Questbird

Congratulations Newt on reaching your Kickstarter goal! I am looking forward to seeing River of Heaven. I really liked Cthulhu Rising by John Ossoway (and the Savage North, come to that -- I am currently running it in my campaign.)

Good job.

In practice, I must admit I haven't used my 'minor parry' rule (see above in this thread) as much as I thought I would. It's been too much hassle. I prefer even more simplicity. Here's how I do it, and this does work fine:

Any time you get a critical parry you can riposte with a secondary weapon or a shield (you can even throw a punch with your off-hand if you are feeling lucky). The riposte can be dodged or parried with the attacker's off-hand weapon or shield only.

If you don't have a secondary weapon (or fist) or shield, or you are using a two handed weapon, bad luck.

And here's what I'd like to do:

A critical parry vs. a failed (ie. missed) attack allows a riposte which can't be dodged or parried.

A normally successful parry vs. a failed attack has no special effect, but doesn't count for the cumulative penalty for successive dodges/parries.

In short: a critical parry gives you a riposte with your off-hand.

I bought the PDF a few weeks back. I'm really impressed with it. It looks like it would be relatively easy to make characters for and play. I like the pictures for all the races. The whole thing is overflowing with adventure hooks. Great work! (I've ordered a physical copy from Chaosium too).

I was happy with funding OpenQuest2, and now I've happily thrown a few coins into the pot for this one too.

I think BRP would be a great system for Hârn. You could use Cthulhu: Dark Ages for inspiration, or Mythic Iceland (for the Ivinians), or Crusaders of the Amber Coast (for knights). I've also used Maelstrom (which is makes being a Grocer or a Laborer actually playable to some extent, and the magic system is perfect for Hârn and low-fantasy settings) and Dragon Warriors, both British games from the 1980s.

I put my vote in for BRP too.

It is an interesting idea and does occasionally bubble up.

Afterwards you could have a table for lingering effects if you wished.

The problem with all these is the difficulty of bringing down high HP/AP creatures because you can't nibble them to death. It's not so bad in RQ6/Legend because you have special effects to bring down the bad guys instead.

I think Ray Turney was comfortable with that side-effect for his game. He figured that combat with huge creatures was a rare enough event in his campaign that he could live with the consequences.

Most times when my characters have faced huge creatures there *have been* fatalities; they are tough to kill even with the normal hit point system. However if you think about fantastic literature (eg. hercules, gilgamesh, siegfried etc.), heroes rarely kill huge creatures by nicking them to death over a long period, but by mighty blows or by exploiting their special weaknesses with cunning.

Questbird's idea is different in that, since the resilience roll has only two possible outcomes (OK and KO) and the medical condition of a character that has been taken out of the fight is determined after the fight has ended (an interesting idea, imo) indipendently from the amount of damage inflicted by the attack(s), it uses random damage to express the difference between a normally, a specially and a critically successful attack. As an alternative, one might perhaps use three fixed ratings: (maximum damage)*0.5 for a success, maximum damage for a special success, and (maximum damage)*1.5 for a special success. From one of these ratings one would subtract the armor's maximum protection and pit double the difference against the defender's resilience on the resistance table.

I'm not opposed to maths, but I would handle criticals this way: when resisting vs. a Critical hit the roll is Difficult ie. half chance. Don't double the weapon damage, since it's already being doubled to get a usable number for this system. That keeps the numbers on the human side in the middle of the Resistance table and stops criticals from being irresistable. Impales still ignore armour though. This also means that a critical has more chance of causing a major wound.

Why rolling the damage ? This increases the nr of rolls. There is no need for 2 random rolls to simulate the uncertainty of combat. I would suggest to have a fixed damage for a weapon (2x average), add a fixed damage bonus (idem)- substract armour and roll vs. resillience.

e.g. Bog the big troll, maul 18 (2D8), damage bonus 14 (2D6), total 32.

Uzuor the thane, broad sword 11 (1d8+1), damage bonus 5 (1d4), total 16.

You may like to adapt the numbers, but this is the idea.

Fire and Sword does go down this route: there's still a roll but all weapons do about the same damage and armour protects a fixed amount. The reason I went with damage rolling is to make the minimum changes required for the system to work, without making all the weapons and armour tables invalid etc. It makes the GM's job harder, because the rulebooks can't be referred to by players accurately anymore. But the average fixed damage is a good idea.

The other reason for using rolled damage as the resisting attribute is that you can then easily apply the system for any other (non-combat) form of damage eg. fire, falling, acid or whatever crazy spot rules you have in your game, once again without having to rewrite every second rule related to damage.

For quite some time some of the ideas behind Ray Turney's Fire and Sword have been circulating in my head. One of those is hitpoint-less combat. Here's a stab at that system for BRP or its variants, which can be slotted in without completely wrecking everything.

Why hitpointless?

This is not going to be an exciting idea for the ultra simulationists or people who love hit locations. Hitpoints are an abstraction, and I'm suggesting replacing them with another abstraction.

Here's what Ray had to say about it in his excellent design notes for his game:

The first significant innovation in the combat rules is the replacement of hit points by rolling a die to see if a blow incapacitates a character. This change happened because I noticed that hit points were a real drag on game play. When a player is writing down that his character has lost hit points, he or she is not paying attention to the game. Also, the only result of recording lost hit points is to bring the character’s death closer. Since the player rarely wants this, the tendency is not to write down the loss of hit points. Thirty minutes later, the GM remembers that he has hit character before, but the player has a tendency to forget. So a quick means of determining results that don’t need to be recorded seemed necessary. Hit points do have two advantages over rolling to see to see whether blows incapacitate a character. They allow for death by slow attrition, rather than by a single blow. Since death by slow attrition was a rare event in RuneQuest, I decided I could live with the elimination of this possibility.

I would add that tracking hitpoints for NPCs in a big fight can be a pain too; better to know: are they still fighting or not? (note that this system is not the same as morale) For similar reasons I don't care to know whether this NPC or that is bleeding or has a major wound which will take him down in 4 rounds etc.

Overview

When a combatant is wounded, instead of tracking hitpoints, the character makes a resistance roll of Resilience (see below) vs. twice the weapon damage, after armour has been subtracted. If he fails, he is incapacitated for the rest of the fight. At the end of the fight the character will be in one of several wound states based on a CON check.

Resilience

Average of CON, SIZ, POW (or alternatively: (hitpoints + POW) / 3)

a successful check vs. a greater damage gets you a check to increase POW at the end of the session. Justification: POW has no upper limit in humans. Willpower to survive can increase from a near-death experience.

Resilience Check

Roll on the Resistance table: Resilience vs twice damage taken (adjusted for armor). A roll of 01-05 for named characters only is always successful. Success means keep fighting, failure means they are out of the fight at the end of the current combat round. A critical failure (a failure where units die ends in 0 or 5) indicates a major wound. A fumble always fails.

Critical hits

Critical hits do not double damage. Instead, a Resilience check vs. a Critical hit is Difficult (half chance).

Works for weapons too

A critical parry vs attack success or critical attack vs. normal parry means weapon must resist vs. damage or be destroyed. Use weapon hitpoints for resilience. Justification: Ditto above for keeping track of weapon hit points. I just want to know, did your sword break or didn't it?

How injured are you?

At the end of the fight, make a CONx5 check:

+ critical success (success with 0 or 5 on the units die) - Healthy (knocked out by pain only)

+ success - Walking Wounded

+ failure - Badly Wounded

+ critical failure (failure with 0 or 5 on the units die) - Dying

+ fumble - Dead

Medical conditions

Healthy

Character is in good shape

Walking Wounded

Character functions normally except that odd die rolls are reduced one success level, for all skill rolls except lore and communication skills. When a recovery roll is announced, make even die roll below or equal to CONx5 and the character gets better. Odd die roll above CONx5 and the character deteriorates to Badly Wounded/Out of It.

Badly Wounded

Character cannot walk unassisted or use skills. When a recovery roll is called for, make even die roll less than or equal to CONx5, and the character becomes Walking Wounded. On Odd failures the character’s state becomes Dying

Dying

Like Badly Wounded, except that a decline will be to Dead, and an increase will be to Badly Wounded

Dead

Cannot breathe, move, think, or fight. Once dead, you stop getting CON rolls to get better. Also, unless it is specifically stated in the spell description that a healing spell affects dead characters, it has no effect.

Getting better (or worse)

Recovery Roll

Make a CONx5 roll

even success - you get better by one level

odd failure - you get worse by one level

any other result - you stay the same.

when you roll

+ at the end of the episode when you got wounded

+ each day thereafter

+ if you receive a successful Physick or First Aid roll from another player (doesn't work on dead characters) up to once per day. A critical Physick gives you two rolls. With a successful Physick you can ignore the bad results. A fumbled Physick means you roll and ignore the *good* results.

Worked example

I have one, but the post might be getting too long as it is. Oh what the heck, if you've read this far. If you haven't, skip to TL; DR below.

A Marine faces Pirates on the deck of a burning ship.

Marine (from Elric! p.112

STR 13 DEX 11 CON 14 SIZ 13 POW 9 Resilience 12

Sea Axe (2H) 50% 2D6+2+1D4, Dodge 50%

Sea Leather and helm 1D6

Pirates (from Elric! p112)

STR 12 DEX 13 CON 13 SIZ 12 POW 10 Resilience 12

Cutlass 45% 1D6+2

Dagger 40% 1D4+2

Dodge 26%

no armor

First the marine encounters one pirate

Round 1. Pirate hits, marine fails to parry

Marine hits pirate (no parry): he does 13 points with his sea axe

13 x 2 = 26, vs. resilience 12: the pirate has no chance. He goes down screaming

Two more pirates leap forward

round 1. One of the pirates grazes the marine for 1 point of damage

1 x 2 = 2 vs. resilience 12: automatic success for the marine, who laughs loudly

round 2. the opponents jab at each other ineffectively

round 3. pirate 1 hits the marine for 3 points through his sea leather

3 x 2 = 6 vs. resilience 12: marine has 80% but he rolls 87. He will go down at the end of the round but at least its not a major wound

The second pirate also hits for 4 more points after armour

4 x 2 = 8 vs. 12: 70%; this one the marine succeeds with 60, but it won't help him. He gets his last attack, but misses.

Fortunately the marine's buddies arrive and deal with the pirates. After the fight, the marine makes a CONx5 check (70%) and rolls 80. Oh no, it's not his battle. He is Dying from his wounds. Since the pirates have been defeated though it's the end of the episode so he can have another CONx5 check. He rolls 59, a success but an odd number, so he hangs on to life by a thread as his ship heads for home.

Of course, this is a bit different from the outcome with hitpoints (the marine would have lost 8/14 points but would still be standing), but the marine was pretty unlucky.

OK over to the BRP central crew.

TL; DR

Scrap hitpoints. Use a roll to resist damage: fail and you go down -- but you might not be dead. You could be anything from fine to dead; you find out after the fight.

Are they in line with the rules in BRP, or something else (like a whole system?

Thanks.

They are their own system, vaguely reminiscent of the old Traveller psionics rules. There are different types of psionics (eg. precognitives, telepaths etc.) with different power levels. The power level gives a psionic access to certain powers within their discipline. A psionic has skill in each power separately and they improve likewise.

John Ossoway's Cthulhu Rising has some good rules for psionics. One of my players played a precognitive space navigator and starship pilot using those rules.

When I ran Legend I noticed how much this really affected dwarfs, especially since I had a mixed dwarf-elf player group and combined with move penalties, the dwarfs kept arriving in their plate after the elfs had killed all the orcs..

Although in Classic Fantasy, dwarfs can cope with more ENC -- so using Mankcam's formula might work better here. You could also use the Encumbrance category from Classic fantasy (p.12):

DEX Order Penalty = 1 per encumbrance level above Unloaded

[TABLE]

[TR][TD]Encumbrance category[/TD][TD]ENC[/TD][TD]DEX order penalty[/TD][/TR]

[TR][TD]Unloaded[/TD][TD]0.5xSTR[/TD][TD]0[/TD][/TR]

[TR][TD]Light[/TD][TD]1xSTR[/TD][TD]1[/TD][/TR]

[TR][TD]Moderate[/TD][TD]1.5xSTR[/TD][TD]2[/TD][/TR]

[TR][TD]Heavy[/TD][TD]2xSTR[/TD][TD]3[/TD][/TR]

[TR][TD]Extreme[/TD][TD]2.5xSTR[/TD][TD]4[/TD][/TR]

[TR][TD]Maximum[/TD][TD]3xSTR[/TD][TD]5[/TD][/TR]

[/TABLE]

There was a thread like this not too long ago: http://basicroleplaying.com/showthread.php/2882-BRP-on-Hârn-which-magic-system-to-use?

I recommended using the Maelstrom magic system (which I summarised there) for Hârn because it is very subtle -- it's not usually clear whether magic has been used at all. Good for a low-magic setting. It also has no fixed spells and relies a lot on situational roleplaying from the spell caster.

I have played Maelstrom in Hârn on a few occasions, quite successfully.

I just wanted to reply to this thread, old as it is, to say that I really enjoyed reading Fire and Sword and its desgn notes. Several of its ideas are fulminating around my head and are likely to or have already made their way into my own games.

1. Fame, status and favors

2. The hitpointless 'incapacitate' roll

3. The 2d6 improvement rolls to encourage general skill improvement (to counter the general 'adventurer' skillset convergence)

4. The living expenses rules which reduce in game bookkeeping

Thanks Ray for a great variation on the d100 family (Fire and Sword even dares to dump that!)

We.....eeelll. I recently went through a long exercise to reprint the game from components redesigned on Boardgame Geek. That went well. The game is quite interesting in that it allows a lot of freedom of action...for a boardgame. You can play co-operatively or not with other characters, you can hire the locals as well as trade with them. And the magic system as I've noted is quite singular. But on the downside, the rules are *very* convolutedly written (more so than necessary IMHO) and, ultimately it's a very open-ended boardgame but not a role-playing game. Some people still love the game, although it's been out of print for years. I prefer rpgs, and I don't mind stealing the interesting bits, like the 'colours' of magic.

Thanks for showing interest. I would probably start by classifying existing spell lists; Elric! RQ3 or the Big Gold Book are the sources I have to hand. Since the Big Gold Book is the only one in print, I could start there. In my own campaign I often use Rolemaster's Spell Law. I didn't list the spells from the original game, because they are mostly specific to that, but some of them would give me a clue about how to classify similar spells.

(Later)

OK, this didn't take too long. Here's the Big Gold Book spells classified by colour and type according to this system. It's a first cut, you may not agree with the classifications but it is a demonstration.

Big Gold Book sorcery spells (p.129) classified for Magic Realm colour and type

Each of the 'types' of magic could be a separate skill:

1. Type I Righteous invocations (white)
2. Type II Pagan rites (grey)
3. Type III Elvish lore (gold)
4. Type IV Energy-binding alchemy (purple)
5. Type V Diabolic ceremonies (black)
6. Type VI Conjuring techniques
7. Type VII Good luck knacks
8. Type VIII Malicious tricks

Additionally each 'colour' of magic would have a skill associated with chanelling it and storing it for magical use

+ White - Power from On High, working beneficient magic
+ Grey - Natural Laws, controlling nature
+ Gold - Woods Sprites, working elvish magic
+ Purple - Elemental Energies, twisting and reshaping reality
+ Black -Demonic power, working infernal magic

You might therefore have the skill to use a particular type of magic eg. Pagan Rites, but not necessarily the skill to channel the appropriate colour magic for your spell; you would have to rely on naturally occurring phases of the right colour, magical apparatus or perhaps the activity of other sorcerers to create the right conditions.

With the combination of the magic skill types, the classified BRP spells, and the magic colour channelling skills you could construct a range of different types of spell casters.

I might be in the minority here but...I always liked the Elric/BRP rules, minus the Elric stuff.

I agree. I still run my Elric! game and love it -- but I don't use the Young Kingdoms setting stuff. I may yet buy Magic World, or recommend it to new players who can no longer get their own copies of Elric. For me the clincher is a complete set of rules which fits in one slim volume. The BGB is just too fat for my tastes. Admittedly I do tend to have several other books floating around my game table, but I do appreciate a small, useable rulebook.

Warlords of Alexander is available for download here at BRP central. I'm not sure if Spartans are in there explicitly but it's in roughly the right time and space...

Sounds like an epub (ebook) format would be more appropriate than pdf if want you want is functionality, searchability and readability (ie. rules reference rather than pretty pretty). I wish rpg writers would consider epub format more carefully when they publish (no doubt read other threads for more argument on this). I find my little ereader gets used more and more at my gaming table. It's a small one and less obtrusive than a pile of rulebooks, though pdfs are a bit of a pain to read on it. I do find the BGB a bit *too* weighty a tome, considering I only use half its options for any particular game, so jp42 I understand your desire for a slimmer volume.

I guess it's always a vexed question how much a life is worth. I suppose the murdered person's family would value it higher than the murderer. The weregeld system was just a way to reduce vendettas.

Is there a sample pricing scheme for how much to ransom a person based on status? I believe that MRQ1 had a table with that in the core book. I can't seem to find one in the rules for Runequest 6. If there isn't a table for that in RQ6, what do people recommended as guidelines for setting an amount?

Not sure about the Mongoose one, but RQ3 has a weregeld and ransom guideline. On p.166 of the paperback RQ3 book it recommends a life price of annual income x7.

It also has this table:

Standard Weregelds Table

[table]

[tr][th]yearly income in pennies[/th][th]weregeld in pennies[/th][th]weregeld in cattle[/th][/tr]

[tr][td]360 (begggar)[/td][td]2520[/td][td]10[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]1440 (landed peasant)[/td][td]10000[/td][td]40[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]6000 (master crafter, knight)[/td][td]40000[/td][td]160[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]24,000 (counts, earls)[/td][td]160,000[/td][td]640[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]90,000 (dukes, high priests)[/td][td]640,000[/td][td]2,560[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]365,000 (archdukes)[/td][td]2,560,000[/td][td]none[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]1,440,000 (king)[/td][td]10,240,000[/td][td]none[/td][/tr]

[/table]

Magic Realm was a sprawling fantasy boardgame by Avalon Hill from the 1980s. It had many innovations for its time including an elaborate magic system which is of some interest (to me at least and anyone else interested in tinkering with BRP magic systems). Here's a summary of the system and how it might work for BRP.

Magic Realm magic system

Summary

Magic is energised by 5 different colours, which are present at certain places and times. Each spell is one of eight types, and each uses a particular colour. Spellcasters need access to the right colour before they can cast a spell. This system allows instantaneous casting of spells only with some forethought, preparation or serendipity. Magic use becomes more planned, more strategic by necessity. This system is useful for lower-magic campaigns, or at least to add a planning side to a high-magic campaign.

5 Colours of magic

There are 5 'colours' of magical energy, which each 'power' a certain kind of magic

+ White - Power from On High, working beneficient magic

+ Grey - Natural Laws, controlling nature

+ Gold - Woods Sprites, working elvish magic

+ Purple - Elemental Energies, twisting and reshaping reality

+ Black -Demonic power, working infernal magic

Sources of colour magic

Time

Certain days are energised with magic (assuming a 28 day lunar cycle; for a 30 day month just use 7, 15, 22, 30)

+ 7th day of month - White or Black magic, alternating monthly

+ 14th day of month - Grey

+ 21st day of month- Gold

+ 28th day of month - Purple

Place

Certain places are naturally energised with different colours of magic, eg. temples, stone circles, places of power. All spell casters in the area can use the colour for their spells. Places can also be temporarily enchanted by spellcasters (see Enchantment below).

Enchanted items

Enchanted items pulse with a particular colour of magic, energising a locality with that colour. All spell casters near the item can use the colour for their spells

Enchantment

Spellcasters can energise their own magical materials with the appropriate colour for their own spells.

4 hours preparation time

followed by

4 hours + 1 MP to enchant materials with colour for one spell

8 hours + 5 MP to enchant an area with a colour -- supplies all spells of that colour in the area

MP remain committed (cannot be regenerated) until the colour is used to activate a spell

8 types of magic

There are several types of magic, a little similar to schools or some such, but encompassing different magical traditions (a bit like spirit magic vs. divine magic in Runequest). Each type of magic is learned by a spell caster as a separate skill. The first five types are strongly associated with the colours of magic. Each type contains several spells (not listed here, but you can imagine them). Each spell uses a particular colour (or occasionally any colour) to energise it.

1. Type I Righteous invocations (white)

2. Type II Pagan rites (grey)

3. Type III Elvish lore (gold)

4. Type IV Energy-binding alchemy (purple)

5. Type V Diabolic ceremonies (black)

6. Type VI Conjuring techniques

7. Type VII Good luck knacks

8. Type VIII Malicious tricks

Casting spells

Casting a spell requires the correct colour of magic be present. Each spell requires a colour to cast, usually but not always the colour associated with its type. Some spells can be cast with any colour. Casting time is normal ie. 1 combat round is typical.

Magic points spent are committed (cannot be regenerated) until the spell expires. This could be instantly for a combat spell, or longer for a day spell or permanent spell.

Permanent spells have an effect while their colour is present; they become dormant at other times.

Hmmm, I remember reading it long ago, but I don't remember much from it... In fact I just looked and found it sitting here on my hard drive. I will definitely dive back in and give it another read.

Edit: Looking at the table of contents I'm betting I read it for the Politics section. I may not have even looked at combat.

I picked it up for the same reason, but the Economics (characters have a base standard of living and don't have to track every minor expenditure) and hitpointless combat are also very interesting.

Long ago, on a website by an individual who's place and name are lost in the sands of the time corridors, I read an article suggesting that damage should be set to 1d6 across the board and that combat should be varied based on skill and weapon length (and slash/crush/impale or something along those lines).

Ray Turney's Fire and Sword rules, available here at BRP central, have all 1-handed weapons doing 1d10 and all 2-handed ones 1d10+2. Length makes a difference for strike order, and probably something like your Brawn or damage bonus. That game also has no hit points at all. (It's got a few interesting ideas like that, mostly to do with reducing in-game bookkeeping; worth a look).