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Robin "RoM" Mitra

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About Robin "RoM" Mitra

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    Exploring Glorantha since 1989.
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    HeroQuest (English and Deutsch) in the world Glorantha.
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  1. Thank you. I didn't realise that the text was changed. Almost identical passages appear in the other two books I mentioned above but without the bits you highlighted. I thought the books were still canon. I will yet have to determine how this is going to affect my Glorantha.
  2. King of Sartar p. 205 / Sartar KoH p. 207: "Marriage among the Orlanthi is a mutual bond between participants; it is both exclusive and monogamous." In my Glorantha this includes Underwife- and Esrolian Marriages. The main difference I see there is status and property. Anyway, thank you all for your help. I am running a campaign where all these questions are relevant at the moment. The player characters are not directly involved (i.e. neither defendant nor plaintiff) but they are neutral clan members who have the duty to investigate and eventually to recommend a solution. I am curious how they will decide.
  3. I am sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention to waste anybody's time. If I made a mistake it was an honest one. I meant that I knew the paragraph about bloodlines, but in my understanding it does not mention kinstrife, and the paragraph about kinstrife does not mention bloodlines. I therefore assumed kinstrife can also happen between different bloodlines of the same clan.
  4. I know the Orlanthi marriages. I would even say monogamy is *always* a part of it, and extended absence does not soften it. So adultery does not automatically result in divorce? Any objections? I know that paragraph. It is from the same text. But it doesn't mention kinstrife and from what is written I for one cannot deduce that kinstrife only happens within a bloodline and not a clan. What makes you say it is? Any views from the others on this? Ok, you convinced me here. 🙂 Thanks for the clarification. I like that idea. I think I will use it for my campaign. I don't think that is likely. First of all it would be a major affront. The household and next of kin would be embarrassed and ashamed, and it would certainly lead to outlawry. Secondly the clan chief usually has the means to execute his decisions. Otherwise he wouldn't be chief for long. Surely there are enough competent warriors who would love to kick the perpetrator off "his" land.
  5. First of all, thank you for the very many replies. They are very helpful. Some points are clearer to me now. However, I have still questions. I tend to disagree here. See SKoH p. 217: "Wergild applies only when a person kills or assaults a person from a different clan; it never applies when one member of a clan kills another – such murder is kinstrife and is beyond the scope of Orlanthi law and custom." It doesn't mention bloodlines. Also p. 276: "Since Starbrow’s Rebellion, the Colymar have been torn apart by kinstrife between two claimants to the tribal kingship, both from the same clan – Queen Leika and King Kangarl." Again it doesn't say they are from the same bloodline, and I believe they are not. I understand that compensation / wergild is only paid between clans. While a chicken might be private property and not so much the clan's I believe the rule stays the same. I agree. Still mundane jurisdiction would have to punish too. They cannot solely rely upon the gods to make things right. If the leaders failed to uphold justice they would become like Tragic King Errarth, who did not punish adulterers and had to pay for his negligence. Yes, but what if doesn't come to divorce? They might be several reasons why the other clan would not pursue this course. A divorce is always complicated and might be costly. In my example above it was a one-time lapse. The marriage may still be more or less intact. If there is no harm done to the other clan they don't have the right to compensation. Or does any kind of adultery always entail divorce? Can the chief really do that if two bloodlines are disputing? I agree with your view on cattle ownership and I like the idea of status punishment (lots of plot obstacles, although I don't know if that is really an option). But I disagree to the freedom issue, unless of course the perpetrator was outlawed first. Otherwise it should be impossible to impose a prison term or thralldom to an active clan member. If there are no mitigating factors people have no reason to stop after the first transgression. If it doesn't matter whether you have been unfaithful once in your life or every single day of the year, you may simply keep on doing it. It is possible and there are many RW examples for similar systems, but I find it odd. Yes, but I guess it still happens. There is a law against it, what means there is a need for it. Suddenly I feel old myself 😉 Sounds good. And 1. is only applicable between clans or between bloodlines as well? I don't see it that way. Modern gangs are rather small entities with laws the members have given themselves. If they have such laws at all and are not governed by personal prowess, charisma and intimidation. The Sartarites have an oral judicial system but they trace it back to Heort, Vingkot and Orlanth, even to Umath. On Lawstaff Day the recite all the important laws they know. That doesn't sound to me like like a juvenile gang.
  6. I wonder how criminal justice and punishment works within a clan. Both SkoH and KoS explain in detail how justice works between clans. It is also said that there is no law for disputes within a given bloodline. That brings me to my questions: Are disputes between bloodlines handled the same way as between clans? What methods of punishment exist beside wergild and outlawry? Wergild is only applicable between clans, and outlawry is only justified for major offences. Example: Two people from the same clan but different bloodlines get into a brawl and one breaks the other’s jaw with his fist or pokes his eye. That would be kinstrife and demands punishment. But what kind of punishment? Wergild doesn’t work but even lesser outlawry seems too harsh, at least in case of the broken jaw. Are there mitigating factors? Wergild is scalable from a single sheep to a large herd of cattle. Besides that there seems to be only lesser and greater outlawry. Example: Two people from the same clan come before the clan ring and without indictment they confess their adultery. It happened at Voria’s flower day, both feel very ashamed and it will never happen again. Surely it is still adultery and needs punishment. But it doesn’t seem to be as severe as a long and secret love affair that is only uncovered by divination or interrogation (scenes from KoDP come to mind). Of course there could be compensation claims to or from another clan for breaking the bond of marriage. But besides that, would their own clan still outlaw the culprits?
  7. Thank you @jajagappa I like that, especially no. 3.
  8. I have a Broken Tower question, too, and hope nobody objects to using this thread. I am running the Broken Tower scenario in my Eleven Lights series, with player characters coming from the standard Red Cow clan. For that I relocated the tower to Wulfsland on the old Maboder territory. What are your suggestions how Jomes Wulf could react once they break him the news of Idrima's existence and her temple on his land?
  9. I agree that all seven officers of the inner Lightbringer clan ring would be people, rather than the wyter, ancestors or a piece of regalia. As I understand most of you say Ginnar Jar’s seat is chosen just like any other seat. The chieftain appoints the person who he or she thinks fits the profile best, i.e. has a great sense of community, puts the needs of the many before the needs of the few, is rather altruistic. Once that person is appointed, he or she stays in office indefinitely. There are no rules and no system to listen to or in fact represent the other households, but it is up to that ring member to do the job to the best of one’s knowledge. Hm, I can see the point. Only I felt it was too ...well, too ordinary, I and was hoping for a bit more. But maybe that is just the way it is.
  10. IMO the connection to the Telmori is quiet interesting, too. I don't have any book at hand right now, but I think Kostajor is related to King Sartar both through maternal and paternal lines. His father was created/sired by Sartar. His mother Onelisen is the daughter of Saronil son of Sartar. Onelisen comes from Tarsh, but I don't recall a connection to its royal family. Onelisen is also connected to Prince Argrath (great grand mother?). Kostajor had four or five children, most of which died at the hands of Jomes Wulf.
  11. My question was actually not so much about the Who they would appoint (I am sure that is open to much debate and power brokering) but more about the How. SKoH says on a Lightbringer clan ring Ginnar Jar is represented by the heads of households. Now there are many households but only one seat on the ring. How do they do that? Would they simply choose one household and thereby ignoring that Ginna Jar is the community rather than an individual? Would they form a ring of households and send a spokesperson from among them to the clan ring? Would they take turns by season or year? Would they have other ideas how to represent a community on a single seat?
  12. A lightbringer clan ring holds seven seats for the respective lightbringers. While five of them are easily associated with an individual deity, Ginna Jar is represented by the heads of the households. But how does that work on the clan ring? There is just one seat for Ginna Jar. Do the households take turns? Do they have one representative for all of them?
  13. Great story. In my Eleven Lights campaign I will have the skald PC recite the Heler story during the Great Rain ritual, because the hunter PC made a deal with Voranga during The Missing adventure. @Bohemond I sent you a pm.
  14. Many thanks for all the answers. You are right, I will go for it and don't bother about the mechanism.
  15. I am preparing an adventure where the characters go on an otherworld heroquest (during the great hunt in Balazar). I would like them to return with a mighty prey (or maybe a giant bee). However I know that it is impossible to bring back an item from a heroquest and they cannot prepare an item in advance. What are my option? Any suggestions?
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