in Glorantha? It was present in both my RQ2 and RQ3 weapon lists. Bronze greatswords exist, so the issue can't be one of metallurgy. Why the deletion?

My Sword of Humakt PC keeps asking me this question and I don't know what to tell him.

Do vendref self-select to worship Humakt or are the Grazers choosing particular children to train up as elite warriors?

Are these elite Humakti bodyguards similar to real world Jainissaries?

15 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

There is a wonderful community content book by Jon Hunter that might have what you need called Rubble Runners. The Dregs of Clearwine by the Beer with Teeth crew, and Austin Conrad’s The Heortlings of Sartar rounds this out.

I just picked up Heortlings of Sartar. A quick printing and skim through it tells me I will find this very, very useful. It is fairly generic, so suitable for reuse, but it includes enough color to give the GM something to start with.

Thanks for mentioning it.

I'm enjoying your write ups. Your comments and suggestions are especially useful since you are running about a month or so ahead of my group.

10% is 20L.

3 hours ago, Darius West said:

Good point, I had not read the Second Sight description closely enough or recently enough to remember that. 

I was surprised when I read the description. I had erroneously assumed that Second Sight would be useful for interacting with the spirit world rather than just a source of more information about the POW of corporeal entities.

On 5/15/2021 at 10:08 AM, Darius West said:

Yes, there are cult spirits, but the number of people with access to Second Sight is quite low, as it is not a common cult magic at all within the Lightbringer Pantheon.

Second Sight doesn't allow the caster to see the Spirit World. From page 264 of RQG.

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Second Sight
...This spell allows a person to view the POW aura of a living
being and to gauge its relative strength. This spell does not
allow the user to view the Spirit World. Shamans naturally
have this ability and do not need to expend magic points to
use it (see page 358).

That said, it seems reasonable to me that there would be a small, non-zero portion of a Heortling (or any other culture) population who would be skeptical of (or even quietly disbelieve) claims of divinity. As just one example, if apotheosis is possible (and various myths say it is) than an alternative conclusion to mortal ascension to godhood is that the gods aren't any different in quality from mortals like you, me, or some some heroic ancestor. Those entities that we call gods are just more powerful.

12 hours ago, svensson said:

In comparison to their flanks, where the hide is thickest, absolutely. And being ruminants, their lips are surprisingly dexterous and flexible, much like a horse's.

Yes the lips were quite soft.

10 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

My headcanon is that they love pats and scritches and are very gentle around Rhino Rider children (if somewhat dangerously clumsy/nearsighted).

The one I met certainly did. And carrots. He really liked carrots.

21 hours ago, svensson said:

A million years ago, before the advent of the internet, I played a Praxian Rhino Rider and decided to do some research into rhinos, their habits and so on. While I'm in no way an expert [I've only seen a rhino twice and I've never touched one], the research did give me some valuable insight on the breed and, by extension, the people who might use it as their totem animal.

The hide on their face is surprisingly soft.

Yes that map is gorgeous.

A 100% increase in price at each step in a distribution chain is a (very rough) rule of thumb that I've seen used. This article on tea gives a good example.
 

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Most small retailers who are selling a packaged process will expect 50% margin (a 100% markup).

The math would typically work out to something like this: A wholesaler buys a tea for $10 a pound and repackages it in four, 4 ounce packages. Let's assume the packaging costs $1 each. The wholesaler will sell each package to a retailer for $5 each, netting the wholesaler %6, or a 30% margin (on $20 in gross sales). The retailer then sells each package for $10. A larger wholesaler might get the same tea for less than $10 and thereby get a higher margin. In addition, more elaborate packaging may reduce margin by costing more than $1 per package (including tins, labels, etc.)

 

And here's an example for prices from farmer to wholeseller where the markup is a bit over 100%.

What a great story! I love what your player tried to do as well as how you chose to handle it. Also I find what you did a good example of how to make the Rune affinities behave more like the Pendragon traits. (Conceptually I find Pendragon traits easier to wrap my head around than the sometimes similar yet sometimes different Gloranthan Runes.)

Oh one more thing, I forgot to mention problem #4, which is inherent only to the Orchards map. Don't know how many folks have paid attention to the scale on the map (which is measured in kilometers), but were it correct then Swanston would need to be included on the map. Instead of 1 km increments, I changed the scale to 0.1 km increments. Which is a pretty easy edit.

On 4/27/2021 at 4:47 PM, Scornado said:

The Apple Lane Orchards map is nice but just does not match the village map or the smaller scale map of Colymar Lands in the GM pack.  I am slowly making a replacement in Campaign Cartographer so that the Thane knows what he holds.  I am a bit anal with maps though.

I resemble that remark.

On 4/27/2021 at 6:47 PM, lordabdul said:

Redbird Fort is on the way to Jonstown, so I think we're talking about roughly the same thing.

I understand what you meant and I think I may like the overlay you did better, but it does conflict with the Apple Lane Region map I mention. Here's what that one looks like. Note the dashed line to the north and the solid lines to the east (Redbird Fort) and west (Runegate Fort).

Aside from a complete redrawing, I think you may have the best way to marry the two maps together.

14 hours ago, lordabdul said:

The oldest map from the RQ2 Apple Lane scenario pack does have a compass. As you might expect, North Street goes north, so that will let you orient the RQ3 and RQG maps.

The RQ3 left off the compass, though it was included on the floor plan for Gringles, so I drew it in on my village map. Sadly the lack of a compass seems to have carried over to RQG.

14 hours ago, lordabdul said:

This is trickier... I think the Apple Lane Orchards is just completely wrong -- the 4 roads, the orientation, I can't make it fit the other maps.

AFAICT the "North Street" is actually a misleading name. The road between Runegate and Jonstown is, overall, going west to east. But does an "S" shaped bend around Apple Lane: coming from Runegate (travelling east), the road bends southward, enters Apple Lane from the North (via "North Street") and then exits it eastward, to continue towards Jonstown. I think the other exit (to the west) leads to Asborn's Stead (see the Colymar Lands map) and probably catches a trail going south from there to Clearwine Fort.

Take this with a grain of salt though because I agree it's tricky to figure out how it all fits.

I don't know what you mean -- I see the same buildings with the same rough arrangments.

Note however that more than a decade (in game) passed between the two maps. The RQ2/3 Apple Lane is pre-Dragonrise, and things have changed. That's why, in RQG, Gringle's Pawnshop and Piku's house are in ruins, for instance.

It is reassuring that others have the same issues I have with the Apple Lane Orchards map.

I think you are wrong that North Street leads to Runegate. Page 11 of the RQ3 copy of Apple Lane has a map "The Apple Lane Region" that shows a road going east and west through Apple Lane. To the west it leads to Runegate Fort. To east it leads to Redbird Fort. There is also a dashed line (presumably a trail) that goes north possibly leading to Black Altar. No roads or trails are marked going to the south. I can't access my scanner, but once I can I'll post it. I think North Street is intended to go north into Gejay Hills not to Runegate.

5 hours ago, David Scott said:

Bodge it. Drop the RQ2 map onto the new one:

Though a kludge it does seem like the best solution. And it answers the question of what roads on the village map are which on the Orchards map. Thanks. I'll try editing a copy of my map to do exactly that.

I'll check it out, thanks.

I don't find the isometric map to be too much of a problem. The way I scaled it in Roll20 the side of the Tin Inn to the left when facing the gate, has very close to the same length as I get for the isometric view of Tin Inn alone and about the same relative distance as the Tin Inn on my RQ3 Apple Lane map. That's not to say Apple Lane maps are free from scale issues. My RQ3 map has a scale of 1/16" = 5 meters, which would give the Tin Inn an 80m frontage (nearly the length of an American football field). Gringle's Pawnshop has similar scale issues. The cardstock map that is included has a scale of (roughly) 3 cm = 5 meters which makes the Pawn Shop 55 meters long, which again seems too large given the contents of and purpose for many of the rooms. But at least the detail map yields the same distance on the room map and the village map.

I'm running Defending Apple Lane this coming weekend and I'm trying to reconcile the various maps that are available. The black and white map from my RQ3 Apple Lane module and attractive semi-3D map on pages 70-71 of  the Gamemaster Adventures are easy to match up. The problem is with the map in the PDF of the Gamemaster Adventures (CHA0429 GM map pack page 4). This map is labeled "Apple Lane Orchards" and it includes locations for the 5 tenant farms (1. Rastolf, 2. Ivo Stone Brook, 3. Rotroot, 4. Caleb the Black, and 5. Kalla). While it is nice to know where these tenant farms are located and to see the areas for the hides of land, I can't figure out how to align the roads and directions of this map with the map on pages 70-71.

Problem #1. None of the maps indicate compass directions.

Problem #2. The GM Adventures map on pages 70-71 (and the older RQ3 map) both show three roads leading into and out of Apple Lane. The Apple Lane Orchards map has four roads. So which roads on the Apple Lane map match up to the Apple Lane Orchards map? The Apple Lane map has one road marked #3. The Locations key identifies this as "North Street." Which road on the Apple Lane Orchards map is supposed to be "North Street?"

Problem #3. The two maps don't appear to have same number or arrangement of buildings in the central ares of the hamlet of Apple Lane. Is there any way to reconcile the two?

Can anyone help explain this?

Huh. I didn't notice the plinths on page 40. Thanks for pointing those out and I agree with your analysis.