icebrand

Hmmm... I don't have house rules, i have a complete game system LOL (which happens to be compatible with RQ2, but has a ton from RQG and Elric!)

Well, what would be the point of making them roll? I kind of need context for this!

Im gonna assume this is RQG and you are roleplaying initiations either at session 0/1 or as a flashback.

So, you need not only to prepare the whole initiation ritual, but also figure out how they can succeed when (if) they fail the rolls; so maybe if they fail the endurance test they need to succeed on a harder challenge (with cult skills?) but again keep in mind what could happen if they fail again?

Maybe failing everything but persevering and pushing on anyway in the face of defeat was the *real* challenge all along?

Now, if failing the initiation is a real possibility, i honestly believe the CON rolls are "overly punsishing" for a "normal" RQ Game (maybe in your glorantha initiates are fewer and very special?)

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

If the mooks kill off the PCs at too high a rate, you run out of PCs. Because it kills a campaign and causes players to stop playing. 

Now the trick is to provide enough of a risk that it could happen to keep the game existing, but not have it happen enough to disrupt the game.

It's the same reason why the NPCs doen't have skill scores assigned randomly. Realistically, a fledgling PC could run into a master swordsman in his first fight, but that doesn't happen in games because it makes for a bad game

If the mooks kill off the PCs then the PCs misplayed and it's 100% on them!

To be honest i used to "do the trick" (or try to). Nowadays? Nah!

If you take the risk, fail, and it doesnt "disrupt" the game, then it wasnt a risk at all!!!

My NPCs dont come randomized because it's a lot of work; but why not? Why can't your fledgling hero stumble around a swordsmaster? 

I mean noone FORCES you to fight them, and if you do and (most likely) lose, thats on you;  you can do whatever you like, but your actions have consequences.

I remember i was DMing for a level 6 group in D&D and they found out the great power that could help them defeat the invading orc army was a Lich. They didnt like it and decided to get vocal about it. The Lich warned them in a friendly manner, and the Barbarian decided to reply by raging (which triggered a contigency and then i had the pleasure of TPKing before any player could roll a single die)... Was the adventure disrupted? Probably. Did the players learn something? Well, i'm not sure but at least now they know theres no such thing as a CR6 Lich 😂

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

Not quite anything. In fact, a lot of what can and will happen is clearly spelled out. Much of what makes Glorantha interesting is stuff that is pre-written pre-ordianed, and involves heroes who overcome the odds and accomplish great things. That's what makes them appealing

... FOR YOU.

Like, seriously, this "does it" for you, and thats awesome, but it means nothing to me; when i want pre-written pre-ordained i just read a book.

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

Player death can ruin an adventure, depending on where and when, and how much depended upon that player character. The more of a heroic campaign you are going for the more difficult such events can be.

If you are running a "generic" game where the PCs are adventueres who don't affect the big picture much, and everything can be allowed to play out however the dice fall, then yeah, PC death isn't that big a thing to the campaign. But if the game is story focused and a PC has a major role then death can ruin not only an adventure but a campaign

Why would a player death ruin a campaign? Change it? Sure... End it?? Maybe? But end... Idk man maybe it's all that pre-ordained thing i don't do.

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

It's not long chargen, it's player investment. Once the character starts to develop, no matter when, they player gets invested and doesn't wan't to loose that character. But, conversely they want (and need) to be put at risk and overcome obstacles in order for the adventures to be exciting and satisfying. My last group was playing Tunnels & Trolls a game where chargen takes about ten minutes, yet players who got invested in thier characters didn't want to lose them

If they don't want to lose their characters then they better play well, be lucky and/or bribe me well enough 😂.

I love that they are invested in their characters, heck, im usually invested in their characters as well... Shame the universe is a cold, uncaring place and if the die say you die you better believe you meeting daka fal!

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

that is because no one wants to see a movie where the main characters get killed off half way through, and the bad guys win. 

The place beyond the pines, psycho, burn after reading, cain, contagion, the blob, life, executive decision (that one is baaad lol), deadproof, live and die in la, la confidential, cabin in the woods, hostel, the Transformers one when optimus prime dies 5 minutes in (irredeemable!!!), Alien, the thin red line, the boys from brazil, gi Joe retaliation...

I can go on but on all those the protagonist dies midway and is replaced by someone else.

As for movies where Bad guys win...

Starwars 3 & 5, Chinatown, No country for old men, seven, brightburn, Jason X (best movie in the franchise btw), most romero zombie movies, 300, gladiator, again i could keep going (this one has many more examples than the former).

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

What if the Empire blows up the Falcon before they make the jump to lightspeed?

They werent actually firing at them, just pretending; you see, they had a tracking device and it was just the exact same plan Vader used earlier in the kenobi series, because Vader doesnt just fail, he fails again and again trying the same thing (man that series was super disappointing).

Lets say a good GM saw an inevitable TPK and came up with an alternative.

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

the thing with a narrative/story type of advenure with heroic PCs wo are needed for something. If they fail then the universe fails with them. And the same thing can happen in RQ, if the PCs are that important to the course of events. 

Why should the universe not fail? If the stakes of the conflict are the universe exploding... Well, congrats for running a super awesome campaign? Then the PCs die and you know what? You *SHOULD* blow up the universe!!! That will teach them!!

Like... Consider it, you have nothing to lose!

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

that isn't a feature of RuneQuest so much as you choice of GMing style. Which is fine, as long as you understand what it means, and also what that means with dice and multiple attempts. What it means with adventures design and so on. 

Lets say BRP enables that kind of playstyle. And yeah, i try to avoid making people roll the same thing over and over because i have a vague idea of how maths work 🙂

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

Wow, were are you located? I gamed in the Northeast U.S. and the DI houserule was as common to all the AD&D groups as the critical hit/natural 20 does does damage houserule. It was so prevelant that most people just assumed it existed unless told otherwise. 

I'm in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Back then we played AD&D 2e with a photocopied book because there was nowhere to buy the thing unless you phisically went to the US or something!

Also heres the history of crítical hits for dungeons and dragons: 

https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/a-short-history-of-critical-hits-in-dd/

Ad&D 2e had several optional rules for crits, we used roll double weapon damage.

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

I'd think a Runelord is at least a Lvl 10-11 character based upon the relative combat skill. A Runlord needs a 90%+ weapon skill, and to have a 90% base chance to hit in D&D would require a fighter to be at least level 8. That ignore attribute modifiers, specialties and such, but it also ignores Armor Class. But basically if they are uspposed to be master swordsmen they must be highly skilled and thus high level

Yeah but you just can't equate them like that. A level 11 caster can cast level 6 spells; thats way beyond any RQ skill. Oh, by the way, a level 11 Barbarian can drop from orbit and do a super hero landing  (without dying, because they are angry or smth).

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

More like Macintosh to Golden Declicious. Both do the same thing, simulate heroic fantasy world combat, but they do so in different ways

More like oranges and lemons maybe. I think D&D and RQ are different fantasy subgenres; the story you get by the rules will be wildly different in both systems.

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

don't know if RQ is more "realistic", per say. I've never seen anyone cast fireblade, or have thier allied spirirt do so for them in real life. I get your point, but RQ isn't all that more "realistic" than D&D.   It's grittier and have a higher element of risk to them

RQ is "grittier" if you want? I think runequest rules are closer to my perception of reality than D&D's, and it's not even close. You may disagree of course, but everyone knows i'm always right 😂

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

Yeah, but for you to be dfown in the first place is the tough bit. 10th level fighter vs. 1HD monster is a foregone conclusion in D&D. It's mostly so in RQ/BRP but not quite. Pretty much anybody can fall to a single lucky critical and that is a game changer

But a level 10 is not a basic runelord; a level 10 is a runelord that would have a very high skill and be able to fight a lot of trollkin at once.

A runelord that drops a trollkin to 5% attack and parry is actually less threatened by it than a level 10 fighter fighting a 1hd creature; the trollkin has under 1% of actually hitting, and even then it may do no damage due to armor or get their hit healed. Worst case scenario the runelord needs to ID, but thats around the same chance of the 1hd creature critting you 2x while you miss everything (in this extreme D&D is less punsishing through, which takes us to my 100% true and uncontestable fact that RQ is more realistic 🤪).

The "lucky crítical hit" really does need to be lucky.

1st your mook needs to crit. Crit chances are already low, and when fighting high level rune masters, it's probably no greater than 1-2%.

After you hit, you also need the runemaster not to parry you. Even critting for 14pts with your trollkin spear will quickly become nothing if parried, which happens 19/20 times.

So, lets say the 1% crit chance trollkin makes it, and the runelord 96-00s... Ok, now theres 70% you hit a non vital area, which will be healed, but now the trollkin is putting the runelord against the ropes, so they are likely to see rune magic retaliation (gg).

But, lets say you hit vitals! This is actually a 0,015% chance. It's 1 and a half in 10 thousand... Ok, so now the runelord DIs, and depending on the cult and player predisposition the poor cursed uz is looking at best at a horrible, gruesome, exceedingly cruel death, because players reaaaaaly hate losing POW and if the culprit is a friggin trollkin i can easily imagine them straight up torturing the thing.

And no matter if it's a single trollkin, or two or five... How many times are you gonna roll 0,015% back to back? (The answer is one... At best).

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

, it's a non feature. 

First off mook has to drop the  PC. This is the tough bit.

Secondly mook kills downed PC, easy bit.

Thirdly, non of the other PCs do anything about it.

The mook didnt drop Rurik, the shade did. For comparison, a large elemental is CR5. Thats not a mook, thats a monster for 4 level 5 players, AND there were other mooks.

Thirdly, there was another single PC, maybe they couldnt help or something.

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

Mathematically speaking, if you shoot at James Bond or the Batman enough, you will eventually hit and kill them. But if that were to happen it would end the series, so it doesn't happen. Or it jet's retcooned or rebooted.

Mathematically speaking, if you play the lottery enough times, you will eventually hit the jackpot... Only we both know this isnt how it works?

If you hit Batman or Bond long enough you hit them and wound them. Death wasnt a possibility because of the medium. Death IS a possibility in RPGs.

This is about plot armor, not game mechanics!

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

I agree. Let the dice fall where they may, and deal with the consequences, unless your group is using hero points or DI or something. 

💪💪💪💪

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

 I was fine with it though because without the risk of that happening the game wouldn't have been an exciting and my accomplishments would have felt empty since they would have been rigged

This. This a thousand times.

What good are the players exploits if it was actually the GM making them succeed?

On 6/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Atgxtg said:

But most of the protection/screening comes is the adventure design, not in the gameplay. They are written such that they PCs have a better than average chance of success. The PCs rareley if over, are over matched in skil and ability. Becuase it bad storytelling and bad gaming to just beat down the heroes every time

Yes, thats why the players have like..  70-90% (made up %) chance, but thing is... What happens the other 30-10% of the time?

I'm a firm believer in failing forward (so, those times you lose face / limbs / die).

Other people just "fudge it". At our table, we call that cheating; we are ok with changing a rule, or introducing mechanics. We are not ok with the GM (or anyone) messing with the dice. If You don't like the result you don't roll; we have agreed on rules -which may or may not be raw- so we play by them. 

Ours is not "the GM story we are part of" but everyones story. The dice guide us better since they don't have any bias!

(Continuing on next post because this is too long and the editor is going crazy in my phone)

4 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

No, but as before only certain cult ranks can gain Sunspear.

So, basically rq2 yelmalio with extras!!! 

Not bad, not bad at all! They become badass once more!

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Depends on what vbersion of D&D you are playing and under what house rules. Most groups that played AD&D had some sort of DI rule, usually along the lines of Level as a percentage. And there are all sorts of raise from the dead/wish type spells that could have gotten him back.

My D&D experience is 95% with AD&D 2e and 5% 3/3.5ed.

Personally this is the 1st time i hear about DI in d&d, and realistically all those types of spells are for characters who are vastly more powerful than whatever RQ RAW can generate: raise dead (the most basic res spell) is a lv5 cleric spell, which means you need to be lv9(!) to cast it and as a lv9 cleric you should be more powerful than any RQ PC (or about the same with the most powerful players, but it's *much* easier to get there).

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

But the key point is that high level PCs aren't at nearly as much risk against low level oppoents in D&D than in RQ or other skill based RPGs

Because RQ and D&D are different genres! Imagine a runelord is what? Lv5? Sure, you have more HP and can't get 1hit by a mook, but many mooks can still take resources, while in RQ you parry way more attacks, negating all damage.

Again, apples to oranges; D&D is attrition based, and RQ is more realistic, fights are either parry or take a wound that has a good chance to take you out.

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Only for massive damage. Rarely if ever for a mook stabbing a body while it's down or already dead.

If a mook stabs you while you are down in current D&D you automatically fail your dead save; any damage does the same, it doesnt matter. Same thing with Coup de Grace in 3e!

In 2e if you are down a mook is super dangerous! You died at -10 as far as i can remember? So your con/level didnt matter at all!!!

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Because the rest really isn't all that relevant. In just about any RPG other RQ the situation couldn't happen.

It's a feature, not a bug. And it's an amazing feature, and i read about tons of people ignoring it!

3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

, how did the Trollkin kill Rurik after Rurik called DI but before he got back up? DI should have gone off on SR 0 in RQ2 so Rurik should have been able to defend himself

I have no idea. It reads like Rurik died by a shade attack, then uses DI not to die, but he was on the ground or something and the trollkin criticalled on a leg, so he was damaged from before? 

5 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

I understand that a PC taking lots of risks is eventually going to fall to something, just by the percentages, but that is secondary to the fact that a hero type PC fell to a mook

Is it really that secondary? It's actually the strength and beauty of RQ; there are no mooks, everyone is a person. I think this is why i dislike super stuff outside the rules, it breaks the contract.

4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

You're missing the point. The point is when gaming we want the risk of of death to make the fights exciting but we also don't really want our PCs taken out by a random mook and ruin the adventure

And i say... Why not? You already are playing RuneQuest, why not play the strengths? Yes a random "mook" can totally take you out.

I mean, if as i player i find out my GM made the broo not impale me in the head for 27 points and i die, then what good is my runelordship? I'm don't really have the Mastery rune, i would not deserve my title any more than a random NPC the GM popped out of thin air; id rather die to a mook than have my adventuring career being... I don't know how to say it... Fake?

I think there are other systems that do that kind of game better -but of course they don't do glorantha at all, unless you play HQ- RQ on the other hand, is a magical game where anything can happen, for good and for bad. 

Also a player death doesnt ruin the adventure, just derails it! I fear a "weakness" of the game is that it has a long chargen; this doesnt synergize very well with all these super lethal situations the adventurers face all the time, but you can always make everyone roll a backup character (i have a stack of customizable pregens instead).

4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

For example, image how Star Wars would have gone if one of those Strotroopers had actually hit Han Solo before he took off in the Falcon?

Well, thats because it's a George Lucas as GM. He values characters because it's a movie and stuff. 

But if you are playing han solo at my runequest, well... The storm trooper shoots you and you die, and thats why RQ aint very good for a starwars game. 

Maybe chewbacca saves the party and they fly to bespin, and Lando takes over? Maybe han solos twin, dan solo comes to the rescue? 

For me the magic of runequest is that i don't know what's gonna happen. And if the dm doesnt know, you can bet the players don't either!!! And that, for me, makes for the ultimate adventure game.

The spine of the night. Runequestest thing ive ever seen!

Trailer: 

On 6/4/2022 at 8:56 AM, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

Where do you stand between "Keeping it bronze" age and "Keep it fantastic" how weird does your magic go?

YES. 😂

On 6/4/2022 at 8:56 AM, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

Are your ghosts 'spirited away' style?

My ghosts are overly edgy and dramatic and obsessed with whatever they made them ghosts. Ghosts are kinda losers and played for laughs. Some have STR (and can move stuff) and those are the assholy variant.

Spirits are mob psycho 100 style (or studio ghibli style if they be good).

On 6/4/2022 at 8:56 AM, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

Are your bear strength casters full blown werebears or at least shirt-ripping fma style? 

Not only that but you also get a bear avatar behind you while you cast!!!

On 6/4/2022 at 8:56 AM, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

Are there ancient alien blasters or old abandoned buildings from before the monkeys took over glorantha?

My characters once found "the horror from the stars", a curious stone from the stars that teleported them wherever they wanted (at -1 CON price) and answered whatever they asked (INTx1 or fall down in agony while too much information floods your head).

Of course "it" had an agenda; the players throught it was an alien supercoputer but it was the one and only nyarlathotep speaking through his Shining Trapezohedron. Sadly for Big N, the players threw the item in a lake, and we all know thats a foolproof way of getting rid of it (or not?)

On 6/4/2022 at 8:56 AM, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

Are your shields glowing balls of lightning or dragon ball auras ?

My shields are big semi translucent magical shields in front of your character. This gives me a way for crits / powered spells to byspass them!

On 6/4/2022 at 8:56 AM, SevenSistersOfVinga said:

How weird does it get? I guess most people keeps it close to bronze age, just with invisible armor and damage

I did that my previous campaign. Magic gets very "meta" this way, enemies can't tell if you have a sword or a man-portable WMD, 

2 hours ago, g33k said:

Look at modern fencing (foil, epee, saber).  All are 1H, all use parries.

Can a 1H longsword/smallsword/armingsword/etc forcefully "block" a 2H battleaxe/greatsword/etc?  Well, probably not, no.
 

Yes swords can parry. I was asking about 1h axe/mace/spear, who can all parry 2h, but 1h i just can't picture it.

Did people (historically) parry with 1h spear, axes or maces?

2h style you parry with the haft, i can picture that, but 1h?

Like, ive seen those guys fighting on YouTube and from the looks of it, you can't?

I'm considering making those weapons parry at 1/2%; if you have one of those you either bring a shield or dodge! 

Anyone with real life (like HEMA or SCA) experience can chime in? 

Well, thanks in advance!!! 

3 minutes ago, Martin Dick said:

I think any 17 year old Humakti initiate with just Sword Trance is going to be wiped by an Orlanthi WindLord, but even if I assume that you are correct, it doesn't matter. 

It is intended Jeff himself confirmed it. If it doesnt matter for you what's your issue with it???

7 minutes ago, Martin Dick said:

As well, I really don't think you can validly say that you don't get to complain about it, you've posted 19 times to this thread alone complaining about it,

Please quote my complaints; that would be super weird (because i have none). 

8 minutes ago, Martin Dick said:

I think you've stated your point again and again and again, you just don't like most people's answer.

What message are you even reading? I didnt make this thread, i didnt complain, and i didnt make no points. 

6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Perhaps you should read the "how do I defeat Swordtrance?" thread...

I don't need to? I was just pointing out canon.

59 minutes ago, Martin Dick said:

If every time someone decides to be a warrior, they choose either Humakt or Babeester Gor,  not because they want to play a taciturn killer who lives by the saying that 'Violence is always an option' and who will take that option, but because that's the game-mechanically best option to maximise your combat power and if every warrior in the campaign is either in the cult of Humakt or the cult of Babeester Gor and there are no Orlanth or Heler or Odaylan or Yinkin or Yelmalio or Rigsdal or Storm Bull warriors (in a Sartarite setting), then I think its fair to say that the broader expectations of the fiction are not being conformed to and that it is min/maxing.

I would say that the rules fail to conform in this case; this would be akin to playing dnd and saying "ok, you want to be a fighter, you can be lv1, lv3 or lv5" and then complain that people always pick level 5 and this doesnt fit the lore where there are many more lv1s.

But this is glorantha and the fiction says the 17-year old humakti initiate just uses 1 RP and beats the crap out of the wind lord like Mike Tyson in his prime against a middle schooler; the game is not balanced so this is a feature and you don't get to complain about it.

9 minutes ago, Martin Dick said:

Based on this, I'm really not clear why you are so down on Yelmalio, give them a decent array of spirit magic and a power enhancing crystal and they'll be reasonably competitive with Humakt/Babeester Gor. 

I'm sorry, "being down with" means being ok with it, right? They already were competitive in my campaign a year ago, i have no horse in the yelmalio race other than discuss mechanics which is something i enjoy.

Also humakt got nerfed because a starting character with some MP automatically wins every single melee and that made for very boring/frustrating gameplay.

5 minutes ago, Martin Dick said:

Picking Humakt/Babeester Gor as your cult, making sure in character creation that you get your weapon skill as high as possible and choosing Axe Trance/Slash or Sword Trance/True Sword is basic warrior min/maxing in RQG, so yes, it sounds like min/maxing is going on

I don't think so. If you want to play a warrior those are the warrior cults, why pick something else? Also a (young) warrior definitively should have their weapon skill as their highest? 

Id argue that a humakti whose best skill*isnt* sword is a poorly built. Reverse minmaxing if you will.

13 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

@icebrand TBH, I'm surprised you're even sticking with RQG. I would have thought you'd be playing 13th Age instead, which seems to suit your ideals much better, but still in a version of Glorantha.

Why are you surprised? I think you are very confused about the type of games i run. 

13th age looks super cool but it's very complicated to run and doesnt have much content.

2 minutes ago, Martin Dick said:

Start with base RQG character at 90% Broadsword - Be relatively lucky and increase it to a natural 128% from experience rolls over a number of seasons, do a HeroQuest and get plus 10% to your Broadsword, use Bladesharp 6 and have a Power enhancing crystal that boosts it to Bladesharp 12 (+60%) and have the magical broadsword Wrath with a +20%, adding up to 218%. I haven't really even been trying that hard or using Runes/Passions. And when the HeroQuest rules come out, then there will be even more ways to boost something. Which is entirely something a Yelmalian player character can do

30 points armour - 6 point plate, 8 points of Shield (=16 points) Protection 5 with power-enhancing crystal = Protection 10 = 5 + 16 + 10 = 32 points of armour

Of course this all when supercharged, he can only do this once per season as he has 10 RP, so it's got to be something epic for him to go all in.

Oh, ok! If i had your character i would have said "138% attack 6 AP" since the rest is all magic and in our group never add that to baseline stats! 

2 hours ago, Martin Dick said:

That's not really an an answer, with my current Orlanthi thane, when I stack my character, I'm hitting and parrying at around 220% without using runes or passions, have 30 points or so of armour, does 1d8 +1d4 +12 points of damage, so I think I'm okay at RQ maths

I imagine thats not an RQG character, i mean how do you get 220% without dying of old age? Thats like 20+ years of experience if you start with 100% and like a 35% modifier. Also 30 AP??? What are you wearing, castle wall armor? 😅

And +12 damage? Thats like 11 pts of bladesharp or what?

Anyway, what i meant by being good at maths is that even your character can die if they fail to parry a crit, so you need to play accordingly.

2 hours ago, Martin Dick said:

, the most exciting combat I had in RQG was fighting a Cacodemon for the second time after it had revived from its first death,

THE cacodemon? Or a fiend?

2 hours ago, Martin Dick said:

And of course the other reason that min/maxing to the nth degree is pointless, is because the GM generally just min/maxes back at you

In my current campaign you play with semi-pregens and enemies are as they are in the book or veterans with +20% for random encounters, or whatever comes in the scenarios for NPCs.

There is no minmaxing going on unless you consider picking a cult, your skills and spells minmaxing.

Also as a GM i feel *zero* need to minmax; like if you are homebrewing the encounter, no need to tweak anything, you can just add more creatures until You win. I mean your orlanthi clearly mops the floor with a teen that works at mcdonald's (he has no magic, 9 all stats, club 25% 1d6), but can you win against 20? 100? 500?

2 hours ago, Martin Dick said:

 But some people like a powergaming campaign (e.g. Secrets of Dorastor) and the various RQs are well-suited to that style of game and obviously that's MGF for some people, but you shouldn't assume that we all prefer that sort of game and that maybe the design decisions of Jeff and Jason are not jokes etc, but just aiming at a different type of game than the one you play

I don't play that type of game anymore. Been there, done that, D&D does it much much much better (i don't like D&D btw).

I play published stuff, if Jeff and Jason design with a different aim i'm probably playing as intended what am i even playing if not?

If anything i'm playing *less* powergamey than RAW; for example at my table shield only gives 1 armor / point and i don't allow trance spells. (Also some other tweaks, i have jeffs written permission btw 🤪)

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

For me, Yelorna is a good Hunting goddess, as she has magic that assists Missile Weapons and to help with tracking at night.

Yelorna is the best!!!

Star track to find your prey, then you spend *all* your runepoints in shooting star and bam! Pre-cooked food!!!

29 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Early modern pike didn't bother with shields, and the classical Greek hoplites didn't use a pike. The Macedonians were the ones with pike + shield. And I believe the Macedonian pike only used the shield passively (slung from the neck, the way it worked in RQ3), unlike the RQG Yelmalio style where you can actively parry with it while using a pike?

Macedonians used a pelta, which is smaller than a hoplite shield. The shield was slung from the neck and the arm; its size doesnt cover the hand so you can use your 2h spear.

The shield does have mobility, it's not just hanging there. In real life skilled people would attack the eyes or other unarmored locations, a fixed shield would have been pretty useless.

Anecdotically, it's kind of imposible to use a pike and a large shield (like a hoplon and a sarissa). In real life you have either longspear (1h) + large shield or pike (2h) + medium shield.

source: google 

I once bought Edge's Hero Wars in spanish...

Man that was the worst translation since ad&d's and "arco-x" y "cerrojo de relámpagos" lol.

If all their books are like that they kind of deserve to be dropped by chaosium, they just dont have enough quality.

5 minutes ago, Jeff said:

It is intended. 

Do you have any advice on how to play against it?

When my players use it i feel i'm misplaying unless i dismiss it, and then the game revolves around who has more RP; also dismissing it every time it gets cast gets old and doesnt feel satisfactory, i feel it's a lose/lose situation (to the point i had to forbid the spell).

10 minutes ago, Jeff said:

You are clearly playing a different style of game with different player expectations than the game designers.

I don't know what to tell you since march '21 we played published scenarios exclusively; im not privy to the design team expectations, but i can't believe they are THAT different? 

21 minutes ago, JRE said:

I prefer players that are less trigger happy, so it is likely we will keep skills unreduced, partly because we have played that way thirty years, but also because I want players to take combat seriously.

Yeah, i fear the system evolved and some legacy features don't work as well with it.

Rq2 has skills over 100% reducing the opponents *but* only runelords could go over 100 (and if they became lord+priest they couldnt increase skill any longer)

The % increase magic was límited to +20% weapon enchant, Morale (very situational) and fanaticism (which had plenty counterplay with demoralize and "beating the crap out of the guy who can't parry"

RQ3 came along with huge % increases (Berserker, uncapped spirit magic, Axe trance, etc) but your skill didnt reduce the opponents and once above 100 it wansnt that big of a deal (heck a 150% character fighting a 100% character in RQG has better odds than a 300% character fighting a 100% character in RQ3). 

Then RQG went back to %over 100 reducing opponents, but left all the RQ3 magic as it was, an even added sword trance for humakti... All this stuff males RAW painful to play if you care about fun combat tbh.

4 minutes ago, Martin Dick said:

why do you need to do clever play if you have a stacked character sheet and can just bulldoze your way through the opposition.

Because you are playing RuneQuest and understand math?

14 hours ago, Jeff said:

But to the RQ design team, these cults have the spells and abilities they should have.

I'm curious, why did you guys add runelords to babeester gor? 

They (and humakti) are pretty much unstoppable in melee due to the trance spells (this is new to this edition, since the Big % boosts were not nearly as good back in RQ3). 

Is this intended? Am i to believe that the average stormbull or orlanthi just gets murdered if they try to fight a cultist with trance? This is very different than the Glorantha we used to play in!

14 hours ago, Jeff said:

I don't think any player I have gamed with ever picked a cult because they were trying to figure out which was most effective

I don't know what to tell you, i don't think thats the problem, but a byproduct. Let me try to explain how i feel about this:

Lets say we are playing a supers game.

The characters are Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Lois Lane, Green Arrow, Comisioner Gordon, and a teen that works at mcdonald's (he has no powers).

You say that playing teen that works at mcdonald's (he has no other powers). And i'm not arguing that, what's fun is fun, it would be like arguing if red is better than blue.

Some people will find the teen not fun. Others will find Lois and Gordon (and even Green Arrow) too underpowered. Some others will spend hours trying to figure out if Batman or Superman is the best.

Again, fun is relative, and where we draw the line is subjective.

11 hours ago, Dissolv said:

One group I GM has a Humakt duck, who is probably hands down the most powerful in combat (if his Rune points hold out), but when push comes to shove the group prefers mass buffing a Storm Bull

Because it doesnt matter how powerful the duck actually is, he relies on a gimick (Sword trance), a clearly broken runespell that literally trivializes the whole character sheet.

Duck vs duck? 95% to hit, <1% to be hit

Duck vs human? 95% to hit, <1% to be hit

Duck vs allosaur? 95% to hit, <1% to be hit

The only viable counterplay is dismiss magic, and the dismiss magic meta is awful.

11 hours ago, Dissolv said:

It is the clever players who work the scenario and the campaign to avoid such events, (or be on the right side of them!) as much as possible, who thrive.  Even in combat, clever play is vastly superior to a stacked character sheet. 

This is faulty logic, akin to "My adventurer doesnt need social skills because i'm charming and can convince the GM".

You know what's better than clever play? Clever play with a stacked character sheet.

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

The Zebra Rider with a strong Fire Rune and a strong Man Rune got to chose between Yelmalio ("that's the god of Light in the Darkness") or Pavis, and picked Yelmalio ("I don't want to be confined to one city!").

"Even yelmalio looks good if you compare him to pavis!"

18 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

He's clearly NOT the premier god for the best phalangites in Glorantha. 

Ackshually... The best phalangites are the agimori (regarded as the very best infantry in the whole glorantha according to borderlands & beyond)

Just now, French Desperate WindChild said:

 Reread my post, I just said it is not a rule issue.

There are several persons saying it is Indeed a rules issue -or at least a game text issue- so if you say that you would need to explain why!