olskool

On 4/2/2017 at 5:16 AM, Joerg said:

This sounds a bit like the excess levels of success in dice pool systems.

Do you figure this from the attack roll only, without any influence of the parry? Or does a parry skill roll use a similar, contrary effect?

One might replace the damage roll entirely with this system.

 

I think that you are in danger of replacing the entire damage allocation mechanic with this system. This doesn't have to be a bad thing. But you are in experimental terrain there, and I wouldn't inflict such a change into a campaign's continuity.

On the other hand, you can neglect campaign continuity by tossing your players into a magical setting where these effects are limited to that environment and magics. Like a spell bestowed on them by the patron of a special quest into a neighboring realm with rules of its own, a pocket dimension or whatever. Make it clear to your players that this is a temporary or setting-specific effect, and test it out. If you are happy with the result, maybe the players can be enabled to carry the effect back to their normal setting - whether as a personal spell that needs activation, as a blessing that can be bestowed by a certain artifact, location or ritual, or as a permanent change to the normal setting.

 

 

Not my intention.  I just want Skill to have more of a hand in damage determination.  I DO NOT, however, want to reward that Skill with just a flat bonus.  The damage bonus should be modified by the Skill at that moment (in other words, skill modified by the circumstances of combat).

First, Thanks for the replies.  I'm really enjoying this forum.  Where the H**L were you guys back in the early 90's when I ran a Prax Campaign for 5 years?  I had questions that plagued me for a long time... 

As for Special Successes and the damages they inflict being in conflict with my skill modifier.  It is automatically dealt with by the cap on damage being the maximum damage you can roll (including STR bonuses).  If you remember from the Special Effects thread, I use a modified version of Special/Critical Successes. 

Crush:  This does MAX weapon damage plus I am allowing it to do 2 X MAX STR Bonus damage (ie. a 1d2 STR Bonus will do 4 points).  This hits the limit for the skill modifier automatically (because skill based damage cannot exceed MAX rolled Damage).  Thus you can ignore it.

Impale: This does MAX weapon damage plus ROLLED weapon damage (including STR bonus on the roll only) for up to 2 times damage.  Since the weapon does MAX damage initially, this hits the limit on skill based damage (which cannot increase damage beyond MAX rolled damage).  Thus you can ignore it.  

Slash: This does ROLLED damage TWICE plus any STR Bonus.  The Skill modifier COULD have an effect here if the player rolls a bad Damage Roll.

Critical Hit:  This does either the weapon's MAX damage while ignoring armor or 2 x MAX Damage in lieu of ignoring armor at the attacker's option.  This would include the skill modifier in either choice.

I'm actually considering this because my crew is already playing a Twilight2000/Twilight2013 game where skill modifies damage through a system know as the Margin of Success/Margin of Failure system (hereafter MoS/MoF).  Under this system, a success or failure is rated by how far under or over the Target Number you roll.  This is a familiar system to my players.  Secondly, there are THREE Military COMBAT veterans (including myself) and TWO police officers (once again including myself) in this gaming group.  One of my players even has an HTH kill using a Cold Steel Tactical Tomahawk during the battle for Ramadi Iraq.  They believe (and, for the record, I do too) that skill has a hand in damage inflicted and will call BS on any questionable "combat rules."  

One thing I do plan to implement regardless of my initial post is that... "EVERY 10 points OR Fraction thereof OVER 100% will inflict 1 extra Damage point.  This Bonus Damage CANNOT EXCEED the weapon's Maximum Rolled Damage (including STR Bonus)."  This would be in addition to the reduction in Parry and Dodge that 100% + Skill gives.    

A lot of you guys seem to have issues with "crunch."  I'm looking for a gritty, more "real world" gaming experience than I recently experienced as a player in an RQ6 game.  Way too cinematic for my tastes and not even remotely realistic with regards to combat. I have been GMing a Twilight2000/Twilight 2013 game that uses Margins of Error and Margins of Success on the skill rolls with 4 players for a year now and "crunch" is easy to deal with as long as you have players willing to help (like by doing calculations on their phones as you resolve the action with the player involved). 

I need to do something to help out my Sorcerers.  The currently proposed "rebuild" is still very "POW heavy" for Sorcery.   I am incredibly "stingy" with both magic (as you can see from the fact that I make people sacrifice POW for Spirit Magic and don't let them have more than 1 Intensity Level without attuning a Magic Rune) and magic items.  Controlling magic keeps the characters from completely dominating the environment at higher levels.  I don't, however, want to handicap a Sorcerer at higher levels by limiting his casting power due to limited POW availability.  I do let Sorcerers attune Spirit Runes (and I was doing this LONG BEFORE MRQ1 put it in print) which increases their MAX POW from 25 (my species maximum for humans) to 50.  Spirit Runes are scarce though, and Shamans are often actively hunting them (because they are the key to a Shaman's powers).  

I may keep my old system where a Shaman (or anyone else) had to find a Magic Rune to cast Spirit/Battle Magic at higher than 1 point.  However, these Runes are actively hunted by prospective Sorcerers (who need a Magic Rune just to cast Sorcery in the first place).

Regardless of what I decide to do, I will be giving the Rune Tree some serious thought.  

POW is now a "secondary characteristic" like HP which represents your magical "life force."  Originally I did a randomizer (as I noted above) but eventually, I changed from a number of D6s based on CHA and WILL to another system that actually works better (or more logically for a new player).  I took all the character's other stats EXCEPT SIZ and gave the character 1 point of POW for every 5 FULL points of each characteristic score that character possessed.  For example, a character with STR, CON, DEX, WILL, CHA and INT of 10 (a totally average character) would have a POW of 12.  Maximum POW is now determined as 25 (1 more than having all 6 characteristics at 20 would give).  PLEASE NOTE, I determine the character's attributes by rolling 3D6 + 2 which nets a total between 5 and 20.  I also set the human characteristic max at 20 (not 21), the max you can roll.   I substitute WILL for POW when determining most skills.  I do add CHA as a NEGATIVE modifier for Stealth skills though.  I justify this by explaining how people with a high CHA (and not necessarily good looks here) can "light up a room" or "stand out in a crowd."  This makes it harder for them to be "sneaky."  This means I never have to worry about "skill adjustments" since POW is now a "derived characteristic" that doesn't influence skills.

Increasing POW Beyond 25:

I allow anyone who has attuned a Spirit Rune like most Shamans do (and I was doing this since the early 90's... well before MRQ1 brought the concept to print) to increase their POW MAX to double their Base POW (as determined by their Characteristics total), or 50 points of POW for humans.  I will now put that Rune in the character's Rune Tree (as described in the part on of Chaosium's ongoing updates) as well.  I LOVE the potential of the Rune Tree and Opposed Runes!

The Luck Roll:

I also allow players to "expend" a point of POW (like casting a spell) and rolling under their current POW (post spell casting) to get a "luck roll."  It is assumed the character "prays to the gods," or "invokes the spirits" and rolls under his CURRENT POW to get a "Luck Modifier."  If successful, he adds his current POW to whatever success roll he is attempting (kind of like a minor form of Divine Intervention which isn't always successful).  This is treated just like casting a spell but anyone can do it.. as long as they have the POW to do it.   

I've been kicking around the idea of allowing a character to modify his damage by his skill level.  I have already taken steps to adjust STR Damage bonuses to a more realistic standard (starting with a +1/-1 Damage and based on surplus STR after subtracting the STR a given weapon requires to even wield instead of total STR) but I have had a discussion (in another forum) about how much skill affects the damage a weapon can do.  

The idea I'm toying with is... "for every 10 FULL points the Attacker rolls under his or her needed target number (to hit), they may add 1 point to the Damage Roll.  This CANNOT push the damage higher than a normally rolled MAXIMUM damage roll would inflict (in other words, if a weapon does 1D6, the maximum damage would still be 6). It does NOT apply to a Special Success (critical or crush/impale/slash) either."     

This will be my first attempt at such a house rule so I figured I'd ask the forum if any of you had tried something like this yet.  It's not a major issue, just something I'm thinking of trying out.   I just don't need The Law Of Unintended Consequences rearing its ugly head in the middle of a gaming session (especially if someone here has already dealt with it). 

On 3/28/2017 at 9:08 PM, Richard S. said:

Your idea sounds interesting, mostly for the power tree, but the reasoning behind the elemental diagram is that it follows the elemental progression.

I gathered as much.  I would still "oppose" them for gameplay purposes. This is because I would want my spell casters to choose between one element or another as a "rune affinity" OR "preferred" Elemental Rune.  So by "opposing" Earth/AIR, Fire/Water, and Lunar/Darkness, the player will be forced to choose one set of elemental spells to be "good" at while taking a hit when casting spells from the "opposing" Elemental Rune (just like the opposing power Runes in the Rune Tree).   I had an idea as I read the notes above about how to make POW/Magic Points (and other facets of magic) more manageable.  First, I need to provide a little "backround" on how I would make my magic system work.

Spirit Magic:  I love the idea of the Shaman but he was always weak in the older RQ2/RQ3 hybrid system I used in the 90's.  I also didn't like everyone and his brother having huge quantities of "battle magic/spirit magic," so I put a couple of conditions on acquiring Spirit Magic. First, I imposed a POW cost of 1 point to learn a spell.  Secondly,  I did the exact same thing that Moon Design did in RQ6, I made all the Spirit Magic spells 1 point only for NON-SHAMAN casters (and modified their effects accordingly).  I then allowed a Shaman (or certain Rune Cults) to boost Spirit Magic like Sorcery.  For the non-shaman to get a spell, you would go to the local temple or shaman, pay your money, and roll under POW X 5.  If successful, you would lose 1 point of POW (but gained a POW gain roll for the experience) and could cast the spell at INT + POW.  This will now become POW OR Rune Affinity Rating (for the Rune related to that spell), whichever is LOWER.  

Spirit Magic, Shaman: The difference between the Shaman and everyday Spirit Magic users is that the Shaman has endured a ritual to become a Shaman.  I used to require that the Shaman "attune" a Spirit Rune (ala MRQ1).  Now, the Shaman will complete the ritual and put the Spirit Rune in his Rune Tree.  It is this Rune Affiliation that will allow the Shaman to modify Spirit Magic just like Sorcery.  The magic points that a Shaman can generate will be 1/10th their Spirit Rune Affiliation rating times 1/10th their Rune Affiliation rating for the SPELL being cast.  For example, a Shaman with a Spirit Rune Affiliation of 58% and a Fire Rune Affiliation of 65% casts a Fireblade spell (normally doing 1D6 damage) with a skill of 42%.  His maximum spell Magnitude is the difference between his casting skill and his actual dice roll divided by 10 (rounding up).  He must spend 1 point of his POW (magic points) per Magnitude but he gains multiple magic points to modify that spell for each point of POW he expends to manipulate it.    For each point of POW he spends on modifying the spell, he will be able to generate 42 magic points for modifying range, duration, and area of effect (I don't allow multi-spell with Spirit Magic).  His manipulation of the spell is limited by either his Manipulation Skill  ROLL/10 (the dice roll subtracted from his actual Manipulation skill) OR his Rune Affiliation/10 rounding up (7 for the Shaman above), whichever is LOWER.  He then multiplies the Intensity of each chosen manipulation (range, duration, etc) by the Magnitude of the spell to determine how many of these "bonus" magic points that specific Manipulation takes up.  Thus a Magnitude 3 Fireblade spell (doing 3D6 damage) with an Intensity 10 duration would require 30 magic points of the 42 points each point of POW would generate.  This makes stronger magic affordable using the Rune Tree concept.

Sorcery: This would operate the same as the Shaman's Spirit Magic above with the exception that the Magic Rune would be used for Sorcery instead of the Spirit Rune.  Sorcery also includes TWO subskills in my system.  The first is the Spell Manipulation Skill and the second is the Combine Spells Skill (for combining multiple spell effects).  The Combine manipulation would become more complicated once you begin to consider the "what ifs." Like, what happens if a Sorcerer tries to combine a Water Rune spell and a Fire Rune spell together?

All that aside, I'm very excited by the possibilities presented by the Rune Tree Concept Chaosium has presented in these notes. 

On 2/22/2017 at 8:49 AM, Atgxtg said:

It wans't too bad in old RQ. A bit of an annoyance though. 

Pershaps POW should be taken out of the skill percentages and instead affect skill use in some other way? Say, something along the lines of spending Magic Points to adjust die rolls as a form of Luck. Kinda like Stormbringer's old Elan mechanic. 

 

I added the Willpower stat to replace POW in my game.  POW becomes a "secondary" stat, like Hit points, based on a roll and modified by WILL and CHA.  It is strictly a measure of magical power in my game.    

Runes On The Character Sheet:

I like your Pentagram and Rune Tree ideas on the sample character sheet.  I do have a couple of suggestions that you might consider examining.  On the Pentagram I would suggest that the Elements should be diametrically opposed like the Powers Runes.  For example, I would put the Elements in the following order (from the Top going Counter-Clockwise like your design did)  Air, Fire, Earth, Darkness, and Water.  Moon goes in the center.  This keeps Air & Earth as far apart as possible.  It does the same for Fire & Water.  Earth shelters Darkness from (light bearing) Fire and Darkness separates Earth and Water (both joining & separating them like the dark ocean Glorantha floats on).  The top of the Pentagram would "rotate" based on your own Rune Affiliations or based on the Sorcery/Summoning you are attempting.

The Moon in the center becomes significant because the Goddess just emerged from Glorantha and has no established place on the diagram (hence, her placement).  Her "best fit" would be between Fire and Air.  This also puts her in opposition to Darkness.  However, in order to rise to this position, she must take power from Fire and Air.  This is a cause of conflict (the Hero War's?).  

The Rune Tree is very cool but I have a suggestion about Runes and Geneology/Race.  I would suggest that the Man Rune really be "Intelligent Being" (the default "slang" meaning could still be Man).  Its position on top of the tree indicates an "evolution" to "Intelligent being." The bottom of the Rune Tree should be a couple of vertically stacked boxes.  The TOP box indicates the character's Geneology based on the Rune placed there.  A Beast Rune at the bottom of the Tree and Man at the top would translate to "Intelligent being from beast."  Putting a Plant Rune in the bottom changes the meaning to "Intelligent being from plant" (an Elf or Runner).  Finally, placing the Dragon Rune (Dragonnewt) and Man together would beget Dragonnewts, Newts, or Slargers.  The BOTTOM Geneology box would be for "evolutions" during game play.   A Shaman might place the Spirit Rune there.  The Eastern Empire's Dragon Warriors would put the Dragon (Dragonnewt) Rune there as they evolved into Dragons.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             I would also suggest the REMOVAL of the Chaos Rune from the Form Runes.  This is because ANY RUNE (not just forms) can be afflicted with the scourge of Chaos.  I would suggest that Chaos should be a Condition Rune with the Mastery, Magic, and Infinity Runes simply because it can combine with most other Runes (just like the other Condition Runes do).  This also explains why Chaos is so hard to destroy, it can exist in conjunction with any other Rune.  Finally, I would espouse the Rune Tree have empty boxes running vertically (up) BETWEEN the horizontal lines that connect the opposing Power Runes.  These boxes would be used to place either Elemental or Mastery Runes that the character masters during the game (like when attaining Rune Lord or Rune Priest status).  For example, a Rune Lord becomes a Hero and gains access to the Infinity Rune.  That Rune would be placed in one of the vertical boxes (probably right under the Man Rune).    

These ideas would help the character's Rune Tree "evolve" during game play and allow the player to see his character's affiliations and origins "at a glance."    

8 hours ago, styopa said:

I thought this WAS RQ3's original rule?  Maybe I changed it so long ago I forgot the original.

Anyway, same here, except in the case of a clearly softer material parrying a harder one, then the excess damage goes straight to the AP, not just reducing it by 1.

Wood shield vs axe, eventually wood shield WILL be flinders.

 

Yes, it was.  That should have read "...I modified RQ2 to RQ3's original rules...." My brain must have jumped ahead of my fingers.  Based on the modifications I made, you could also argue that I modified RQ3 to RQ2 since the "give and take" from both games was almost 50/50. I think that is the biggest advantage that RQ (or BRP) has.  You can use ANY percentile based game to modify it pretty easily.  I love that about skill based gaming systems (percentile or otherwise).  

There are two issues with this study.  The first is (as has been brought up by almost everyone) what effect did skill have upon the placement of those wounds?  The second question is what effect did armor play in the placement of those wounds?  Weaknesses in the deceased warrior's armor could result in those wounds (the warrior's armor & shield having stopped or deflected potential wounds to the chest or left arm) being inflicted where they were.  I saw an Army study on wound locations during Vietnam and most firearm inflicted wounds were on the torso or upper legs.  This coincided with the quick "center-of-mass" shots that most armies trained for.  In close combat, a number of bayonet wounds were inflicted on the arms (which one would expect in HTH combat) while many soldiers had their LBE and flak jackets shredded but sustained NO stab wounds to the torso because the flak vest or equipment on the soldier's LBE deflected the thrust.  I was a bit skeptical of the flak vest but it does sometimes prevent a blade from completely penetrating on an "off angle" attack due to its bulk.    

All of the RQ editions have good ideas that can be merged into an older (or newer) game system.  For instance, I liked Mongoose Publishing's approach to weapon durability so I incorporated it into my campaign.  They use both Armor Points and Hit Points for weapons.  I took that idea for both my weapons and shields.  A broadsword in my game has 8 Armor Points and 20 Hit Points.  A medium shield made of wood has 5 Ap and 10 Hp, while a medium shield made of hardwood and bronze has 10 Ap and 20 Hp (at the expense of greater weight).  

To enhance this, I modified RQ3's original rules so that once the weapon's AP is exceeded, the weapon's HPs take a ONE point reduction and the damage passes on to the defender.  This gives the average sword wielder more than twenty parries (perhaps hundreds if his attackers are using lighter damage weapons) before his weapon breaks (unlike RQ2, RQ3's rules allowed a warrior to go into battle without having to carry a couple of replacement swords).    

Just take what you need for your game and leave the rest behind.          

I liked the Special Effects listed in the back of RQ2's book.  I eventually "modded" them to the following...

Impale: Does Weapon's MAXIMUM Damage + Weapon's ROLLED Damage + ROLLED STR Bonus Damage = Total Damage.  The weapon may become stuck.  

Slash: Does Weapon's ROLLED Damage + Weapon's ROLLED Damage + ROLLED STR Bonus Damage = Total Damage.  The weapon may become stuck, BUT the chance of extracting it is DOUBLE the chance of removing an Impale (because impales penetrate much deeper).

Crush: Does Weapon's MAXIMUM Damage + MAXIMUM STR Bonus Damage = Total Damage.  The weapon does not become "stuck" in the target.

Critical Hits: Does 2 X Weapon's MAXIMUM TOTAL Damage (Weapon+STR Damage) OR the Weapon's Maximum Total Damage (weapon+STR Damage) and ignores the defender's NON-MAGICAL armor, at the attacker's option. 

Knockdown:  I averaged STR, SIZ, and DEX to get a character's (or NPC's) Knockdown rating.  This average was the damage needed to knock a character prone.  A character would be knocked back 1 meter for damage exceeding 2 X Knockdown, 2 meters if the damage exceeded 3 X Knockdown, and so on.  Knockdowns generally only occur on Special Successes because normal weapon damage didn't run as high as the 12 average score needed for a Knockdown to occur.  This is intentional as most experienced fighters are hard to knock down in real life.    

 I didn't really buy into MRQ's/RQ6's method of using Special Effects (designed to mirror the cinematic effects seen in video games) because they overshadowed the brutal nature of RQ melee.  In fact, they would have made a pretty good card game ("I'll see your Pin Weapon, and raise you a Change Range!").  That being said, IF they were used exclusively for Special Success in RQ, they would have a lot of merit there.  Both Impales and Slashes could include the RQ6 "Bleed" effect. Crushing Blows could include "Stun Location" and flails and whips could include "Entangle Location" as well.  Grappling/HTH Crushing Blows could include "Pin Weapon/Location" as well.  Parried Slashes and Crushes could allow the application of "Sunder Weapon" at the attacker's option.  These effects would be in addition to the enhanced damage rolls, of course.