Jason D

He gave a listing of what critters were in the book farther up-thread... I'm not sure if they were the ones out of the monograph, which would have been most of the non-Gloranthan critters from RQ3... yes?

It was a dramatically reduced list of those, plus some classics from other sources.

I would venture to say that most people who play GURPS like crunchy rules for building vehicles, and most people who play HERO like the effects-based powers systems.

And while it seems strange to be quoting myself here, let me clarify that one can play the new BRP without getting into the whole point-based character generation thing at all if you don't want to. Point-based character creation is only a feature if you decide to use the super powers system or decide you want to use it.

In games like Hero, GURPS, etc., point-based is the default system and cannot be easily removed from character generation.

Are we using different definitions for 'multi-genre'? :confused:

My definition would be: The playing of different genres, one genre at a time.

I seem to be reading some posts as defining it as: The playing of different genres, all at the same time.

Is it just me?

Joseph Paul

I think there's a fundamental difference of opinion about what the term means and we're talking past one another.

"Multi-genre game" can mean either a setting that crosses genres, like Rifts or Torg, or it can be a system that can be used for multiple genres, like d20, FUDGE, HERO, GURPS, etc.

You could just as easily play a kitchen-sink BRP game with sword-and-sorcery archers and Cherokee survivalists fighting UFOs in ancient Mesoamerica as you could run four different campaigns - a sword-and-sorcery game, a post-apocalyptic game, a UFO-fighting game, and a Mesoamerican myth game.

For what it's worth, I have very little taste for multi-genre settings, but hope I made an excellent multi-genre set of rules.

How is BRP not generic at this time? After all it is BRP and not RQ, CoC, SB, SW, EQ, RW etc. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I am just confused how BRP could be seen as not competing with the others for share in the generic toolkit games market.

Let me (hopefully) be utterly clear:

My goal when working on this was never to make just another set of generic game rules sake for the sake of having just another generic system out there.

It was to take the much-beloved and easy-to-use BRP and make a version of it that wasn't tied to Stormbringer or Call of Cthulhu, and brought back some of the cool stuff that had appeared in games as diverse as Elfquest, Runequest, Ringworld, Superworld, and Worlds of Wonder. I have long been the type of GM who ends up adapting many settings to BRP, and I was getting frankly tired of having to drag my Stormbringer, RQ3, Call of Cthulhu, and other rulebooks out whenever I wanted to create a new setting. I was also a bit annoyed how the different strains of BRP never seemed to be exactly congruent - there was always something squidgy that wasn't the same between the different game lines, and I wanted something consistent.

If anything, think of this as the super-complete version of the old BRP 16-page booklet that appeared in Worlds of Wonder and the original Call of Cthulhu boxed set. The goal is that GMs can use it to make their own settings in the style of Super-World, Magic World, Futureworld, etc.

Sure, it will be viewed as competing in the same "generic RPG space" as GURPS and HERO, but those games have their audiences, and a strength of BRP is ease of use. I would venture to say that most people who play GURPS like crunchy rules for building vehicles, and most people who play HERO like the effects-based powers systems.

I think of it BRP competing against them in the same way that fruit juice competes against soda and liqueurs in the drinks category - they're essentially the same sort of thing (something sweet to drink), but fulfill very different tastes.

Am I the only one who thinks that the page count of the new DBRP is high? I dont hope too high. I mean is it a minimalistic rule system or not? What the hell do they describe on 350+p?

The reason the page count is so high is that it is chock-full of optional systems, content, GM advice, overviews of genres and settings, skills described, sanity, allegiance, five separate power systems, equipment ranging from thrown rocks to power armor, etc.

I wanted to make the core book the one-stop-shop for BRP gaming, and I think I got pretty damned close. Future supplements will be spared the page count spent on rules, and will be mostly content.

I've talked to Charlie and Dustin about doing a new and updated version of the 16-page BRP booklet with the new rules, and they're enthusiastic. With that, you could play the game, and hypothetically, you could run a simple campaign with non-powered characters and some basic equipment.

Now to find the time...

But the powers are included in the new BRP and I am presuming that the handicaps will be too. <looks to Jason for confirmation> So it will be relevant again.

The super powers section includes some basic handicaps and power modifiers, but they're not as complex or robust as those that a dedicated superhero game would include.

What I don't get is the assertion by Jason that neither he nor Chaosium wanted this to be a "toolkit" for referees. What else is it with all of those optional rules and power systems?:confused: If it does miss being a toolkit (what would have to be missing for that to happen?) why not go all the way and make it one?

I'm not sure where you got that impression. Can you point at a specific post or comment that says that?

And my apologies if I've sent out a conflicting message over the long and tortured development process on this game book.

It's very much a core set of rules whose main goal was to be consistent between previous BRP games and generic enough to serve as a platform for most (if not all) settings or genres a GM wants, with optional rules to add complexity if desired, or to reduce it in some cases.

What it isn't is revisionary.

Just because I'm curious, how is that handled if someone is using the rolled system (the different characteristic bases I mean)?

It changes the default dice rolls. I'm not going to give away too much (and don't have the manuscript handy), but it goes something like this:

Normal - every characteristic is 3d6 (except for maybe SIZ)

Heroic - every characteristic is 2d6+6

For epic and superhuman level campaigns, the GM is advised to provide a pool of character points and let players modify the heroic-level rolls as desired.

Case 2, I do believe that the Keepers Companion for CoC did indeed lay out parameters for what was professional level, hobbyist level and so forth for skills, and gave specific rules for what percentage a newly graduated doctor (for instance) would have in the various necessary skills and so forth. Also, there were some very nifty rules governing that sort of thing in Elric!/SB5, usually involving increased competence in what you could do with skills at 100%+. Seeing as how Jason just said the other day that the base system in the new book is a combination of those two rules sets, I think we are going to be gold for that aspect of the game. The skill explanations and parameters should be much better defined than in any previous version of BRP. At least that is what I am expecting now.

All of what you discuss here has been addressed in the new manuscript, either directly or indirectly.

is there a SIZ chart included? a simple one-pager with silhouettes of different SIZ scores would help understanding the numbers.

I'm pretty sure there's a SIZ chart, but nothing like a silhouette, as the value is a pretty nebulous one (which drove me a bit crazy).

1) You said all stats will get characteristic rolls. While most such rolls seem to be pretty intuitive, does this mean that the characteristic rolls will replace the resistance table for things like lifting or pushing?

Some examples:

- Idea (INTx5), Knowledge (EDUx5), and Luck (POWx5) rolls are already a known quantity

- doing a hundred pushups might require an Effort (STRx5) roll

- eating 50 hot dogs might be a Stamina (CONx5) roll

- catching a drink you've dropped might be an Agility (DEXx5) roll

- attracting the notice of a total stranger to come over and speak to you in a social situation might call for a Charisma (APPx5) roll

and so on...

2) Any there any settings in the works, and what are they?

Got just one big question for you at this time, as its been a bit of a sore point in adapting BRP based games to more general use in the past. How did you end up setting up character generation? Some simple build/roll attributes mode and a skill point distribution system? Or something else?

Character generation is normal BRP, but allows for point-based character generation. Skills are "get a dump of points and spend them as appropriate for profession and personal interest".

The rules for different character power levels (normal, heroic, epic, and superhuman) allow for different starting characteristic bases and more skill points.

The super powers system also includes skills like "super characteristic" and "super skill" which let you put character points into characteristics and skills.

Something tells me this will be a busy thread. Especially after I spread the word to draw more people to the forum!

Sanity?? Allegiance?? This is optional spot rules I hope?

CoC skill modifiers? Do you mean like RQ3?

The rumoured scenario pack, which might get cancelled because the sci-fi scenario was not handed in. Would be great if you could get som news on this.

First off, welcome to the boards!

1) Do you think you'll get sleep anytime soon with all of the questions from this board directed at you?

2) Do you really like the cover of the book? (I kinda do, actually. But I don't think it will play in the current marketplace. I actually like someone's suggestion of a black background with a grey Chaosium dragon logo filling the cover. Also, I acknowledge that this is a loaded question. Feel free to ignore.)

3) Was it worth it? As a playtester, I believe you've provided a great manuscript. From you're live journal, I know there's a lot of change happening in your life. What about the process would you like to have been different?

4) How's your daughter doing? Too bad you're on the other side of the continent. We could set up a play date with my Fiona and your little girl.

Maybe we'll have them meet up at a future Gen Con!

Charisma or Appearance? Or something else?

We kept APP, because it's the most current version of the characteristic, but the characteristic roll (characteristic x 5, used for simple tests) is the Charisma roll.

P.S. Congratulations on the new baby! At least that is what I assume it is. I have a 2-month-old baby myself.

Thanks! Now go get some sleep!

What were the goals you had in mind when revising and updating the rules?

Just to get them to work together?

Make them model certain types of play better?

Reality testing them?

Other?

BTW saw your post on RPGNet of the addition to the family. Congratulations! You will get to sleep again someday.

Perhaps Jason could convince the Chaosium staff to authorize some pre-publication sneak peeks?

It's out of my hands, but I suspect there are plans afoot to entice players and GMs ahead of time.

'up to the level of'...you really think GURPS is better. Wow.:eek:

I look at it just the reverse, but we have been over that already, I guess.

So whadya think, Jason, is BRP going to be 'brought up to the level of GURPS, err "other multi-genre games"' with the release of this book? I'd sort of like to know, myself.

Because if I thought that was the case, it would be a deal-breaker.

See above.

Having BRP become a substitute for GURPS, HERO, Action!, Tri-Stat dX, d20, etc. was ever a consideration or a goal. It's a different kind of game.

I was heartened during playtesting about the number of people who contacted me on the forum and outside about the ease they'd had changing existing systems over to BRP, and how much more fun they were having. I don't know if that would have happened if we'd gone down the "just another generic rules set" path.

Jason- Thank you for you kind consideration in addressing this forum. You are a brave, brave man. l

What market is BRP aimed at?

Do you expect to compete head-to-head with GURPS and HERO?

BRP seems to have always been weak on gearhead stuff like rules for making things, vehicles, new weapons, as well as breaking , burning, and breaching obstacles. Has this been addressed in the core book? If not are there plans to do so?

There are rules for making stuff using powers, but they're admittedly light. Again, it's generally not a big part of the BRP game, and we were very strongly opposed to trying to make it just another generic rules kit like HERO, GURPS, etc.

BRP seemed content to operate within a strictly game sense i.e. an abstracted SIZ instead of mass and volume in English or metric measures. Has the system been tied into the real world any better?

SIZ is still abstracted.

Was it planned for the powers to balance against one another so that one does not dominate?

It wasn't planned, and they don't really balance against one another. The expectation is that a GM will only be using one of them in a given campaign. Mutations don't balance against magic, and psychic powers are woefully underpowered compared to sorcery. Super powers are probably the most flexible and powerful of all of the five.

Will the optional rules bring BRP up to the level of other multi-genre games in terms of tactical options and finesse?

Perhaps. But again, BRP has never been about tactical options - it's a core game framework that can be made as complex or as simple as desired. In the past that's been by the designers at Chaosium, but now is in the hands of each GM.

What parts of it are you not content with as a designer?

Hmm...

I'd have liked to have made Sanity work in the same fashion as HP, power points (formerly magic points), fatigue, etc. But that's too big a change to do in non-CoC rulebook.

I think that given the choice now, I'd have pulled critical successes out of the book entirely and just kept special successes as the default.

I've never been a fan of even using fatigue or encumbrance rules. I tend towards making those things "GM discretion".

I'd have scaled the whole thing back somewhat and gotten it done much earlier. Overlapping three moves, two job searches, a marriage, and the birth of a baby during the course of one manuscript wasn't really ideal.

Just for clarification...I am a 1st ed. SB man as well...the base weapon stats are based on 1e Stormbringer, you say?

They're from Elric!, also known as Stormbringer (5th edition)

And I am not quite sure from the above, are there demon generation rules, per se?

There are two sample demons (a little implike one and a somewhat Balrogian one), and the spells just provide you to summon "a demon".

A complete demonic creation system was, again, outside the scope of the rules, which was a generic BRP framework. A magic book or a fantasy setting might have more detailed rules about demon summoning, creation, artifacts, etc.

Any changes to the way automatic weapons work in COC?

Will there be rules for space ship combat?

Not detailed. The classic "chase" system from CoC is there, genericized for ships and other vehicles, but a full-on vehicular combat system is outside the purview of what I and the Chaosium guys felt the BRP core rules should encompass.

For those of us that have the original box sets of products like super world-How compatable will the new super power rules be with the old?

How did you solve the close relationship of the strombringer spell system to the moorcock universe if it is ought to be rather generic?

Are the sorcery rules from Stormbringer complete? (spells system and demon/elemental summoning)

Whats with rune magic of the bronze grimoire? Did you include it?

Did you rename spells?

which base chances of normal skills and weapon skills did you choose? More along the line of CoC or any other edition of BRP? Or completely new?

Are any modules/adventures included in the book (it's a big book, 384 pages!). If so, which genres?

Any rules for enchantment and alchemy? For modifying spells on the fly?

Effects for weapons by type...hmmm, would that be the slash/crush/impale of RQ or something more expansive?

Is it true that the base rules system is similar to Elric!/Stormbringer5?

Are you sure you want to answer all the questions we are probably going to come up with over the next ten weeks or so?

How about interior art? Have you seen any? If so, is it all new or is some borrowed from other books?

I believe that the interior art is a mix of new and old. I've seen the online sketchbook of one artist (http://skook.blogspot.com/), but haven't seen the completed works.

What type of creatures are covered in the book? How many are usable as playable races?

Here's a list of the creatures in the manuscript I submitted:

• Natural Creatures: Alligator (or Crocodile), Bear, Brontosaur, Dog, Gorilla, Hawk, Horse, Insect Swarm, Lion, Rat Pack, Shark, Snake (Constrictor, Venomous), Squid (Giant), Tiger, Tyrannosaurus Rex, Wolf
  
• Fantasy Creatures: Centaur, Dragon, Dwarf, Elf, Ghost, Ghoul, Giant, Griffin, Halfling, Mummy, Minotaur, Orc, Skeleton, Troll, Unicorn, Vampire, Werewolf, Zombie
  
• Supernatural Creatures: Angel, Demon (Greater, Lesser), Elementals (Air, Earth, Fire, Water)
  
• Science Fiction Creatures: Alien (Grey, Xenomorph), Blob, Robot (Giant, Killer, Utility)
  

There's no guarantee all of them will make it into the final book (some may get cut for space), but that's what went into the layout process.

As for usability as PCs, there are guidelines at the beginning of the chapter for adapting any race for use as a PC race, but nothing so sophisticated as the RQIII system. It didn't make much sense for a generic core book to go into details about what races can be PCs. If you want to make a giant robot PC and the GM is cool with it, go to town.

So there is new stuff in there? Not just a copy paste from the other rulebooks?

Do you know if any settings books are planned?

I think a few have been announced, some on this very website.

Any planned adventure modules?