Harshax

But perhaps was to "Real" for us.

I am a big fan of both systems and love parts of both.

I like BRP/RQ combat but love D&D magic.

I prefer BRP/RQ skills but love class roles.

I can appreciate all these sentiments myself. But why muddy; if I may call it that; BRP waters with D&D's exception based mechanics? (feats)

The new BRP offers rules for more heroic characters (HP = SIZ+CON, Splitting Attacks, Fate Mechanics, Dodge vs. High Velocity Missiles). Sure, Powers need a little love, and there are a couple of things in the works to fulfill that need. Class roles are easily handled with Step 6 and professions. Plus, it's very easy to write more professions.

Don't get me wrong. When my RQ stuff was in storage, and the latest edition of BRP wasn't even being playtested, I very much did the same as you. Nevertheless, I know of one other member on this forum that uses D&D Magic almost right out of the box. You both have some interesting ideas, if you're willing to collaborate.

Ok, I got a little lazy through the doldrums of L and N, but I think I have a decent list of candidates worthy to add to the Magic spells. Tell me what you think. Am I missing any that deserve the BRP treatment?

Animate            Grant ambulation to an object                      

Acid               Ranged, does 1D6 points of acid damage per level            

Alter Reality      Create something out of nothing                             

Augury             Divine the outcome of a future event                        

Charm              Force an opponent to see you as friends, or allies as enemies

Cure               Fight the effects of disease or poison                      

Discorporate       Spirit leaves the body and travels elsewhere                

Emotion            Alter a person's emotional state, such as Fear, Fanaticism or Confusion

Fist               Creates a spectral force that can injure, grasp, or impede movement

Illusion           Create false perceptions of any of the 5 senses             

Incompetence       Decrease skill by 5% per level.                             

Mastery            Increase skill by 5% per level.                             

Raise Dead         Bring the dead back to life                                 

Slow               Decrease MOV rate by 1 point per level                      

Speed              Increase MOV rate by 1 point per level                      

Weather            Create, increase, or reduce weather phenomena               

Web                Spews a sticky barrier that restrains those it captures     

I'm toying with an idea for this writeup. I was reading some other threads about BRP support. I don't have the inclination (desire, ability, or time) to write anything meaty in support of this game system, but I think I might have an interesting alternative. Why not write a minor supplement? A short section of new spells, like the ones listed above, and cast of interesting NPC mages, and some interesting adventure seeds that illustrate the kinds of awful mischief players may encounter when faced with magicians that wield this kind of power?

Oh! There was one more spell I was inspired to add from the very good old days of D&D: Fist. A spell for creating a small moveable wall, holding enemies, or punching them.

Still don't have my notes with me, but I'll post a few complete writeups tomorrow.

So far it has done a good job of walking the line between the two game systems.

I'm curious. What line were you crossing that merging the two games together fixed? I've played a lot of RQ and a lot of D&D, and while I've enjoyed each to one degree or another as well as been inspired, I've never quite gone down the path your group has chosen.

Of course, this isn't the feedback you're looking for, as I really have little interest in playing something other than BRP, but I am very interested in what you think BRP is lacking.

[PS - I did convert d20 to classless d100 at one time. I used the standard D&D Characteristics, and Size categories for races and monsters, but turned everything else into standard d100 Roll Low, and ditched just about everything else. Hit Points were CON x Size Modifier, eg. Large Creatures had HP x2. I used the old Spell Point system for spells, with all damage defaulting to a number of dice equal to the spell level.]

Since you're going for broad scope would it be a good idea to expand this to an Influence Emotions spell?

That's exactly what I'm going for, and am purposely taking baby steps to get there. I too realized that a broader Emotion spell would be more suitable than a simple fear spell, as it would cover sympathy, antipathy, confusion, and fanaticism.

So far I've gone through A - C in the SRD, noted that the BRP spells handle a huge majority of them, and have about a little more than five spells that would be worth writing: Animate, Emotion, Alter Reality [think Glorantha style Illusions], and spell for increasing/decreasing skills. There are a couple more, but I don't have my notes with me.

fmitchell I sort of agree, but the sorcery system expands the list of spells at the expense of utility. Magic Sharpen works on all weaponry, while the Sorcery spell list has one spell for each major type of weapon.

I think there's something to consider there too. Sorcery spells always work, have a maximum level, and narrowly defined spells. Magic spells are skills, have a very high maximum level (compared to Sorcery), and broadly defined spells. Clearly the designers felt that the narrow and Automagical nature of Sorcery was balanced by broad, skill based magic.

Lord Shag I appreciate the offer, and do look forward to seeing what you've written up, but there's more to this than beefing up the Powers Chapter. I haven't written anything in a good long while, and I need to stretch those mental muscles. But if what you've got cooking is anything similar to my approach, I hope to be plagiarizing some of your work. :thumb:

Ok, so many of you will remember the old Fireblade from RQ.

I'm working on other Elemental Weapon buffs.

I've got the Windblade and the Earthblade, but I'm having a lot of trouble with the Waterblade. Any ideas/suggestions? I'd like it to be about on par (in usefulness) to Fireblade.

I assume Wind or Earth causes knockback?

Give Waterblade a chance to reduce the opponent's DEX by 1d6 [6 maximum], as their clothes get waterlogged, or they begin suffering from chilling attacks.

. . . and doing so sparingly.

I've been meditating (yeah, meditating) over the magic chapter for a couple of weeks now. The spells therein are for the most part, quite powerful, and broad in their application. With only 30 spells, BRP manages to distill a good majority of spells found in games like D&D into a few broad powers.

As a personal exercise, I am browsing the SRD, spell by spell, and looking to match their effects to an existing BRP spell. The trick however is making sure you understand the full extent of a BRP spell's power.

it's apparent that the game methodology behind 3.5 is different than BRP, in more than an obvious way. D&D is set up to solve problems with magic. Spells like Animal Messenger have incredibly long durations, granting characters the ability to simply dismiss challenges that are beneath their accumulated power.

In BRP however, problems are solved by characters actually going out and doing things. Magic helps a wizard in the same way weapons help a fighter, and a ruler helps an engineer. Magic is only a tool, not a mechanism to dismiss challenges in the game. Keeping this in mind, I found that many spells simply do not fit in BRP. These spells could be easily added, but I am ignoring them.

I treated the BRP spells as a baseline for new spells: Short durations, broad in scope, and amoral.

Breaking out the SRD, I went over the 30 "A" Spells presented in 3.5. Most of these spells already receive a good treatment with BRP's Change, Enhance, Control, Perception, Vision, and Wall.

There were about 7 spells that didn't really fit any of BRP's magic, and might make good candidates for new spells. These are:

Acid (Acid Arrow, Acid Splash, but not Acid Fog)

Animate (A. Dead, Objects, Plants, Rope, and Awaken)

Augury (Augury)

Boost (Aid)

Fear (Antipathy)

Projection (Astral Projection)

Warn (Alarm)

The following spells were ignored: Arcane Mark, Align Weapon, Atonement.

Arcane Mark has such a low level effect, that it might be a non-spell for someone with high enough POW, while the other two spells deal with character morality.

Seven spells might seem like a lot, but I think that those seven, if properly written will be very applicable to a good majority of the spells found in the rest of the SRD.

Anyway, I started this after being inspired by MurfinMS. His monster write ups are a welcome addition to BRP's bestiary, and it's super nice that he shares his work with all of us. I want to try and do the same, but with Magic, so if no one minds, I'll be writing up a few spells, and posting my work.

For now, here are my thoughts on the Animate spell.

Animate

Range: 30 meters

Duration: 15 minutes

Power Point Cost Per Level: 1

This spell allows a character to animate a single non-sentient object or plant. Each level animates up to 3 SIZ points, or gifts the object with 1 INT point. If the target of the spell is in the possession of a sentient being, the caster must overcome the target's POW on a successful resistance roll.

An animated object can be willed to perform a task, such as move or strike at a nearby creature, with a base chance to hit equal to the caster's DEX x3%, and doing 1D6 +db damage with a successful hit. An object has a STR equal to its SIZ. Non-intelligent objects will perform the task once, and then stand idle until commanded again.

If the object is granted INT, the caster may give it a single sentence instruction for every point of INT granted by the spell. Animated creatures have 10 HP for every 3 SIZ points.

If desired, the gamemaster can substitute the objects hitpoints with more realistic values derived from its composition.

The archer example is a great point and something that (*gasp, horror*) I think that new edition of /that other game/ handles very well... allowing wizards a reusable blast ability that is on par with an archer's arrow that they can use all day long. I'm uncertain how to fairly model this in BRP, but I'm working on it. If you play a wizard it's because you want to blast thing (well, generally) and BRP's roots in RQ never allowed for that.

I think I'm going to lower the spell costs, or at least add a tier mechanic.

My reasons are similar to yours:

1. If you want to be a blaster, go for it. Mechanically, a wizard is no different from a Archer in this regard.

2. I need to figure out a tier mechanic, because at 1P/Level, the temptation to nuke powerful foes is too great and anticlimactic.

I'm thinking that the cost for these boom spells might increment every 2 levels. For example: Blast

LVL     Cost  Minimum INT

1  1d6  1     -

2  2d6  2     -

3  3d6  4     -

4  4d6  6     -

5  5d6  9     -

6  6d6  12    11

7  7d6  16    13

8  8d6  20    15

9  9d6  25    17

But you can only solve so much of the problem with rules. Like Frogspawner has mentioned, you have to adapt play to the gameworld. This goes beyond the availability of amulets. This goes to tactics -

Be ready to interrupt a spellcaster. If you're an archer, and you notice that the wizard is spending several DEX ranks casting a spell, shoot him. The guy in the robe? Shoot him. The guy with the staff? Shoot him.

These tactics are a natural evolution of magic use in warfare. Much like tactics changed with the advent of the stirrup, the rifle, the tank.

This is very satisfying and Old School. Too harsh? Then don't listen to The Harshax. >:->

Uh, spoiler?

I've played CoC for years, but was never aware of that fact. I'll now faithfully roleplay going indefinitely insane . . . .

In thinking about having Elric enter

a 1920's Cthulhu investigation, you'll note that Elric's POW is rival that

of Great Cthulhu's.

I'm not going to argue with your main point because I'm thinking about reducing the spell cost of the various "blasting" spells for Sword & Spell for this very reason. But I just want to point out one possible error in your above example, If I am reading it correctly.

Everything is correct except the example INT 13 wizard would still be able to get the spell off in one round because a 4d damage magic missile spell would be 4 spell levels, not 12 as I think you're implying.

If I misread, you I apologize.

Edit: Actually, I'm not changing it in Sword & Spell as much as adding an option to this effect. That way, those that are thinking about picking it up to add some new spells to their BRP games will find them already balanced with the ones in the core book.

Carry on.

Rod

You're right. I was determining the spell level by multiplying the cost.

A 4d spell is still 4th level (not 12th), but costs 12 MP.

I'm also realizing that I have the option of letting a starting magician begin with both a staff and a familiar. So a completely average character might have a starting reserve of approximately 30 MP. (Assuming 11 POW for the PC and Staff and 8 for the familiar)

In light of the extra MP from the items, I see the problem is partially solved, so I need to reconsider my math.

Likewise, a wizard firing magic missiles stacks with the efforts of an archer, fighter, etc., while a wizard doing cow transmogrification doesn't.

And this is precisely my argument. It doesn't stack. If you have a 10 or 11 POW, you might be able to cast between 5 and 6 blast spells over the course of a day, whereas an archer will probably have much more ammunition.

If you look at their activities mechanically, the archer and the magician are doing the same thing; doing 1dx damage at a distance; but the magician is constrained simply because it's "magic". True the archer is limited by availability of ammunition, but that limitation is easily overcome, because missile weapons are common, and archers will normally arm themselves with a large supply. And while it can be argued that an archer could lose his weapon, and be imprisoned without his tools, the same can be said for the magician.

Vagabond - You're right about the spell cost. In my example, I could still only affect one individual. (But it is still cheaper to neutralize a creature with Change, than it is with Blast).

Arch0n - I disagree that damage stacking and transmogrification do not stack, since the end result is the same: target neutralization.

sdavies - I can only agree that the magic system in brp may be more similar to the romanticized fantasy/mythology, but there's not a few examples of people being struck down by lightning or turned into stone in mythology. Also, per my OP, I am trying to emulate a more high fantasy style of magic.

All - Maybe a cow can still do something (runaway, cause interference, bite, or maybe not down an opponent), but it is far less deadly (and easier to kill) than say . . . a knight in fullplate, wielding a 2 handed sword. Whose afraid of a SIZ 13 cow?

I was describing the Magic Powers system to a potential player, and he was turned off by how expensive a simple "magic missile" spell was. Being familiar with other brp games, he said the costs of the various "boom" spells seemed cost prohibitive. And while he appreciated that the rules wouldn't stop his wizard from also being a competent swordsman or archer, the system seriously constrained his image of a wizard who relied primarily on their magic for attacks.

So I did the math (Approximation):

It costs approximately 12 MP to kill your average human with Blast. (average 3.5 damage per die) This would require approximately 2 Blast spells and two combat rounds, since the average human (INT 13) would be limited to Level 6 Spells.

But for 5 magic points, the same wizard could transform the average human into a cow. And for 1 more MP, I could transform 1 of his friends as well, and still be in the Level 6 Spell Limit.

So, for half the magic points, and half the time, a wizard could neutralize 2 human sized creatures for 6 MP, versus blasting 1 human to bits.

Separating Cost and Complexity

I was thinking of splitting Cost & Complexity of a spell. Cost would be the MP per level of the spell. Complexity would determine how much a 'level' of a spell counts toward your INT maximum.

By separating Cost & Complexity, you keep a magician from casting uber-powerful spells, but you make their cost more (or less) reasonable.

I was thinking of changing Blast, Flame, Frost, Heal, and Lighting from (3) to (1/3) which means it costs 1 MP per Level, but the spell counts as 3 per level against INT maximum.

What do you guys think?

Since I'm a newbie to BRP, what can you suggest about statting out this dude? Any ideas?

I think it is important to note, that the stats given in the book are for classic Romero Zombies - slow, stupid, and easily avoided. You could use the Zombie stats as is, but give them a normal range for INT and POW (or whatever the creature's INT and POW were in real life). Make them faster by giving them normal human movement. Give them armor (even with the 1/2 damage from most attacks, a happy ZK wouldn't risk getting killed again. Besides, old habits die hard.)

as for other abilities . . .

I'd give it a horrifying maggot spittle attack. Older ZK's might have a constant cloak of flies that make it harder to hit. And ancient ZK's might have decomposed enough to become Skeleton Lords.

Anyone else come in here expecting "Spoon!"?

:thumb:

But the initiative system seems pretty good. Not sure I'd use it, in settings where DEX enhancement could push most combatants into the SR0 Rank, but it reads well.

I just want to tell you again how absolutely awesome this document is. There's some great jokes in there too. You *really* should figure how to publish this, even if you make a throw away setting. I've never played Traveler, but love the concept. I read Fading Suns, but walked away feeling it was Dune or Traveler for Dummies. (It had some neat ideas) There's a game out there called Lightspeed (I think), which is a kitchen sink of SciFi and SciFan.

I can't believe anyone with the patience to put a document like this together can't come up with even a paltry campaign premise in his sleep.

2. My opponent, with INT 17, starts casting Undo Sorcery on my Flames of the Sun.

So when do I cast Refutation? How long does it take to cast?

It can be cast in the same round as Undo Sorcery during the Powers phase, and will activate at the beginning of the next round.

Either Refutation allows you to break the rule of only being able to cast only one spell per round, or not. I would rule not. However, if you haven't cast a spell yet, or done another action, then you can immediately begin casting Refutation when someone begins casting 'Undo Sorcery'. However, look at the following:

A sorcerer will always recognize the effects of a spell he or she knows when it is cast, regardless of who is casting it.

I would extend this knowledge to knowing what spell is being cast. However, if you don't know 'Undo Sorcery', then your only option is to cast Refutation ahead of time.

The spell will take effect in INT order of the powers phase of the next combat round.

Based on your example, you can't cast Refutation before Undo Sorcery takes effect, because you already cast Flame of the Sun that round. But generally speaking, If you have a lower INT than your opponent, you can't counter Undo Sorcery by casting Refutation in the same round. However, nothing prevents you from casting Refutation ahead of time.

Hope this helps.

I just picked up a copy of World of Broadsword. It too, is a serial barbarian inspired world where chainmail bikinis and battle harnesses are serious forms of protection. What is really great about the setting is the 1 page outline of each city. This book provides a wealth of sword & sorcery story hooks, and for 4 bucks, it is great inspirational reading. Don't bother to get the 1pg Broadsword game, unless you want to use those rules. BRP/SB1 works very well for this setting too, and provides the same level of 'sit down and play' as the 1pg game. That is of course, if you've written up a nice gazeteer of ready to use adversaries.

I'd like to add one more thing as far as price goes.

This may be particular to my previous groups, but one thing that was always encouraged was other players running games sometime in the future. One GM would finish his campaign, and then he would get to play. I know a lot of GMs that never (or never want to) play on the other side of the screen, but that just hasn't been my experience. If your group is anything like mine, there will be players itching to run games with a good rules system.

If all your rpg books exist in a big hippy community pile, to be used by any GM, then you have no problem. Otherwise, investing in a game like BRP has a lot of advantages. It offers wide support for a number of genres, is very flexible and can handle a lot of customization without coming apart at the seams, and is very transportable. As previously mentioned, it's also cheap, so aspiring GMs can purchase their own corebook and begin work on the next campaign for the group, without depriving the current GM of his rules reference.

Now I'd like to add two pieces of sober criticism, for balance sake.

BRP is not designed to achieve an arbitrary sense of 'game balance'. While games like GURPS, 4E, and others are obsessed with such a thing, BRP (like many games of old) is not. That means Elves are in many ways superior to Humans, without some mandated counter balance. A character with a higher INT than her fellow will have more skill points, without some arbitrary reduction in Hit Points or Luck. Most everyone who likes BRP finds this idea very satisfying in gameplay. Those who don't like it, can use the optional point buy rules presented in the book.

The second piece of criticism, is that BRP doesn't come with a default game world or implied setting. If you're a GURPS gamer, you know exactly what I'm saying, when I tell you that you'll want some source (game related, fiction, or otherwise) to help you apply the rules and mold your campaign. Thankfully, this isn't very hard. In fact, I own a half dozen GURPS sourcebooks specifically for their use in crafting BRP games. (Mars, Space, and Aztecs are some of my favorites)

The rulesbook has devoted several pages to outlining a number of genres, and provides suggestions for which optional rules to use, in order to best emulate such gameplay. Playing High Fantasy? Then you'll probably want to discard Hit Locations, and use the Skills Above 100% rules. Playing modern horror? Then the Education attribute, and Sanity rating would fit the genre nicely. etc. etc. The suggestions go on to suggest which skills might be more or less important, and which professions (think broad templates that guide a player's skill purchases) would be suitable to the gameworld.

Ok folks. Until next time.

Happy New Year.

Uh, they cut that rule from the final draft, but it is still an Option on page 283.

Easy to learn

Yes. BRP's entire task resolution system is percentile based, and uses a d100. If you have a 50% Skill with crossbow, you have a 50% chance to hit something. Simple, huh?

No minis/battlemat needed

None needed.

No advantages/disavantages system

None present.

Inexpensive for the other players to begin

One book. Covers most all genres. $40 US? Or a lot less for the PDF. But seriously, how many books do you really need? The rules don't require a lot of ingame referencing for anyone but the GM, and his/her ever helpful sexy assistant.

Some tactical depth

Aside from choices players make in regards to weapons, armor, etc, tactical depth is something players bring to the table, not the other way around. See, when it is an everpresent danger that your character can be killed by a critical hit, you tend to use your noggin. BRP isn't one of those games where (and I mean no disrepect to 4E) your players will have tactical discussions such as this:

Fighter: I'll hit the ogre with Strength Unimaginable.

Arcjer: Cool! That stacks with Shot of infinite Boneage.

Wizard: Ok, I'll mop up with Rain of Horrible Death.

BRP has spot rules for a variety of maneuvers, but mechanical driven tactics require more effort from the GM, both in terms of setting up the scene, and applying the rules. However, if you follow these boards enough, you see a few of us discussing things like adding SW's elegant Trick mechanic to BRP, especially for Taunt, Intimidate, and Dex Tricks. But it isn't like you need our help. Read the Spot Rules, and you'll soon learn that they are nothing more than years of GMs like yourself logically applying the existing framework of BRP to special cases.

You can expand the Combat rules, and add a little more crunch, such as Hit Locations and Strike Ranks. Strike Ranks add some depth, especially if you think dagger wielding characters might be tactically disadvantaged against someone wielding a broadsword.

And there you have it.

Here at work, but still enjoying the holiday spirits. Hope the same for all of you.

:shocked:

Just WOW!

I should have the completed rules up by next year. (Ha! That joke never gets old).

Finally dug up my Ars Magic rulesbook, and I hope to get some guidance from that book in order to provide a better framework for my magic system.

Hopefully, I'll end up with something that both scales a little better, and provides a wider range of effects than the RAW.

I've pretty much exhausted my ideas, but will revisit this thread if anything comes to mind. This has been a pretty fun exercise for me, and I would definitely like to see a player's handout or write up when you're done.

As I ponder the shape of my own campaign in the works, I realize that I am going for something very similar to BoL. Maybe a little less sword against sorcery, but assuredly pulp, two-fisted, and episodic.

Thanks!

Trying to suggest a few more things . . .

Have you given any thought to popularly known/feared deities? It seems in keeping with the trope for you to have several, but they are not organized to form a complete religious outlook, nor do they belong to the same pantheon. Further, they're usually dark and dangerous.

This next idea is tangential. After a Xena marathon, my friends and I tried to imagine a fantasy earth that had all the classic ancient cultures but had an overall planetary size much smaller than our world actually is. You could for example travel from ancient greece to someplace like far east Kitai, and visit the court of the might Khan in a couple of weeks, instead of months. This idea seemed to justify how Xena was able to travel great distances, and more importantly, why it seemed that there was such a mingling of different cultures.

This guy insight into the tropes of Howard's Conan are pretty funny, and well worth the read. (Did you know Howard and Lovecraft were pen-pals? I had no idea)

Conan The Barbarian - Television Tropes & Idioms