d(sqrt(-1))

1 hour ago, g33k said:

AIUI, Greenwood invented the Realms as his fantasy-fiction universe, intentionally making it a kitchen-sink pastiche so he could plausibly set anything from stone-age tribes to late-renaissance clockwork into the setting as the need and mood struck him to write.

Like Tekumel and Glorantha, the Realms began before RPG's, before even a glimmer of the notion had struck Arneson, Gygax & Co.  Tekumel was Barker's exercise in linguistics, beginning in the 1940's; Glorantha was Stafford's 1960's-origin exploration of myth&culture; the Realms was created (also in the '60s) to write fantasy short-stories & novels.

It wasn't until the mid/late 1970s that any of these (already well-developed) worlds met the (still very-young) field of RPG's, but the different mediums of world-building synnergized incredibly well!

Yes, Middle-Earth, Glorantha, Tekumel and Forgotten Realms were the only large scale worlds from before RPGs I could think of that made the transition.

1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

Have you seen Paul Baker's The Houses of Teshnos? It's a lovely piece of work, with two five-star reviews so far.

I have not - I shall away immediately to inspect it. Thanks.

I think that partly the problem with large scale detailed backgrounds, Middle-Earth, Glorantha, Tekumel, probably Forgotten Realms too (?), is that the very plausibility that makes them seem so real is also a problem in that it can be a real Mirror of Illusion(*). When I first started with RQ I felt I couldn't really run Glorantha (I had RQ1/2 and Cults of Prax) because it seemed that there was more going on that I didn't know the details of. After some years I realised that all those references and details did not necessarily exist in a concrete form. Now I almost feel like I can't run Glorantha because there's too much information (yes I know I can ignore it if I want). Well that and I'd like more info on Teshnos. 

The good thing with Glorantha is that Greg went to a lot of effort to make sure that other people had a solid grasp of its underlying principles and truths - Jeff, Sandy and others. With (e.g.) Tekumel, there are secrets of that setting that Prof Barker probably never told anyone (or they are somewhere in his massive archive of notes, written in Tsolyani/Urdu which probably only a few people could even begin to read even if the Tekumel Foundation would release them). I think Barker was much more completist in that he actually did have notes on all sorts of details and history, all written over a ~60+ year period, and we know that he had hundreds of NPCs that he would track and who had effects on the world as he ran it.

In the end you have to consult your pineal gland and make stuff up.

(*) Gratuitous Hawkwind reference.

3 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I vaguely remember D&D Tekeumel being a thing and for some reason I seem to recall there was a dalliance twixt the wunderkinds of St. Albert, Alberta... Messrs. Simbalist and Backhaus of C&S fame and M.A.R Barker. Don’t recall if they ever put out a Tekumel project. Never did get to try it though.

Apparently Kevin Crawford does have a Tekumel version but he can't get permission from the Tekumel Foundation to publish it, so it has languished for a while. I'd really like to see it though, especially if he could do one of his extremely good Kickstarters for it with good artwork. There is a draft at https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4qCWY8UnLrcUG9WX1ZfcTJweTA/view

There's also The Petal Hack (OSR) by Brett Slocum https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/187939/The-Petal-Hack which is free.

Don't know about the C&S connection - you could ask Chirene at https://chirinebakal.proboards.com/ as he played with Prof Barker for many years and has a LOT of knowledge.

6 hours ago, Questbird said:

Ha ha

even old threads can rise!

How did your Tekumel BRP gaming go?

The PCs managed to rent a large run down multi storey place in the Foreigners Quarter for a medium rent on the understanding that they had to evict the current inhabitants who were not paying their rent. These proved to be a Salarvyani street gang who put up a spirited resistance. Once they had moved in they discovered that the place next door was occupied by Ayhogga who were prone to having large dance parties all night, and also had no compunction about doing their "business" anywhere it suited them, which caused horrible smells to waft around the place. The PCs decided not to upset the Ayhogga, who were on the whole a lively, friendly-ish bunch.

The PCs moved in the rest of their clan, and the matriarchs immediately set about berating them for not getting a suitable place, not sorting out the Ayhogga, being lazy, not trying to better themselves, etc,etc in the best manner of matriarchs. Also the previous occupants' grandfather shaman had been overlooked (he lived underneath the place with a connection to the tsuru'um) so they spent some time exploring trying to find him as he would occasionally send occupants of the tsuru'um up to plague them.

The Yeleth lover turned out to be a great boon as she was very strong and could hypnotise people, but because of her paper white skin they had to be very careful about going anywhere outside, hence the usefulness of the underworld connections. She was intensely loyal to the PC who had donated 3 POW to reawaken her, and the other PCs had to be a bit careful about upsetting her "friend". They did find a useful scroll in the underworld which they took to the temple of Sarku. The temple offered them money if they found any more and brought it to them. It was only after the evaluation that they realised the person they had seen in the temple wasn't actually breathing, although they had seemed very nice and understanding.

We also ran a cross over game using Jeff Dee's Bethorm rules (which are also pretty good) with native Tsolyani rather than outsiders. One PC put everything into being wealthy, with higher status. He was carried everywhere in his palanquin with his teenage paramour and copious amounts of drugs. Because he was higher status he was often the person others wanted to/would only speak to, so there was a lot of grumbling (in a typical Tsolyani way) from the other PCs (not the players, they were all for it) when he "arranged" for them to do things for other people and got the rewards which he would magnanimously hand out afterwards. The same player also had a Livyanu PC who was quite secretive (as normal for Livyanu) and was suspected to be a member of a Shadow Gods temple unit, but no definite proof was ever found...

4 hours ago, svensson said:

OK, gonna have to run that down!

I love Tekumel as a setting [even if it has an even steeper learning curve than RQ] and having it converted to RQ /BRP would be great.

You can still get Sandy's version from https://www.tekumel.com/gaming_unofficialrules.html

On 12/5/2011 at 4:18 AM, Questbird said:

 

I've seen it too. Someone called Mark from Oxford (username 'd(sqrt(-1))') had been in contact with Sandy Petersen in 2009 about revising the BRP Tekumel rules:

http://www.gamingtavern.eu/tav/viewtopic.php?p=20314 and http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?455666-Tekumel-Calling-out/page9

Nothing much seems to have come of it, though there was this tantalising fragment from the author in July 2010:

Ok, in 3 sessions we've gone from players who knew nothing, to now being quite ok with clan-structures, the importance of etiquette and how you present things to people, Chlen-hide weapons and armour, low levels of metal and no stars in the sky. They have met and interacted with Shen, Pe Choi, Ayhogga, Mrur, Vorodla, Ru'un and Hra - re the last two particularly they were very lucky both times and managed to escape with no casualties.

 

They've also had contact with Temples of Thumis, Ksarul, Hrihayal, Sarku and probably soon Belkhanu. They've picked up an Eye (but don't yet know what it does as it is labelled in Ancient Llyani), a Golden Disc of Advancing to Glory (ditto), and the shaman has "acquired" an android (Yeleth) lover (although they don't know that, and think she might be undead instead) - she was found inert in one of a pair of crystal caskets and they woke her up (at a cost in permanent POW). They've also seen a Hrihayal party of priestesses and Temple guards depart on a mission in a tubeway car, have accidentally run into a patch of Food of the Ssu, and spent some time in tunnels worried about what might be round the next corner.

 

They currently have plans to rent a clanhouse in the Foreigner's Quarter, develop some trade so they can get the rest of their tribe over, and want to form their own clan with a view to getting it eventually accepted by the Empire.

 

So far no-one has said it's too complicated, too weird or there's too much info...

 

I've just come across this post some 10 years later(!). Many thanks as the original was lost when the gamingtavern lost its .eu domain.

We've not had much time on Tekumel lately as we've been playing other stuff. I do still have a large InDesign document with Sandy's text in it and some stuff I added from (mostly) Gardasiyal.

2 hours ago, ffilz said:

Playing in Tekumel is a lot different than GMing. Beyond my lack of much background in the inspirational cultures, what I found broke down my ability to relate was the almost total lack of any Earth flora and fauna. And no handy guide "bleebleblorps are like deer". So now not only do I have to do cultures I don't know, I also have to invent an ecology.

Well, you could say the same of D&D - lots of people know what Mind Flayers, Beholders, Perytons, Xorns, Kobolds are, and they are nothing like terrestrial creatures. Similarly for Hra, Jagji, Vringalu, Mrur, Serudla etc in Tekumel - once you know them you know them.  Hard thing no do, Do thing no hard.

EDIT: I just came across a long lost post I made on the gamingtavern.eu (before it lost its .eu domain) referred to in this post from 10 years ago (!): 

16 hours ago, ffilz said:

I'm confident that it is NOT in the same realm as Tekumel though it may seem so. It IS an approachable setting, and there is a variety of offerings that guide you on your path to whatever level of immersion you desire.

I'd actually argue that Tekumel is not really that difficult - I've run it for people who know nothing about it before and they can pick it up quickly. It does need a GM who knows a bit about it and is prepared to say things like "Well you CAN do that if you want but your clan might object". I think it's a lot more accessible now than it was to people in the 1970s purely because there is more awareness of other cultures. 

The difficulty I have with Glorantha sometimes is that it's a bit of a big wobbly jelly where nothing is definite. That's a strength and a weakness.

19 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Pretty straightforward:  Grandfather and Grandmother Mortal heading off into the night/tunnel of love, "because the night belongs to Love". 

Man Rune, go forth and multiply!

Ok - I must admit I thought there was more to it than that...(although I didn't know who the couple were)

2 hours ago, simonh said:

Perish the thought that a world containing Duckburg Point, Hungry Jack, Prax, Grizzly Peak, Nochet and Gonn Orta should have punny, jokey and real-world referencing names.

I know Duck Point and Nochet but I didn't know the others were puns - what are they?

36 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

They all live in the Vatican. 

I assume you misspelt pope culture....

Maybe they Doged a bullet there...

6 hours ago, g33k said:

If you need to interweave pop-culture references in order to capture the "spirit" of Glamour (and it's clear the authors thought that is the way to do it), then you're stuck with mentions of the Spice Girls, the Eurythmics, Late-Stage-Elvis, Ziggy Stardust, and etc etc etc.

Because only those Real-World xref's will evoke the suite of ideas and images and emotions; the glamour.  They couldn't use more "authentic" / historically-accurate xref's in their place, because... well, name me a single pop-culture icon of late-Imperial Rome, or Persia?  Go ahead, I'll wait...

(if you got "Spartacus" ... well, he's a century too early, but OK; if you got any others -- especially any non-fighting types! -- then I'm VERY impressed) 
Because that would have (a) lost most of the readership; & (b) even for the few who recognized those names, wouldn't have carried the emotional/etc weight... the glamour.

By the same token, they needed older & over-the-top pop-culture -- fading OTT pop-culture at that -- to capture that this is, in fact, the decadent and fading era for the Lunars (canonically (if only there were a canon!) doomed to fail and fall within decades).  RGtG has no Lil Nas X, no Halsey, no Winnie Harlow or Ashley Graham.  We have nods to the past, not the future; nor even the present.
 

While I understand where you're coming from, I think RGtG stands very well as what it is.

The problem I find is that it kills any sense of verisimilitude or suspension of disbelief. I looked at the Drivethru info for Rough Guide to Glamour when it first came out, and TBH I had no idea who the people on the front cover were except Elvis, and my first thought was "What's Elvis got to do with it?". But then I don't do pop culture. Now that may not reflect the content (although I suspect it does from the other references). I'm sure it's a good book, it's just that I won't get any of the references its making. I'd prefer things to be explicitly spelt out TBH.

6 hours ago, g33k said:

Because only those Real-World xref's will evoke the suite of ideas and images and emotions; the glamour.  They couldn't use more "authentic" / historically-accurate xref's in their place, because... well, name me a single pop-culture icon of late-Imperial Rome, or Persia?  Go ahead, I'll wait...

Probably a charioteer or their horse/s - Scorpus is the only one that comes to mind for me, but the Romans were fanatical about their racing and gambling.

Anyone want to explain it then? I know the song slightly and read the lyrics - what's the context here?

On 7/26/2020 at 2:21 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

Reading the topic  about slow spell I have now this question in mind 

as glorantha is not spheric, the irl gravity law cannot apply 

so how can we explain people fall ? What force and or myth defines that if you are in middle air you should quickly learn Fly spell if you want to survive ?

 

Nothing to do with Gloranthan explanations but I can't help pointing out that IRL gravity has nothing much to do with spheres - it's the mass that causes the gravity. So a large cube of stuff will still exert a force. If you were using IRL gravity to explain it it might be a bit weird at the edges though...

On 3/13/2021 at 10:31 PM, Akhôrahil said:

Role-players use Billy. Board-gamers use Kallax.

No-one told me that! Does that mean I have to get rid of 17+ Billies?

Thanks for the summary. I ended up with a Zoom call that ran on until gone 8 PM GMT, then was interrupted by something else so I managed to miss most of it...upcoming stuff sounds good.

7 hours ago, mkv67 said:

Now a second one is on the cards is there a recording of the first one for those of us who missed it?

Is there? I've seen no mention of it.

Any chance of an Errata/Update document? I see there was a lot of conversation on reddit at one point, some of which seems to have disappeared, but something that collected together changes/suggestions etc would be quite helpful!

C'est vrai! Je parle un peu le Francaise, mais je connais espagnol plus que francias

Shame - the English translation of the French RPG for Vance's Planet of Adventure was cancelled due to not enough interest.

Any chance of an English version?

A few things I noticed on a read through. Not sure if there is a specific forum for questions other than here?

• Some general typos but not major ones e.g. "Encumbrance" vs "Encumberance"
• p52 : Weapons "Light melee and ranged weapons", I assume this is Light melee and light ranged weapons"?
• p52 : Light weapons gain +1 Clash point due to speed - this ought to be mentioned elsewhere either under Fighting Styles (p66) or Clash points (p69) as it's easy to miss here.
• p53 : Armour says "Soft armours provide less Protection but are less fatiguing to wear (p 74). p74 doesn't seem to say anything about this, I think it should be p 55 Encumbrance
• p57 : Is there a minimum chance of success? Modifiers could easily knock it down to 0%
• p63 : Initiative example, 18 rolled for Oritakan and 15 for the Norakan. On p 244/255 Norakan and Oritakan have Init 15, so the minimum would be 16 for Norakan.
• p65 : Attack. The section on Clash spending sounds like it applies to melee only but doesn't actually say so. So if someone shoots at me can I make it a Clash and shoot back, highest successful roll hits? What if I dodge, obviously I can't damage them then (p 70 sort of implies this)
• p66 : Criticals/Fumbles Jackal can spend Clash points for Power Attack after a critical for +6 damage (see p 66). This should be see p 70. Also maybe explain it is +6 because damage is maximised on a critical?
• p70 : Clash Point costs - Clash a charging enemy. Highest success deals the damage it would seem, but it doesn't stop the movement etc (there's no definition of charge?)
• p79 : Rite Defence/Save Effect - do I have to spend clash to resist a rite or is it just a normal opposed roll? p70 doesn't mention it as something to spend Clash on.
• p83 : Crack of Flame. Enemies suffer penalty to non-defence skills equal to twice Devotion. Is that maximum Devotion or current Devotion?
• p107 : Advanced Skill Talents (AST). Is it at 100% or 120% you get your first AST? Text here makes it seem like 120%, but p 117 under Rite and Fate talents says 100%. p208 Nahunum have Combat 120% and it says they get a talent, which implies at 120%
• p109 : Healing: Triage and Respite say limited to once per day. Is that 1/day total or 1/day/subject?
• p109 : Healing Arcana specialist says use acalana resin for 1 Clash instead of 2 in combat. where does it say 2 Clash points to do this? p70 doesn't mention it.
• p196 : Many creatures have a Corruption rating.Does this do anything or is it purely for the purposes of rites like Touch of Law (p82)?

On the whole looks like a good system. 
 

Mine arrived yesterday. Looks nice. I noticed a few typos especially "Encumbrance" vs "Encumberance" a few times. Haven't had time to read it in detail yet though.