Ian A. Thomson

UPDATE Fabian still hasn't received the POD of Vol. 04 to check, but fingers crossed for any day now The next Volume (4A - a special edition) of the P&BRC:DC series should be fully complete within 1-2 weeks After a marathon bunch of hours over the last few days, all that is left to complete now is the second half of a new scenario Otherwise it's all done! Cover revised, back cover started and finished today Most of the proofing is even done! :) Thanks once again to all the collaborators, without whom this would never have been completed, let alone completed this month!! UPDATE 21 MARCH I have failed in the goal of getting the Strangers supplement completed before I go away for 2 weeks tomorrow I still have a few hrs of work on the final scenario to do (the plan is now complete, I've just got to fill it in), and four small illustrative segments still remain to be returned from the awesome collaborators. Positive spin is that the book is 98% done now, and so should be completed within a few days when I return

If you are asking if there are any more in note form waiting to be upgraded then no, that's all now. The archive is empty I did just go and check the Pelgrane Press website, and there are multiple broken links on my pages, so i tracked them all and sent them the details in the hopes they will fix them These include broken links to three free downloads: 'The Guide to Old Romarth', the 'Guide to Saskervoy Town' and the map of the 'Saskervoy Reach'. So there are technically these three final pieces still to appear. (I sent them the files to add back in)

My sense now is falling for a middle ground approach. Sense Chaos being only rollable twice, Stormbulls comparatively rare, few Bullies having a high % in the skill, positive hits not being directional and perhaps could be spirits or other Chaos things rather than people... It seems this would be enough to ensure secrecy in any large settlement, and become problematic only if the number of Chaotics grew. IE if many Stormbulls are getting hits then you can be pretty sure that 5%+ of the population are Chaotic now But yes, what about their accommodation/base, and when they are asleep? Not all bases can be 15m or more below ground. So I'm keeping my spell that protects their sacred precincts so they can rest easy and perform rites etc. Outside of that for most of them it is a matter of avoiding Stormbulls etc, but since the False Form spell exists I've also invented another of shorter duration that Rune Level chaos cultists can use to temporarily suppress their taint from detection. (Troop of Stormbulls, or Praxians with several Stormbulls ride into town around a corner by surprise - I can't see powerful intelligent Chaos cultists having no ability to obscure themselves even if just temporarily.) But this could be a spell lasting days, so yes, allowing Chaos Rune-Levels to infiltrate social or political groups even in a culture/settlement where Stormbulls are relatively frequent

Both could have merit though One seems to be very self-focused (the more active mobster ideas - rather than just paying for protection) And the other (Chaos mercenaries in battle) more of a cultural necessity (at least perceived) The latter is being used to save their whole clan/tribe/culture from annihilation cos they don't have enough warriors of their own. The former is part of self-benefitting chicanery where one gets personally involved with the Chaos/mob (more actively emulating them)

That is good politicking!

This all makes sense, but if the Garhounders are faced with EITHER a harvest that means people (inc children) starve next year (if Daro wins) OR facing up to the Lunars to say that a Chaotic does not qualify as a potential husband of Ernalda, surely they would make that statement, even if they were sure that they would be ignored. Surely Lunar disrespect of such a ruling by the Garhound judges (by demanding that Daro cannot be eliminated due to being Chaotic) would be a fairly major socio-political incident, not just another casual brush-off by Lunars interfering with Dorasing traditions I can see Sor-Eel saying something like 'Let the gods sort it out' though. Avoiding responsibility rather than making a personal ruling. Throwing it back into the hands of Orlanth and Ernalda But even then he'd still be overuling the ceremonial leaders I guess if I was the Garhound elders and knew Daro was Chaotic, then I wouldn't ask any permission for anything, but just have him quietly killed. (Suspecting the lack of empathy from the Lunars.) "Oh, he just never turned up this morning. Last seen heading out of town with a fine lady, and never came back."

Not being within 15m of him How quickly can we get the local Stormbulls over here within 15m of this guy to see if they get any hits too

I like how this implicitly enhances the options for hidden Chaos in cities controlled by the Lunars, even if that hidden Chaos is working selfishly and doesn't necessarily align itself to Lunar interests. Good story fodder for mixed-up shenanigans

Not necessarily, and also not what I was suggesting The importance of the festival activities is very significant here Sun County: "the terrible blight of 99 when it was found that the winner, Squatbrow Broo-bane, had already taken three wives." My presumption is only that any such claim would be investigated due to the massive importance of the sacred validity of the contests, and I stand by that, at least as soon as it looks like he stands a chance of winning Someone from a god the Garhound Elders know to be valid says they have discovered a hidden chaotic embedded in one of the major rituals on which the settlement and surrounding lands depend on for their healthy survival...\ This is not something they are going to shrug off All moot if the False Form spell is canon though

Urox is part of the Orlanthi Pantheon, unless that has been retconned. Stikklebirixx is definitely an outsider of course, but Chaos Fanatics are known and accepted in this culture. An assertion would be investigated

I don't think the Rune spell 'False Form' is listed as being part of the ogre's repertoire in Sun County, but it would solve the problem if it was As much as I generally get what you are saying, I don't think Lunar tolerance/Sor Eel's presence would actually work in this case If the Stormbull manages to restrain themselves enough to rush over the the organisers (difficult but not impossible) and says 'That Daro guy is Chaos! I felt it earlier and just followed him around to make sure it wasn't someone else. Hell, yes I'm certain. He's got to be an ogre'" I simply cannot see the Garhound Contest organisers saying: "Well, because there are Lunars here, we will have to accept him as a valid suitor for Ernalda." The mythic implications of allowing this are too vast. They would have no choice but to act - at the least by rallying some more Stormbulls for confirmation So without the existence of the 'False Form' spell, this scenario is an example of the kind of scenario-challenge I am pondering But in this case, with the existence of the FF spell, it is a moot problem here anyway

Appreciating all of the input in this discussion Very helpful

Yeh, also something I've been considering

Yes, also something I am considering in the notes I am writing Currently I have a rune spell that makes a sacred Chaos precinct undetectable. Using Create Neutral Ground as a basis. Somewhere cultists can be day or night. No doubt also hidden, and has to be relatively small, but perfect for hiding in a settlement and knowing that no random Stormbull wandering home at night will accidentally find it Of course buried underground more than 15m does the job too, but not all places have that capacity (high water table or built on a solid bedrock)

@Diadochoi Yes, this also extends into my kind of ponderings. (Where is the reference for the Krarsht temple in New Pavis by the way?) >>The whole vagueness of within 15m helps,<< It does >>but any party worth its salt will get around this<< Exactly, Adventurers run by Players are notorious for innovation >>as will any half-competent settlement (as Ian has pointed out). << Totally. People can be really inventive, and given (a) enough time, and (b) the fact that these people genuinely hate Chaos... what major settlement wouldn't eventually use the Chaos sensers to get rid of all hidden Chaos. Even if most settlements don't for some reason, eventually one would, and another one would see their good results and also do it... >>YGMV, but in mine Sense Chaos only detects entries in the "Chaos Monsters" section of the Bestiary and equivalent (excluding Ogres cos of hand-wavyium). This enables Storm Bulls to do their fighting chaos routine without acting as massive spoilers for any "hidden cult/cultist" scenarios/settings.<< This is interesting. I need to think on this, as it might negate the need to invent a lot of new spells. I like the idea though of Stormbulls sometimes being able to detect hidden 'civilised' Chaos. So if there were spells to hide Chaos Taint, then Chaos humans could come to town to buy supplies. Some cunning ones could even live in town, and be ever-ready with the taint-hiding magic. After all, one thing about Stormbulls is that they are usually easy to spot

Yeh, this summarizes some of my interest very well

Yeh, I totally get that. That's not my pondering. What I am considering is that if people really hate Chaos, then any civilized settlement with Stormbulls around could organise something that enough Stormbulls would agree to (because it would be effective at uncovering any Chaos group residing there) Being few Stormbulls around certainly limits that potential Lunars not liking to have SBs around also does None of this solves (as mentioned above) the other potentially scenario-breaking element that having a SB in the party presents That also limits it, and is good to consider No, but again I'm postulating that any settlement that genuinely hates Chaos could eventually work something out with the local Stormbulls As an active thing that needs to be focused on AND it costs 1MP, now that IS an interesting idea. As it stands I think the skill is passive, but I am currently creating some in-house rulings, and I might make it active and add that cost. This doesn't solve my issue, but certainly helps. Added to some spells or abilities that some Chaotics have to avoid detection, that will probably do it I'll post my full ideas here later 'Sense Stormbull'? Could be a counter-ability. Again I\d have it as a special ability only available to Rune Levels, or a Chaos Gift option? I'm not so into the idea of False Positives with Sense Chaos. Mechanically it makes sense, but in relation to the gods themselves it basically turns Stormbull into a maniac murderer

I like the feel of this as the background reason why large groups of organized Chaos never set up in organised settlements - because measures could be taken. Such measures are difficult to organise, but very effective when they are, so Chaotics know that secrecy is crucial (and pretty much impossible if they have a large presence) I still feel that magical defences of some kind would be critical to avoid casual detection anywhere that Stormbulls exist and are sometimes in town Not that this needs to be 100% foolproof, but nonetheless available So that there can be some kind of balance that makes their continued existence believable in places where Stormbulls (and in my campaign, followers of Bisjoe and Jalmar) exist

Well, what I am considering is that any town with any money and any local Stormbulls wouldn't just 'try once' and then give up If they really want to get rid of Chaotics, there have been centuries now for some sage to think about the idea of organising and triangulating Chaos isn't some minor annoyance. If something is really desired, organised societies tend to find a way to deal with it, at least eventually And Chaos is the most hated thing in Glorantha So I just can't see nobody working out how to organise enough Stormbulls to track down any organised Chaos based in a town. Its a numbers game, not a statistics game. Throw enough Stormbull at the problem often enough and you can't fail. (Unless the Chaotics have some way to hide their taint, at least temporarily.) And in my Glorantha the idea of there never being any hidden organised Chaos in any civilised settlement in Glorantha is too much of a missed game-opportunity

Yes, this is a good technique that I have already used a few times for Chaotics. Totally agree But I'm thinking more broadly here. I don't want to use Illumination as a stock response in all cases. IE want to keep it for special cases My sense is that even if it's difficult and rather risky, there must be some way that 'civilised' Chaotics can expect to go into, or even reside in, normal societies with an expectation that they won't be instantly detected if Stormbulls appear. Something that also answers my query above, around how it would be easy to detect such Chaotics using a squad of Stormbulls if any city government really wanted to. Detect Stormbull spell maybe? (Spirit) Coupled with Hide Chaos Taint? (Rune) Hmm, also now thinking of a ritual that would make a small premises immune to detection - their sacred precincts which would also serve as their base and accommodation. So whenever they are there, no spells are needed as they are protected by a 'dampening field'. They may still need to rely on secrecy and sneakiness, and also can never have large groups present in any settlement, but small groups that reside in town, or groups of individuals that together or separately operate in the same town... Maybe it's even a special thing? Like 'Hide Chaos' is a spell only Rune Levels can learn? Making it rarer and even maybe expensive, although 1RP and stackable will still chomp up the RP if they don't want to gather attention by just up and running when Stormbulls appear

Thanks for that I'm wondering about things like game-world logic, and interested in gaming ideas to deal with this If all Chaos is automatically detectable, then its going to be near-impossible to ever hide by posing as non-Chaotic Every settlement could employ Uroxi or Stormbulls to just hang around and let the authorities know when they sense something Even if they take it in shifts of a few days at a time because they prefer to be out hunting it in the wilds, or whatever I can't see Chaos ever surviving in a hidden way in a civilised area. Not if people really want to get rid of it In story/game realism terms how can that be reconciled? Additionally, does any Adventurer party with a Stormbull in mean they can detect and try and find any hidden Chaos in a settlement, even if its only 6 people in some kind of evil cadre in a population of 300? I use that small settlement size cos it would be easier to hide in a much larger settlement (say 30,000) as the Stormbulls won't know exactly who it is even if they sense them. But even then, if that settlement really wanted to get rid of that Chaos after it was detected, they could just pay roving parties of Stormbull to triangulate until it was found I know Stormbulls are wild and unpredictable, but they also hate Chaos, so there would surely be some who could be persuaded to be organized at least for a few hours or days until the detected Chaotics were unmasked? 15m is a decent distance for an organised party of Stormbulls to cover a lot of ground, and see who keeps turning up whenever they get those weird feelings The only idea I can think of is a Rune spell that hides the Chaos Taint for 20mins. Its not perfect, as any big organised search would just take longer, but if the person had a few emergency RP it'd probably get them out of trouble, so as long as the chaos group in that place isn't known of, and they keep their eyes open for Stormbulls, I can see that being a good enough story element

I imagine that this has been discussed elsewhere, but can't find that information at the moment. What degree of association does a being need to register as Chaos? (Specifically to Stormbull's 'Sense Chaos') I imagine a human lay-worshipper of Thanatar might not, but that an initiate would? I'm considering house rules around game-realism, and wondering about sneaky Chaotics trying to blend into New Pavis society

UPDATE: The next series release will be a special edition. Probably completed by the end of Feb (Vol. 04A) Vol. 05 is powering along, but still a LOT of editing and layout to do - so more likely April My other gaming project is finally fully complete and online, and most likely my last ever DERPG release as these are the last of the completed pieces in my archive: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/469293/On-the-High-Road-to-Kaiin

VOL. 04 PDF UPDATED FOR DOWNLOAD: The revised PDF of Vol. 04 (The Good, the Bad & the Rowdy) has just gone up on Drivethru Gratitude once again to the several proofers for the first and second rounds. (Plus all the other volunteers/collaborators). I'll keep on saying this until the project is done: There's no way I could create this series without your help. "Thank you so much!" Here's the change notes: "Updated cover, very many small corrections made, several middling level errors fixed, and three doozie mistakes rewritten." Yes, there were a few big 'Doh!" moments there, including a couple of scenario bits that made no sense I'm glad I included the note in the front of the first version for people to wait until the update. I imagine there's probably still a bunch or minor errors in there, but yes, hopefully not so many and not major

Good summary Not sure if I said this before, but the idea of having an option for a faction of non-mainstream Lunars who side with the Old Pavics has always been at the back of my mind, and I think right at the start of writing the campaign for Tentacles Press 20 yrs ago I even made some notes about how it might work I stopped when I realised that such people would have to betray the orders and agendas of their cult leaders in order to take that alternative allegiance, and couldn't see how that would work It's probably a lot easier to write adaptation notes for the small group of specialist Lunars with the secret agenda of subverting the plan, who are operating in secret from most of the other Lunars, but being pro-Pavic myself, that wasn't something i wanted to apply myself too