Ian A. Thomson

Twenty years ago I was one of the editors and contributors for something called 'The Prax Book' that was a fan-made product that was being prepared as a submission for Issaries Inc I'm pretty sure it never saw the light of day, but as an editor I saw/had an advanced copy, and there was a sh*t tonne of articles written The problem we had was that Issaries was asking us for less, not more, and a series was being mooted Anyone else remember that? Have a copy still?

Chan-Rolla? Brain tells me that was the name Praxians gave to Chalana Arroy in whatever list I can remember reading 2-+ years ago Does that ring any bells for anyone?

Peter's email just bounced from his website. Anyone here in touch with him? Perhaps on social media? (I'm not on any Soc Med.) I was in touch with him back at the start of this project, but have no record of what way that occurred. I presume it was through his website email, but it might have been via someone else.

Thanks Peter Yes, I thought that might be the case But I am guilty in the new series of 'unabandoning' things that I like, and I would like to do so in this case too, so if anyone has access to that material I'd love to hear from them :) Basically it just feels interesting to me to present a game where any Praxian Adventurers who join the campaign worship exotic and different versions of the familiar gods that reflect their Praxo-centric myths. I think it will add to the story richness. And a great illustration of this would be the different names

I think the Praxians call Chalana Arroy the White Lady? I believe they also had different names for Orlanth, Issaries and Humakt. Does anyone have access to that information? What I most need are the names that were originally given, as I am merely mentioning the differences. And any simple and basic description of how the Praxians see them differently This is all stuff I think I recall from Drastic: Prax which I no longer have, but I could be mistaken

Minimal paunch yet I am happy to say, but saw Hawkwind 3x :)

Oh we have nightsoil carts as well back in Pavis City. Servicing the larger poorer areas that aren't connected to the sewers, plus collecting animal waste etc. And indeed maybe the main big tunnels are in fact mostly for storm drainage? As long as they exist is the main thing. Must research the Paris sewers and see what the specs are.

I think Chaosium are great in supporting the YGWV standpoint. That's the way to support creativity, and they do it wonderfully. Plus, as the host company they have every right to establish a consistent game history. Individuals may not agree that all of their choices are the best, but so what. Someone has to helm the ship and that's fine by me. I will continue to stick to main canon events as much as I possibly can without diluting the original vision Greg and I developed for the Grand Plan Greg didn't even agree with all of my proposals anyway (though there were very few he had a complete stand against, such as he said there were definitely no major sewer tunnels under Old Pavis like there are under Paris, and well... there totally are in my Glorantha. Its just too much of an MGF idea!) I see it all as multiverse variants! :)

Perfectly reasonable question Vol. 04 is the first one where these pivotal events start to be significantly introduced (proclamation of the Wedding of Pavis, meeting the Grey Company, meeting two of the main protagonists...) Vol. 05 has the first of those actual historical events in :) I have my own big list which only solidified into first draft a few weeks ago, so isn't yet ready to publish Message me with examples of what you would expect to see, and I will consider putting a version of such a list in Vol. 04. (At least the first half of it, with maybe the second half in Vol. 05) Oh, and at the crescendo of it all I vary from canon in terms of what specifically happens in Pavis (not in terms of the broader historical events). Greg and I had a whole other theme in mind for the grand finale of the grand plan, that was being discussed and considered for canon around 1999/2000. (Since then officially abandoned, but not by me!) :)

All good It made me take note to clarify an aspect of the campaign background in the series Very useful :)

There was a rather lively (and totally valid) discussion here on the attitudes of Praxians (a very broad culture indeed) towards Pavis in my campaign (being somewhat varied from the canon), that an admin has moved to be its own new thread. (Thanks for that. I had no problem with the discussion, it just developed its own identity quite quickly.) It has inspired me to write a short piece of clarification for the current work in progress book (Vol. 04) where it fits very nicely. So it was timely as well. You can now find the discussion here:

Yeh, if you mention that they need to be at least neutral towards the city ("Each to their own strange ways.") then that will be fine. There will be Praxian enemies in later scenarios, and these will not be considered problematic by a big chunk of Praxians who are indifferent to the city or (as discussed above) broadly dismissive of the alien ways that they don't want in Prax. But that big chunk just needs to be more than a tiny minority. Doesn't have to be the majority. It just isn;t some weird splinter group amidst a culture that are broadly fine with the city. Point being that in this campaign, the Praxians as a culture are NOT broadly comfortable with the city.

I have mentioned in the original thread specifically that I am talking about my campaign and not Gloranthan truths And discussed it in some depth Your points here seem totally reasonable as to how Prax works in the canon details In my campaign the smouldering threat of Praxians is greater

Wisdom worthy of Pavis himself. I am deliberately working with cultural negative cliches, and am a former student of real-world imperialism and (unfortunately) historical instances of cultural toxicity, which no doubt impacts how I slant the framework in which Pavis stands amidst the Praxians. In game terms of course the 30% of more tolerant Praxians predominate anyway, and the 'distant fuming other' with 'hatred in their bones' is more of a deliberately dramatic emphasis to support the sense of isolation of the city. It's also a rather poetic turn of phrase of course too Most Praxians who pass through Pavis County will be the ones who are more akin to the attitudes you stated so well above. This is such a worthwhile topic that I wish we had it in it's own thread.

I may not be communicating as well as I could, either here or in the writing. This campaign ran twice and never at any moment did it lack an internal consistency, or not make sense to people. All your points above make sense, and were never an issue in the actual running of the campaign. Passive racially/culturally motivated passionate dislike is not the same as active violent hatred, but does support a sense that many nomads resent and disrespect the city. I would totally agree in my campaign that 'some Waha Khans' have the extreme view and indeed are extremists compared to most Praxians who, like or dislike the city, just want to live their lives with as little disruption as possible.

Makes sense. Not taking a disagreeing standpoint. Again just my interpretation for considering the backdrop of my campaign, that being able to call on a large number of people more than happy to smash the city and its inhabitants means that they didn't much care for that city in any meaningful way. I'm just not imagining them in the midst of slaughter and plunder ruefully reminiscing on how much they enjoyed a quiet drink at Gimpy's with old Gnarly the dwarf. Pavis (in my campaign as I frame it) is just a place that most nomads don't respect, and that they regard the inhabitants with latent hostility. Maybe its just good dramatic tension, though I don't feel its an idea based on completely spurious cultural or historical precedent.

This is an excellent description of how in my game that 30% I mentioned would feel. I just like having a bulk of simmering 'culturally prejudiced dislikers' hanging around as a background threat. Plus, descriptions of how the city gets smashed officially in 1625(?) also to me suggest that not far beneath the surface is a very strong cultural disrespect or at least utter lack of concern for the lives of those living within

Sorry, should have clarified that this is what I built into my campaign. Not any attempt to describe canon I absolutely based on my interpretation of thorough examination of official sources (lists of historical events and descriptions of cult values etc), but nonetheless I then interpreted those sources to extrapolate current attitudes Also 'semantics'. "Look down on, regard with quiet contempt, see as grossly inferior to the ways of Waha, would never go there under any circumstances because stone walls are for the weak and pathetic outsiders who don't know or honor the true way." In short strong, cultural prejudice, not in most cases leading to active energy to destroy

Yes, I can clarify. My sense of the Praxians is something like: 40% of them despise the city and want nothing to do with it 30% are neutral and dislike it, but use it because its handy 10% quite like what it offers as a variation and are happy to visit and even stay nearby for a while 20% think it is an utter abomination and would like it wiped off the face of the lozenge, but never have to go near it so don't give it much thought Culturally my sense is that they are supposed to actively hate it, and that it goes against the precepts of Waha, but that most Eirithans counsel tolerance

Heyo @mal Questions are welcome, especially if they help you enjoy the campaign even more :) Its all about religious loyalty really Waha worshippers are the issue. They hate Pavis in their very bones, and so don't work as main PCs living in the city and working towards the greatness of Pavis. They just have negative motivation to do so But exceptions are totally fine. Nick's response I think is meant as an example of that. Praxians who worship some other deity tolerated or accepted by the Waha Pantheon (e.g. Yelmalio Bird-Rider from Vol. 01 (p126) which is provided as an example of such exceptions. Such people who live in the city would also be exceptional individuals anyway. Having some reason: 'a strange calling', 'having been fairly or unfairly ousted from their clan and feeling abandoned by their own people', 'just being someone who is curious about other people different to oneself' Some of these ideas are actually discussed in the books, so you'll find that as you read through them There is some writing somewhere pointing out the fact that all PCs are exceptions anyway. Different to those around them Then there is also the Zebra Tribe: Praxians who love the city Literacy is another question, but we can just look at history - people commonly signed by making their mark, and yes someone would read out the terms and conditions, and those who could afford it would hire someone to read for them. I would also say that literacy (basic at least) was far higher in Pavis, with simple classes being part of what is provided by the Pavis Cult. In my version anyways Hope that helps

To whet the appetites, the basic contents list of Vol. 04 is now finalized. It may of course change a little, but based on my experience with the previous books it feels like this is the solid basic model now: VOL. 04 - CONTENTS INDEX PART ONE: FORTS & TEMPLES IN THE RUBBLE.. 6 Zebra Fort (Peter Johansson, Sten Åhrman & Ian T.) 7 Zebra Stockade ..................................................... 17 The Salt Mine Forts .................................................... 18 Fort Wyvern: Lunar Guardpost at Wyvern Gate ...... 24 Griffin Gate Blockhouse: Lunar Watchpost ............. 25 The Yelorna Temple .............................................. 26 The Old Mint (Lowell Francis, Sherri Stewart & Ian T.) 30 Holiday Glorantha: Mani’s Fort (Ian T. & Greg Stafford) 40 The Old Pavis Dragonewt Temple........................... 47 Traversing the Big Rubble ...................................... 51 The Walls of the Big Rubble .................................. 52 PART TWO: FRIENDS & ALLIES OF OLD PAVIS .. 57 The Urban Orlanthi (basic Homeland details) ......... 58 The Real City Armed Escorts .................................. 61 Old Pavic Contacts (By Ian T & Oliver Dickinson) ... 64 Yelornans of Old Pavis (Ian T. w. Jane Williams) .... 67 The Jalmari (Michael O’Brien, Tim Leask & Ian T.).. 69 The Silent Swords [Jalmari Heroband] (by Michael O’Brien, Tim Leask & Ian Thomson) ... 72 The Dylfings (Mani’s Clan) (Ian T. & Greg Stafford) 76 The Indagos Family .............................................. 79 The Getenak Tradition (Ian T. & Greg Stafford) 80 Aldryami of the Big Rubble .................................... 87 Creating a Pavic Elf Adventurer .................... 91 & 92 The Sap of Shanasee (Elf Warband) ....................... 94 Aldryami Cult of Halamalao [shortform] ................ 95 The Gardeners of Pavis: Old Pavic Heroband.......... 96 The Great Gardener (Pavis subcult for Aldryami) ... 97 PART THREE: CRIMINALS & ENEMIES OF PAVIS 98 The Black Fang Assassins (Ian T. w. Greg Stafford) 99 Thief Cults of New Pavis (brief notes).................... 103 The Dustbowl Circus (by Mark Galeotti w. Ian T.) . 104 (Lunar Intellignce Agents) Gim-gim the Grim (Ian T. w. Darius West) .......... 106 Dolphins Street Gang (RQG Stats: Gerard Crowe).. 108 Sarken’s Gang (L. Francis, S. L. Stewart, S. Lucek) .. 110 Cats of Ilsar [Foreign Mercenary/Bandit Gang] (Lowell Francis, Sherri Stewart w. Ian T. & S. Lucek) . 118 Notable Lunars (RQG Stats: various authors)........ 121 Lunar Collaborators (RQG Stats: various authors). 124 The Anti-Coders (Ian T. w. Jerry Edmondson)....... 127 The Taint of Chaos (in Old Pavis)......................... 132 PART FOUR: REBELS & INDEPENDENTS .......... 136 The Rowdy Gang (Ian T. with Oliver Dickinson) .... 137 Chhotmai’s Spice Kitchen (Steve Dornan w. Ian T.) . 144 The Mysterious Griselda (by Oliver Dickinson)...... 145 Pavis Beggars’ Guild (Michael O’Brien w. Ian T.) ... 146 The Lost God (Beggars/Criminal Cult) ................. 150 The Uz Mercantile Association ............................. 154 The Red Stallions Outlaw Gang............................. 156 Mapiri: Pavis Hero-Cult (Ian T. w. Steve Dornan) . 160 The Nameless Man (Humakt subcult) ................... 161 The Grey Company (Original idea: Peter Maranci) .. 162 Leonardo the Scientist......................................... 164 PART FIVE: FOR A FISTFUL OF LUNARS ........... 172 Introduction to the Scenarios .............................. 173 A Time for Heroes (campaign timeline details) ..... 175 At Home in New Pavis ........................................ 179 The Loyal Apprentices (Pavis Cult Social Clubs) .... 181 The Griffin Gate District........................................ 191 The Streets of Manside.......................................... 194 Wyvern Gate District ............................................ 195 The Zebra Ruins ................................................... 196 Big Rubble Random Encounters (Clint Staples) ...... 197 Ghosts & Visions in the Big Rubble ........................ 199 Rodenta Implausius (David Millians w. Ian T.) ....... 200 (Rat-Folk of the Big Rubble) PART SIX: ONCE UPON A TIME IN PAVIS ............ 202 The Curse of the Copper Condor (New Pavis mystery) ... 203 A Very Long Engagement (The Wedding Planners).. ?? The Yelorna Temple Raid....................................... ?? Meldek! (A foreign wizard arrives in New Pavis!)..... ?? Kakstan’s Art Museum .......................................... ?? Liberating the Old Mint (L. Francis, S.L. Stewart & Ian T.). ??

Zebra Bridge Tolls Am thinking the following amount needs to be revised, with maybe a sliding scale depending on the person's status 6 Lunars seems a heck of a lot since a noble's standard of living according to the RQG Rules is only 200L per year Maybe I should change Lunars to coppers? Even that seems high, but then these people are little more than bandits. (Impoverished Manside/Zebraside Locals are exempt as long as they are registered with the Fort Staff.) Opinions welcome "Hargran has a squad of the Fort Guard stationed by the bridge at all times. Their job is to keep the area under surveillance and collect toll from bridge users. The toll has, since Hargran’s take-over, been one silver per leg for each of those who cross (i.e. two silvers per man, and four per beast)"

Can you be more specific? I think the original campaign began around 1617. But which activities are you asking about? The troll contests would likely have been 1622/3 The Rough Guide will reappear down the track in this series. Pauses to check. 831-850 is known as 'The Construction Phase' Indagos definitely. Desolation Hills definitely We are waiting for the proof copy. Can apparently take a few weeks. Then we need to check it simply for any major formatting errors, so as long as its all good, it can be released as soon as we check it. Thanks to Fabian for doing that, and to Nick for creating the POD version I'm just glad people like the work!! I loved writing and playing it Please leave us a rating on Drivethru if you have the time :)

That makes sense to me Hmm. I would imagine that it was some grazing land close to the city and any 'holdings' were just temporary camps. So the Patroma took these lands over and started settlements on them. Violating the ancient decree that they were grazing lands I would say not Zebraside, as this belongs to the Old City, not to the zebra people The Zebra Tribe now have new lands right on the edge of the county

Pavis & the Big Rubble: The Good, the Bad & the Rowdy (1620 ST) Vol. 04 is taking shape a little faster than previous volumes due to a lesser percentage of new material to be written, reducing speculated workload from many many weeks, to just many weeks :) HUGE gratitude once again to the volunteer/collaborators who have stepped up to assist what would otherwise be an impossible task!!! :) If you read this and might have an hour or two to spare for some basic proofing/reviewing work from an 'interested/informed reader' perspective please drop me a line. All supporters will be credited in the book on which they help, and anyone with time to do a bunch of support work can of course have a free copy when it's done