scott-martin

37 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

One likely candidate to handle the bodies, at least south of Alkoth and particularly in Saird, are the Jajalaring, the dog-servants of Jajagappa given Jajagappa's role as a psychopomp amidst the DH.

Love that. Their cousins might still be extant within northern temples as well, only completely unspeakable.

25 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Pottery, at least in Dragon Pass, Kethaela, and Maniria, I think is associated with the Earth goddesses. A subcult of Ernalda/Asrelia (let's just call her the Pot Goddess), she is the secret of making and decorating wombs of clay that hold grain, wine, oil, the remains of the dead, and much more. She is old - a daughter of Asrelia and Lodril, or perhaps Ernalda and Lodril (Earth cults often treat them as the same goddess, just at different stages of their life)

This raises the interesting and perhaps delicate question of the status and provenance of female Issaries in Esrolia. For me there's nothing shocking about a woman who moves her wheel into the Issaries workshop and bargains her own account. After all, it's just a quick hop from the Asrelia grandmotherly secret to Spare Grain and besides, the talking god is complex. But the mothers may have other opinions and in any event it's another thread.

On 2/24/2016 at 11:11 AM, Tymophil said:

If someone could shed some light on pelorian and/or lunar practices, it would be wonderful !

Just to add a note to everyone else's tune: I suspect that Shargash was once very important in classical Dara Happan cremation rites but has since been suppressed for one reason or another. The question that follows is who in their society handles the bodies nowadays. In "new pelorian" or lunar households the rites are probably as culture-dependent as 7M indicates. The disposition of the body for them is almost an afterthought when you're concerned with the disposition of the soul.

31 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Argan Argar, or at least the Only Old One, was about mutual tribute to increase mutual benefits. The customary tributes were defined in the Gray Age, and they oriented themselves along supply and demand. Supply in the Gray or Silver Age was extremely limited while demand was high.

Issaries was active in the Underworld in the Silver Age. His lesser aspects such as Harst not necessarily, and I think it is rather likely that worshippers of Harst were the default interface with the Kitori collectors (and dispensers). A mutual role in an Issaries market may (but need not) be derived from this.

Interesting. On the surface it is true, there is no active Market program among the Argan Argar at this time. We don't give them that spell. They come to us when they want to deal. As a result Issaries has no native competition throughout the Holy Country.

The underworld rites are a matter of inner temple doctrine and not the open marketplace. The Market spell is not fungible at this level but perhaps this is where Spell Trading comes into its own, changing the terms of the discussion and opening all obstacles to free exchange. (This in itself conceals a Secret of how "reciprocal initiation" works in general.)

Either way, since I'm here, I would suggest that much of the lay production in the "guilds" comes under the Issaries umbrella -- the urban Harsts source and manufacture their own packaging, associate Minlinsters and so on are always available to add value before resale, the tavern cult handles retail, etc.

17 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Sure - lay membership of Issaries (or Etyries, or whichever cult is running the market) is highly advisable, even as customer. The question is rather whether membership in one Trader cult doesn't automatically make you an associate initiate of the other, giving you a choice of ritual roles in the market.

I think this opens the door to the more pernicious old question of how you discover reciprocal initiation in play. If I come to a new jurisdiction where they don't recognize Goldentongue, I need to identify their local equivalent and convince their examiners to let me set up my shingle. This may involve a little lip service to their gods, certification, silver crosses palms, I swear not to handle state monopoly goods and respect local pricing, etc.

I basically have to prove my magic and prove to them that I respect theirs. Once that happens, I was always already in -- their temple is compatible enough with mine that I can recover spells and sacrifice there, I was always compatible enough with them that they'll take me (even begrudgingly). Until that happens, they don't know me and will tend to deal with me like any other interloper trying to horn in on their action.

It's probably similar for many of the other old "generic" cults, many of which perhaps not coincidentally have something like a professional or guild-like orientation. The local examiners are key.

Arlaten and his familiars back in Strangers in Prax are probably due a fresh coat of detail to conform to current views of post-RQ3 Rokari magic, but I always liked little Nailhead.

In that book, we learned that the Rokari prefer animals or enchanted creatures as familiars -- dryads and griffins are mentioned as unusually dangerous but alluring options -- and that both artificial objects and disembodied spirits are considered unorthodox familiar forms at best. So at least at that time there were socially / philosophically accepted norms within familiar practice. 

If you need an opposition, Spirit would be very interesting in some cultures. Plant becomes a different approach to mortality, individuality and time. Also you get a parallel to the Fertility/Death dyad that subsumes their magic in cultures where Power is more important than Form. 

Hi Styropa --

There's a fan letter from MARB in Wyrms Footnotes 1 ("like my own game, it looks most formidable at first reading") so they were definitely aware of each other. 

This is great, thanks. Do non-Earth women worship at the Paps? What spirits do the Impala women hold dear?