simonh

I've gone back and forth on this, but let me play devil's advocate.

What useful work would such a generic introductory rule book do that isn't already done by existing products?

We already have a free introductory rulebook for CRQ, so there's no point in doing another one just for the sake of being generic. Doing a generic one based on CoC makes no sense because all the new game concepts in development are likely to be based more on CRQ than they are CoC. Doing a generic one with both CRQ and CoC mechanics in it would be needlessly confusing and therefore wouldn't serve the purpose of an introductory book.

So what's left? Maybe an introductory book for CoC itself, in the mould of the RQ Quickstart. Is such a thing really needed though? CoC has managed for decades without it. Any such project should be measured on it's own merits, not for some sense of arbitrary symmetry in the product line. CRQ is a new upcoming product, so the Quickstart made sense from a marketing perspective and as a chance to market test some of the new mechanics but there's no such motivation for a CoC Quickstart.

So I'm not sure I really see the point.

Simon Hibbs

On 27/08/2017 at 2:51 AM, davecake said:

 Also, both are described (in Gods of Glorantha) as being very limited in their ability to bind spirits to their fetch - KL shamans can bind only Darkness spirits, and Aldrya shamans only plant spirits 

I don't think that's much of a limitation in practice though as there can be a huge variety of both darkness and plant spirits. In RQ3 terms there were darkness and plant spirits of all the 'generic' spirit types such as Intelect Spirits, Power Spirits, etc. The kinds of places Troll and Aldryami shamans hang out would have plenty of spirits they could work with. In principle a Human Shaman might have more options, but I think in practice cultural factors such as the spirit societies available would be just as limiting.

Simon Hibbs

One advantage of the London Olympics logo is that, once you heard about the salacious interpretation, you got to see London plastered with graphic porn for about a year.

On 08/08/2017 at 7:12 AM, g33k said:

It is in many ways a shame that Greg adopted that outlook in the first place, as it plays strongly to the "just like D&D" trope.

 

He had particular reasons for doing so though. It would have been a terrible shame if he'd compromised his particular artistic vision just to avoid it having anything in common with D&D or Tolkien.

Simon Hibbs

6 minutes ago, styopa said:

How about this one?  Pretty sure nobody used this font in a while:

 

Boot Hill?

Simon Hibbs

The one I remember the best is the Games Workshop RQII title, not present, since that was my introduction to the game.

The original Louse Perrin title is gorgeous of course, but to my surprise the RQ3 title holds up very well. Those two strips of runes balance the composition really nicely.

I still like the QuickStart title though. It pushes all the right buttons for me. It's clean and elegant and the Norse rune styling is really well done. Apart from the obvious I love the 'q', even without the little truth rune it's a very well executed callout to the Odal rune. I would have expected the T to be slightly pointed like the Tiwaz Rune, but think the artist made the right choice in the end. Doing that would probably spoil the outline of the composition.

I'd like to see how well that logo works in bronze.

Simon Hibbs

I really love the QuickStart title. Clean, highly legible with a lovely Norse Rune vibe going, and a couple of actual Gloranthan runes thrown in for extra flavour.

I was really hoping, after all the Call of Cthulhu title text is also clean and classy.

Simon Hibbs

Very pretty! 13AiG is cracking stuff. Even if you have no interest in the game itself, I highly recommend at least borrowing a copy and taking a look. It's a great example of taking all sorts of obscure Gloranthan weirdness that's  just been flavour in other games and making it do useful work in the game mechanics.

One of my favourite examples is Hombobabom granting Troll warriors multiple attacks, treating enemies as drum kit. The Hombobabom Thump! If both attacks succeed, an ally gets a free attack too, known as the 'high hat'. Ba-Dum-Tish!

Simon Hibbs

3 hours ago, g33k said:

I see no reason a "BGBv2" couldn't include the innovations of CoC7e and RQG (and any other bits and bobs).

I suppose so. I'm not sure how much of a market there might be for a BGBv2 though. How many current BGB owners would be interested in a new version with a dozen extra pages to cover the RQG and CoC7 variant rules? The BGB includes rules and options from dozens of earlier BRP games, all of them now out of print so it's a great way of getting access to that material. The incremental value of adding in two more variants which will be in print is pretty low IMHO, unless it's a really thorough rewrite and reconceptualization of what a genetic BRP core book could be. But then it wouldn't really be BGBv2. It would be something else.

Simon Hibbs

Are there still any plans to publish a new BRP core rule book along the lines of the RQ Quickstart?

I was all in favour of that for awhile, rebooting BRP based on a simplified version of the new RQ rules, but on reflection I just think it's unnecessary. In fact it could be quite counterproductive. Such a book couldn't be consistent with both RQ Glorantha and Call of Cthulhu 7. Yet it's quite conceivable that Chaosium might want to publish some new games based on RQG and others based on CoC7, depending on the genre. At least I wouldn't  want to exclude the possibility.

BRP has always been a very broad church, including many variations and alternatives and always allowing for innovation in new games. The BGB may be a bit out of date now, lacking the new systems from CoC7 and the upcoming RQG, but it still serves its purpose as a summary and digest of game systems to that point. It was never meant to be the final word on BRP mechanics. Meanwhile the RQ Quickstart can fill the place of an RQ based BRP core rules book quite nicely, without implicitly saying anything proscriptive.

Simon Hibbs

Stating that Glorantha is Bronze Age is important to help people visualise the setting. If you don't state that up front, people will automatically visualize and imagine it with people wearing iron armour and weapons. It also clues people in to expect more ancient world elements than they are used to. So the details of exactly how accurate and precise it is as a term is incidental to me, its main value is setting a very distinct starting point of reference for newcomers to the setting.

When you read about battles in Roman times it's all about generals, strategy, manoeuvre, supply lines and numbers. That's history for you. But when we read the older sources such as a Homer or the Bible, it's all about kings and heroes charging into battle. Achilles versus Hector, David versus Goliath, Pharaoh smiling his enemies. It's up close and personal, just like Glorantha.

Simon Hibbs

One thing to bear in mind is that a really stormingly good campaign pack could open up pretty much anywhere to popularity and fame. For example nobody is suggesting Balazar, it's an unremarkable backwater in the grand scheme of things Gloranthan, yet Griffin Mountain is one of the best loved campaign packs. To be truly great a supplement has to be done for its own sake, not just because now it's time to do a supplement on X.

I'll support the vote for the Lunar Provinces though, Holly, Aggar, Imther, etc. They're close enough to Dragon Pass to be relevant to campaigns there, are also close to Dorastor and Balazar, have familiar elements such as Orlanthi culture and should still provide a solid grounding on life in the Empire. If you look at areas detailed already in campaign packs, that area is a gaping hole in the middle yet it looks like it should be packed with things to do.

Simon Hibbs

7 hours ago, Pentallion said:

yes, you have, every single time someone lists the years, they were inclusive.  You just didn't realize it till now. If the Red Queen's reign was from 1487 to 1495 she ruled for 9 years.  She ruled in 1487, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94 and 95.  Count em, 9.  If you try to say she only ruled 8 of those years she'll have to cut your head off.

That's not a great example because temporary her reign could have been for significantly less than 96 months. But still all 9 of those calendar years were years of her reign.

But I think if something says it covers or details the years from X to Y that's unambiguous that X and Y are both included. A book with chapters on the events of each year of the Great War would have chapters on both 1914 and 1918, in the same way that a book with chapters on the years of the monarchs reign would be assumed to be inclusive all else being equal.

Simon Hibbs

On 27/07/2017 at 11:44 PM, kaydet said:

I've never heard or seen anyone use dates as inclusive. I would always say that 2006-2012 was six years, not seven.

Which year, first or last, would you not include in the range, and why that one instead of the other one?

Simon Hibbs

I'm still just getting started going through this, there's so much in there. I skimmed over Coming Storm fairly quickly, you can get a really good overview of that book without having to read everything and then dig in for details as needed. It's 'static' setting and background material that you can just absorb.

But with Eleven Lights everything is highly dynamic. All the parts are moving, it's about events and choices and action. There are only a few dozen more pages than in Coming Storm, but it feels like there's so much more there to take in. I love the structure and format. It's a great way to present a campaign like this and very much reminds me of the Great Pendragon Campaign without being just that but in Sartar. There's clearly a 'default' way events are assumed to go, but plenty of notes on different possible ways the PCs might approach problems and respond to events. It strikes a good balance between traditional adventure scenarios and supporting a degree of sandbox play.

Great stuff. I'm looking forward to working my way through the rest of it.

Simon Hibbs

45 minutes ago, Dogboy said:

No, you just don't want to remember the real art of Elder Secrets

Original, please. Long live revisionism!

Simon Hibbs

Great reference from Martin, it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if Hesiod was one of the influences on the Gloranthan Ages.

I'm with Ian as a rule, Ancient World is evocative, descriptive and less prone to nitpicking. After all, even up to the Spanish discovery of the Americas half of the populated continents of the world - both of the Americas and Australia, were entirely Stone Age. Can we really expect Glorantha to be any less diverse technologically? Especially with the occasional bit of Mostali tech and magic around.

BTW I was there in Leicester when Greg pointed out of the window. As best I remember he was asked something like wat Glorantha looked like in the 4th age and he pointed out the window and he said something along the lines of 'it looks like that'.

Some people took that to mean that our world is the 4th or later age of Glorantha, but I'm certain that is not true. The ages of Glorantha are not so much physical changes in the world as changes in the nature of consciousness. I think what he may have meant was that 4th age Gloranthans have a more modern world view and so they look at their world more in the way that we do, but that's mainly supposition on my part.

Simon Hibbs

18 hours ago, styopa said:

Huh?

Ernalda and Babeester Gor weren't "proper women's cults"...in what True Scotsman sense were you referring?

 

Babeester Gor was ok, but Ernalda and many of the other women's cults just weren't interesting. The cult itself is fine, but the Magic was pretty rubbish to be honest and didn't really support the social role of the cult. I think this is just what happens when you build out an RPG game system from the combat system outwards. But BRP and game mechanics 'technology' has advanced a lot in last few decades. Also hopefully new game mechanics like Rune and Passion bonuses, community rules, etc will provide the means to make these cults rock.

Simon Hibbs

20 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

Overall, I don't see much that motivates me to get the rule set itself.  I'm perfectly fine with running my modified RQ2 game, and its similarity to RQG makes conversion nearly trivial.  However, you've still got me for the background books and scenarios.  I've almost always been impressed with the level of quality and information of Chaosium products.

If you consider the value proposition to be mainly about the combat system, then you're probably right and the new RQ doesn't change that enough to move the needle for you. That's pretty much by design. The RQ2 combat system isn't broken so other than some tweaks and updates here and there it doesn't try to resolve-engineer it all that much.

i think the real value in the new RQ will be more about expanding out the system to cover so many things RQ2 didn't even try to handle, or did so in a very perfunctory and unsatisfactory way. The sorts of things I'm looking forward to seeing given solid systemic support are: Shamanism, spirits and the spirit world. Ritual magic and enchantments. Sorcery. Lunar magic. Proper Earth magic and women's cults.

The value IMHO will be in all the things RQ2 didn't really come close to providing, or provided only in vestigial form, not in just refreshing the stuff you already have. But the QuickStart isn't really going to showcase any of that.

Simon Hibbs

I think the takeaway is that if you're a professional warrior that expects to be attacked hundreds of times, go with armour and shield. Dodge is for skirmishers and characters with exotic attack strategies or who don't expect to be in direct melee as often. It's just not as reliably effective as a sharpened metal bar or a big slab of metal reinforced wood. I'd don't have a problem with that.

On 02/07/2017 at 3:04 PM, styopa said:

Sort of a silly criticism.  

Isn't that pretty much the cost/benefit risk of raiding ANYWAY?

I think doing it so close to your own rites makes it a double-or-nothing bet. It leaves little or no time to make alternate arrangements or call in favours from allies or other reserves if there is a problem thus putting the rites in increased jeopardy. I suppose it depends what precautions are taken. I'm just saying it introduces a risk that needs to be mitigated.

Simon Hibbs

On 29/06/2017 at 0:50 AM, styopa said:

The logic of the system would encourage raiding enemies on the day before or early during one's high holy day, so you could blow ALL your RP and get them restored almost immediately.

So you're going to take all your strongest initiates and cult leaders on a high risk mission into enemy territory, blowing all their magic and risking life, health and sanity immediately before they are all needed to perform the cults most essential and sacred rites.

Because assuming the raid isn't a disaster thus messing up your ability to do the rites properly at all, and also that subsequently the holy rites aren't interrupted by the same or other enemies while your magic and possibly also manpower is sorely depleted, after the rites are concluded they will get all their expended magic back.

What could possibly go wrong!

Simon Hibbs

Sweet is Revenge

Check out the link. It's an RQ scenario by Dave Morris and Oliver Johnson, which they originally wrote as part of the Questworld pack they developed for Games Workshop. Of course that never saw the light of day, although some of it ended up being repurposed as Dragon Warriors material. Anyway Dave just published this on his blog, complete with RQ 2 stats. Well worth checking out.

My brother Phil picked up a copy in London yesterday and then popped round so I got a look. Very nice. It would be handy to have one or two of these lying around during a proper game for reference, even when you have the rulebook, as it includes a fair chunk of the core rules. I didn't have time to read the scenario though, which I take as a plus as maybe I'll get a chance to play it some time.

Simon Hibbs

I think the point of the restriction is to avoid rejoining that which has been severed - the link between the body and the soul. After all, Humakt is The Severer.

Simon Hibbs