Verderer

Actually maybe I am making a fuss about nothing? I checked Legend rules for enchantments, and it talks about Sorcerous enchantments only, and how you use permanent magic points to create items etc. These magic points are tied up in enchantment, so you cant use them, until the item is destroyed etc, but you don't have use your own magic points for this. They can be tapped or gained from crystals too, and I imagine there are various creative ways of getting MP in Blood Magic as well?

Legend is curiously silent about divine enchantments (maybe mythic resonance, runes etc. were considered too 'RQ' for Legend?), but if we use the main idea from RQ2, then divine items are created by 'teh gawds' so you don't have to worry about that, just invent a good background story for the holy item? Clerics can bless items too, but these are temporary, for the most part I guess?

So maybe enchanted items are not too hard to explain in D&Desque world using RQ rules? Assuming of course, that RQ6 rules are anything like the above? Age of Treason had some interesting ideas about enchantments, namely that you can invest any charasteristic points in them, not just magic points or POW. But maybe this is going too far, as far as Classic Fantasy is concerned?

I currently have only RQ Essentials which doesn't appear to have anything on enchantments, so I don't know what the currect RQ stance is towards Enchantment mechanics?

I like the idea of enchanter having to invest some power permanently to create magic items (like the One Ring), it makes them more personal and interesting. But I was wondering how this would translate into D&D types of settings, where usually +1 swords seem common as mud? Of course, there are rituals around this requirement, you can tap some other poor fellow etc. but that seems kinda evil?

So Bob, in your system you don't have to invest permanent POW/Magic points or whatnot?

Good to hear CF II (?) is making good progress, I have one campaign that will depend on it... while we wait, can I ask a question in relation to it and RQ6 rules?

Namely, have RQ6 rules for making enchanted / magical items changed much from Mongoose RQ/Legend rules? Is the idea of investing characteristic points (POW or maybe other ones as in Age of Treason?) still in RQ6, and will it be so in CF as well? 

I too have the MRQII version of Deus Vult. As I understand it, the changes are relatively minor, but may still be significant. Miracles have been revamped, I think they're not based on divine magic anymore? And some minor character profession changes. I think I might get the GM guide just for support, but perhaps not right now. I don't even have the Legend rule set yet, even though I've been meaning to buy it.

As for Val du Loup, it should go pretty well with DV (but of course it's for BRP, so stats are different). Val du loup is pretty much a small sandbox type setting between the great realms of France and the Holy Roman Empire. There's a minor templar presence there, and naturally at least one Monastery (from memory) and a leper sanitarium, among other things. Those forests and hills are sure to be full of beasts, monsters, witches and cultists, and pagans still worshiping their old gods, sort of thing...and plenty of opportunity for diplomacy, plots, and other skullduggery.

As for other usable resources for DV, Ex Cathedra describes Troyes, and coupled with Life in a Medieval City by Joseph & Frances Gies, it might make a playable city setting? And there's the new DV sourcebook on Rouen too. As there are no major cities in the Val, only villages and a couple of larger towns, I though something like the above would supplement it nicely. That Rouen book I have to get, once a print version comes out early 2015. These cities arent too far from Val du Loupe either. If one had more info about Medieval Paris, Gent and Aachen, for example, you'd have a pretty nice NE setting for all kinds of medieval mayhem?

Ok thanks, that sounds alright then.

So have the plans for CF & Legend changed? Saw this on the RQ forum (underlining mine):

RuneQuest: Classic Fantasy

Rod Leary's excellent guide to traditional dungeon crawling, evoking the halcyon days of fantasy roleplaying's origins, comes to RuneQuest. Rod is adapting his Classic Fantasy rules (first published as an acclaimed BRP monograph) exclusively for RuneQuest 6th edition. This isn't a supplement - it's a complete game specifically tailored to recreating that original dungeoneering experience. Rod's hard at work on the manuscript, and we are anticipating a late 2014/early 2015 release.

I wouldn't fancy buying RQ just for CF, as I already got a bunch of Legend books. I know the systems are kin, but nevertheless bit a bit different. Or will the CF book come with the rules as well?

As mentioned in another thread (the Kult thread on the Legend forum), I will use traits myself in our RQII/Legend campaign. I have some experience with using traits before in Pendragon, and they have worked there pretty good. I am surprised to hear your players didn't take on traits Chaot, especially if you grant certain skill bonuses on basis of them. I mean, everybody wants bonuses right?

Maybe the issue was there weren't enough suitable traits for a given situation? Anyways, in Pendragon traits aren't used so much to grant bonuses, but to guide the players in social situations, how their PCs would act absed on their personalites. Of course, you do get bonuses (and fame), if certain traits are high enough, and so on - but maybe best not bring that into the discussion right now?

I am not sure how the opposed traits work in your example, though. I mean if you got honest/deceitful, how do you decide which one to use, or can the player just decide himself? And how do the opposed traits interact with each other, can you be honest one minute, and deceitful the next? Wouldn't the other (bigger value) be dominant in most cases? So would you first do the opposed trait test to see how the PC would proceed?

I like how the traits work in Pendragon, and intend to use it almost as is, except that I won't used a scale of 20, but 100 (to fit within the d100 system). I will also think about which traits to use, my campaign is historical medieval one, so quite like in Pendragon, but maybe less emphasis on the Malorian ideals? And I was toying with idea of adding sane/insane pair to cover sanity mechanism. Of course, RQII has the optional fear rules in Necromantic Arts, and the system itself has this skill called Persistence, so I need to combine these with the sanity trait. Sane/Insane would probably work just as scale of your mental health, and you'd use persistence checks mostly in insanity/fear inducing situations. I havent really worked it out yet.

Yes, I want to do something like what 1d8+8 suggested, but I don't want to give the game away too soon. In other words, I don't want the players to know what's going on. Of course, you could open the skill only when the PC's become aware of the trouble with reality, so to speak. Still, I want a bit more complex system for this. And I want to keep the gnostic element hidden, covert and hinted at, rather than overt.

From what I've read, Kult uses the idea of Mental Balance, where normal people have MB around 0. This is modified by certain advantages/disadvantages to positive or negative value, and the bigger the value is towards either direction, the more you begin to 'see' beyond the veil, and the more your surrounding begin to react towards you. Awakening starts properly at the extreme end of +/- 400 to 500. And you'd be taken for an insane/exceptional person around MB +/- 50?

Since I dont' want to introduce a system of (dis)advantages to Legend, I thought about using the optional rule of personality traits in BRP (and familiar from Pendragon). So you have pairs of opposite traits like Pious/Wordly or Greedy/Generous etc. You could actually take the seven deadly sins, and make the pairs from them, that would be a nice medieval touch, wouldn't it? And I thought I'd include Sane/Insane in these traits too.

My thinking is the last mentioned pair would work as measure of Mental Balance, you'd have a scale of 100% divided between the two, so the value would be something like Sane 45 / 55 Insane, and the closer you get to the either extreme, the closer you get toward awakening? And some of those other traits might work in the similar manner, extremes would work either to set you free, or to anchor you more firmly to the illusion. The nice thing about this system is that it's completely hidden (and might stay that way for a considerable length of the campaign), and on the other hand it gives a good tool for the players to work with their motivations etc. They wouldn't be used to 'force' the players to act in any particular manner, but their actions might well change these traits in various directions etc.

There would be other ways to awaken, or at least get glimpses of what lies behid the veil. The hidden wisdom of Magic is an obvious one, as are various drugs, and moments of 'insane insights' from temporary insanity, much in the way of CoC.

Lots of good advice and ideas, thanks everybody. I need to think of this more to formulate better what I want to do with this idea. By the way, I found some Kult materials on Scribd, and I am reading these to get a better idea of the setting. The game doesn't appear to be available on RPGnow, which is a pity.

I would like to use a form of divine magic for religious characters, and I like the idea that you form an allegiance/pact, and give up a measure of your POW to this purpose, and thus get access to miracles/prayers. And at the same time you get more attached to the material world by actually giving up a portion of your divine self. Most religions being just a part of the problem, as far as gnostic englightment is concerned. And then I'd have a form of independent sorcery in the gnostic tradition, and quite possibly other forms of magic tradition.

Another idea I've been toying with is the mechanism of opposed traits, much like In Pendragon and the optional rule in BRP. So you'd have pairs like Pious/Worldly, Energetic/lazy, etc. Some of these traits in their extreme nature would work to either anchor you more firmly to the material world, and some would perhaps work towards setting you free from it in the way towards the gnostic awakening. So you wouldn't have to resort to magic alone in order to be enlightened. I am not sure yet exactly what trait pairs I would use, but quite possibly I could include sane/insane in this group? So if you approach a very sane or insane state of mind, you begin to see glimpses behind the illusionary 'real world'?

So is reincarnation part of Kult world, or do the dead go to heaven/purgatory/hell?

Yes, as far as I understand, the premise of Kult is that the material world was created by the Demiurge, and it's really an evil illusion to entrap us humans, who are divine by nature. And the goal of gnostic practicers is to throw off the shackles of this material world to return back to divinity, be it pure energy or whatever. Apparently in the Kult world though, the players are not intended to be these 'awakened' beings, but they do get the occasional glimples of the reality behind the illusion (here my knowledge of the background gets hazy). I guess it's kinda metaphysical 'Matrix'?

What I am curious about is whether Kult has rules for the awakening (at least temporary if not permanent), ie. how do you reach this state and so on. What's the reality behind the illusion (horrible, apparently)? What is the magic system like? And so on. I also read that the Demiurge 'went away' (and demon named 'Astraroth' (?) is trying to assume his place) around the time humans started to reject religion as the sole truth (ie. 17th century or after). So what happened to the Demiurge? In the medieval campaign he'd still be around, I think?

So I am running a medieval Legend/MRQII campaign that uses Val du Loup, Deus Vult, Merry England, and Stupor Mundi sourcebooks for background. It revolves around the Crusades/Templar/Assassins, there is to be a lot of politicking & general skull-duggery (dare I say conspiracies) etc., and I thought I'd introduce a strong Gnostic element to the game. And so I finally get to my question:

I've read about Kult RPG, and how it's based on Gnostic ideas. It's set in modern era etc. but I thought I'd plunder some of the central themes & rules, and perhaps some of the magic system? Unfortunately the game seems to be out of print. So I was wondering if any Kult players here might tell me whether it's worth hunting for some of the books for this purpose, and which ones? I am mostly after ideas about magic and the mythos, for example how does the awakening work ruleswise. I am trying to find some sources in the Internets as well.

Ok, thanks Rust. Sounds good to me. I guess I will have to settle for PDF version of the book, and print pages as required then.

Interested in getting this book, although it seems no print versions are available anymore? What sort of info does the book offer on the gear? Prices, stats, game rules about usage?

BRP Classic Fantasy might be suitable for complementing the spell list? WFRP 1st ed. spells are quite 'old school' ie. resemble D&D a lot.

Perks and traits sound fun, tectuctitlay. How would the characters learn them (what are the points for?) I am assuming that in addition to them, you would still keep the regular BRP skill learning mechanism?

As to the GOAT thingy, it is just something I though might be fun to use for several reasons: 1) the players would have to think from the start, how their character would react in certain situations, ie. it would help them form an idea of their character's personality, and 2) the players couldn't be 100% sure what traits/perks/bonuses each GOAT score would give them. Only the GM would know the results and their effects. This would bring a certain degree of uncertainty: 3) the GOAT test would indicate what vault jobs the character is suited for (duh) and therefore provides the characters' starting profession. Again, a certain degree of uncertainty. Will you be the vault hairdresser, sanitation engineer, or perhaps just a lowly security guard?

Having read the preview, I am impressed. There's a whole load of background information some of which I never knew or have completely forgotten about. The Vault list and the Gazetteer are my favourites, great stuff going on there. I know you asked for comments on the community creation, but I haven't actually tried rolling any, sorry. But having read it, it seems versatile and well thought out. In summary, I would love to see more of this stuff!

EDIT: tectuctitlay, any thoughts on character creation process? I was thinking that it would cool to make it in story mode, at least partially. For example, let the characters first roll primary characteristics, and then let them take the GOAT test as adolescents. This would serve two purposes. Firstly, it could give the characters some bonuses in various skills and/or characteristics (like in the computer game), and secondly define their 'profession' in the vault community. This in turn would give them their professional skills (and then they would have free points etc. as normal). The questions of the GOAT would also make the players think how their characters would react in certain situations and so on, ie. help them roleplay the character maybe?

I was also thinking it would cool to make a table of random events etc. (like in MRQII for example) which would further individualise the character and give some background. These might be general vault events and/or professional events? Of course, this would work only on vault born characters. After these rolls, you could start the play in the vault with the characters performing their duties, and start the campaign from there. This would give the characters some time to get used to the system and develop their character further in a relative safe and limited environment. Then something would happen that forces them to leave the vault (much like in the computer games)

Ooh, exciting stuff! Thanks for uploading, I will be sure to read them over the Christmas holidays. I really want to GM BRP Fallout, and have been toying with the idea in my head for long while. So these really hit teh spot.

Heh, having read both Thou Shalt Not... and Deus Vult which both are new(ish) campaign material for the RQII system, I noticed a funny thing. Both feature St. Michael's Mount (and Mont St. Michel) in a pretty important role. A coincidence surely.... or is it really?

does Mongoose's RQII Arms and Equipment contain rules for blackpowder weapons?

All my BRP projects seem to be on the boil, but here are some I can GM soon, I hope:

Clockwork & Chivalry campaign using RQII

Val du Loup using RQII (I was going to use BRP originally, but decided RQ is better for medieval combat etc.)

Left for Dead campign using BRP (and maybe Chthulhu modern)

Fallout campaign using BRP

Freeport campaign using either BRP + Classic Fantasy OR RQII

C&C and Val du Loup are closest to being ready to play, I am not sure about the rest.

I recently bought RQII rulebook, and I am well chuffed about it. It seems to handle combat very elegantly, and solves some of problems that BRP has. Mean strike ranks & weapons sr mainly, but also some other minor things. I don't mean to say BRP is hopeless in this regard, but it does seem a bit vague at points. And the combat maneuvres of RQII seem pretty handy. They should make combat fast, colourful and lethal I expect?

You see, I haven't yet tried either system in practice. But I am inclined to replace BRP with RQII for the more melee oriented games (fantasy & pre-modern), and reserve BRP for scifi and modern games, where melee combat is not the main focus. Especially as many of the sourcebooks I have are already in RQ format (Stupor Mundi, RQ pirates, Merrie England and Clockwork & Chivalry). The systems are very similar on the surface, but different enought that you need to be pretty experienced GM to quickly convert material between systems, I think? So I don't think I will bother, especially as RQII seems better suited for these games anyways.

I haven't really thought about the differences between their magic systems, as that's not really that important to me. But I would guess magic rules would be the easiest parts to shift between these systems?

The connections rule is about creating a bond between the adventuring party - Adventurers get a +10 skill bonus during character creation for coming up with a connection with each other. So it might be as simple as a bonus to a fighting ability for two Adventurers from the same family who sparred together as children. Or it might be more subtle - perhaps a wealthy Lord, away from home, was found injured after a riding accident by a lowly Cottager. The Cottager Adventurer might be given a bonus on a healing related skill (having successfully nursed the Lord back to full health), or maybe the Cottager becomes a friend of the Lord and has an increase in their Influence to reflect this. The noble might have picked up some of the Cottagers skills while recovering too (perhaps learning how the Cottager farms her land or learning a little Survival from her). The idea is that, as well as getting a bit of a skill boost, Adventurers from different Professions, Factions and Social Classes have individual reasons to get on and adventure together. In our own games we encourage all of the party to have one connection to each other member of the group, which means even if their characters get annoyed with each other over politics and religion they don't tend to actually attempt to murder each other. Often.

Fighting Styles just means the skill applies to the style rather than the individual weapon.

I am not aware of a conversion kit. Obviously our present license is with MRQII so that is what we are writing to, but the basic mechanics are pretty much the same as BRP.

I really hope you enjoy the rulebook and adventure - we really did have a blast putting them together. Presently we are working on the fourth C&C release, No Man's Land (we have one frenetic schedule for the next year or so) - wonderfully grim stuff, I hope.

Peter Cakebread

Ok, thanks Peter. It seems this bears further study, so I ordered the RQII rulebook just now. I don't know either system so well that I can confidently go about converting stuff for BRP. I might even end up using the RQII, if I feel too lazy to convert the system. That would save time and bother, and allow me to concentrate on GMing proper. I have been discussing the same subject on Strike to Stun forum with Ken, by the way.

Are you planning to set upa forum of your own for C&C?

I bought the rulebook and the first adventure just a few days ago, and been skiming the pdfs now. What I would really appreciate is some pointers as to how to use the sourcebook with BRP rules, ie. what needs to be tweaked from the RQ rules. They're similar but not the same. Looking at the character creation, at least the connections bit and the bit about fighting styles seem unfamiliar from BRP point of view.

Some kind of RQII -> BRP conversion kit would be great...

Another vote for Sengoku. The background material (history, customs, society etc. etc.) alone is well worth the money. Wonderful stuff. And the system it uses, a modified Fuzion (I think), is pretty good. Maybe a little better for chanbara type of gaming than RQ, because it uses okuden and other special maneuvres for different fencing/martial arts schools, making each feel a bit different and special. So instead of generic martial arts, ninja fight differently from samurai, and samurai of different schools use different special techniques, and so on.