Austin

About two years ago, I tried to sit down & actually figure out how in the world my group's sorcery rules worked. After all, I'd played a sorcerer using them for two to three years at that point, and had a friend who had been using them for about a year as well (and who I helped teach the system). How hard could it be?

Very, very hard, it turned out. Our current group plays mostly-RQG, but we've taken to calling that game's rules "RuneQuest Bastard" for a reason. They were a mishmash of official stuff, house rules, and things my friends & I didn't know were house rules which had accumulated from about a decade of play through our GM friend's teen years. Loads of fun, but very much an "oral" rulebook.

I never did finish that project to write up the sorcery system, and recently I've come to the conclusion that I'll never finish the stupid thing despite the amount of work I'd put in. I'd intended to upload it here from the start so others could see how we did things, and since I've accepted I'll never finish it, I figured I may as well go ahead and upload it anyway. I suspect that, to play it, you'll need to be the same certain special breed of masochist my friends and I are, but I hope that it will at least be interesting for someone.

Scholastic Sorcery is an awful Frankenstein's Monster mishmash of the sorcery in RQ3's "Magic Book", Sandy Petersen's Western Sorcery, and his Tekumel Sorcery. It overlays the Tsolyanu of Tekumel as Patrons of Sorcery within Glorantha, organized into two general canons: the Saints of Stability, and the Demons of Change. As the introduction notes, most of the mechanics are not my ideas, but a fair bit of the fluff is. A lot of my work was editorial, trying to organize and make sense of multiple rulesets I initially believed were compatible, and later discovered are not. An example of this is that RQ3 (and SS) treats the Duration Art as a skill, whereas Petersen's Western Sorcery, which provides the core ruleset of SS, has no concept of using both Presence and Duration. Scholastic Sorcery works well as a ruleset for adventurers. Our game was pretty murderhobo, and the rules do reflect that. It treats sorcerers as being individualists; they're organized into colleges and schools and whatnot, but are ultimately not as community-minded as other magic systems.

For current players of RQG, I think the spell writeups (which are about the last fifty pages of the document) will be of most use. I don't think they'll translate directly into RQG's sorcery, but the Tekumel spells provide a great example of cool flavorful sorcery spells which go beyond what both Rune magic and spirit magic tend to do, both in power and complexity. The spells are incomplete (I got to the start of the P's alphabetically), but what's there should, I hope, be interesting. You can find the rest of Petersen's RuneQuest Tekumel stuff on the tekumel.com site here.

For people interested in the rules themselves, I beg forgiveness! This was the first time I attempted writing game rules, and I feel they're still rather haphazard. Having re-skimmed the document, examples use rules found later in the text and the organization of material's kind of a mess. Apart from the writing, the rules themselves really need more chopping at to be cleaned up and tidied. The stitches on my Monster show all over the place. But the rules portion is basically complete, albeit in a first-draft form.

I have ideas for a similar sorcery system for RQG, using the Runes and Techniques of RQG's sorcery as the basis, and introducing skill and manipulation because I frankly can't stand Free INT rules. But if I ever do write that up, it'll probably not be soon. If you wanted to play a Scholastic Sorcerer in RQG, I'd loosely suggest starting with the Philosopher occupation, and base the starting point for Arts and Vows on the Student tier, replacing the adventurer's cult. I make no claims that any of that procedure--or use of Scholastic Sorcery in general--will create a Fun and Balanced play environment in an RQG game.

My only true regret is that I never got to fumble and TPK my party with a Doomkill.

Scholastic Sorcery Spell List.doc Scholastic Sorcery.doc

7 hours ago, BrentS said:

If it doesn't break the game and make us all decide to give up and find an RPG about singing, I'll let you know. 🙂

You better!

22 hours ago, Puckohue said:

Being "confined to the Spirit World" sounds to me like they can't see the Middle World, as the Spirit World is separate. So how would the shaman know when or where to cast visibility?

In my Glorantha, there's a notion of being "near" the Middle World, and being fully within the Spirit World. Shamans can see stuff going on which is near the Middle World, but don't see the full-blown Spirit World in their day-to-day lives. The Spirit World is a strange and weird place which they can go to, but they aren't just staring at it all the time. I treat Discorporation as like being ethereal in D&D, unless a shaman's explicitly traveling to the Spirit World, or if the Discorporate entity finds a Spirit Vortex to pass through and visit it themselves.

24 minutes ago, Redjac said:

Pardon me if this has been brought it before.

Yep, it's a known error in the core rulebook.  Rune Fixes #1 addresses it, available here. It's also discussed with other game errata and questions over on the Well of Daliath.

Edit addition: In general, a good rule of thumb is that unless otherwise stated, a spirit's Spirit Combat skill is its POW×5%. 

5 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

It's been clarified that you get the POW not from defeating Disease Spirits in general, but from being possessed by one and managing to evict it.

I haven't seen that clarification, and I'm not seeing something along those lines on the Well. Could you point me its way? Thanks!

13 hours ago, soltakss said:

And we eagerly await your recollections and stories of what it was like in the beginning. Please post as many of those as you can.

Seconded!

14 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

You can decide to not feel overwhelmed by "all that needs to happen" or "all the authenticity that I need to infuse in my campaign". The authentic Glorantha will be whatever happens during your games.

Agreed. However, I didn't read Charloix's comments as being about "getting it right," but rather authenticity in the sense of "feeling real." Sort of like how, if you're reading a novel and you already know the twist, the experience of reading it is different than if you've not been spoiled on it. If you don't know the Cradle's supposed to happen in 1621, then you experience a different sort of sense of wonder when an enormous Cradle floats down the river.

That doesn't mean, of course, that if you know the general story of the Hero Wars that there's no point of playing it, or that your experience is lessened. God knows I have some books I return to every few years because I just love those stories. It's not a lessened or "wrong" experience, just a different one. But at the same time, you can't really just "forget" part of a story and re-experience it anew.

On 6/16/2020 at 7:45 AM, Runeblogger said:

The strongest troll drinks could be useful to humans as cleaning agents, vermin poison and herbicides.

In my game, a troll merchant visited Pavis. He just came from the Rubble, so nothing super exotic like the cool Vale of Flowers ideas noted above, but some weird stuff. One of which was "Hinglidarn's Famous Bowel Cleanser" at ~500L for a sip, along with signing a release that you won't seek revenge (or your family won't seek revenge). It gave a CON Gain check (like a POW Gain check), which, if you failed, dealt a bunch of damage and lowered CON instead.

The group's Issaries merchant was definitely intrigued by Hinglidarn's offer of pack beetles, but ended up not buying one. He also sold shroomwine as a trade good. Trollkin slaves could be another option to buy (though I'm not sure people in other campaigns would have the same attachments to the little bastards).

I imagine that Giants might be interested in armored footwear, the better for stepping on houses with (as I recall, there's a picture of Alone showing houses with large stakes rising from the top to dissuade giants). Probably layered leather, rather than metal, unless magic's involved.

Another option for sale to trolls which I don't think was mentioned would be dairy products. Cheese stays fairly well, trolls don't have patience to make it from traded herd beasts, and it provides a different, delicious taste. It's more value-dense for weight/volume than bread products would be, too.

Other luxury options could be cultural or art goods. I imagine the trolls make interesting drumming stones, good for music, and a reed flute might be interesting to them as both a musical instrument and as a snack.

Giant labor sounds to me like what would be most in demand from them. You could do years of building in days, with a giant to lift the stones. Of course, convincing them to help you build a new fort or palace is probably really hard, given their association with Disorder.

18 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

There is also nothing prohibiting you from putting your Personal Skill Bonuses into even MORE new spells. 

This is really key to creating an effective starting sorcerer, IMO.

18 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Remember by RAW, "If the roll fails, then only 1 magic point is lost and the spell has no effect." There is nothing keeping PCs from trying to recast a spell as many times as they want on a day not adventuring. Even starting percentages as low as 25% can allow you to mark every spell every season and have them all up all the time.

FWIW I wouldn't allow an experience check for this as a GM, because you're not casting in a "condition of stress" (RQG 415). But casting during an adventure, when every MP can matter, I probably would.

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Ummmm.... I don't see that as being a thing.

From the Well of Daliath:

Quote

The Fetch (pages 355-357)

What the Fetch Provides the Shaman

Spell Strength vs POW roll

Does a shaman’s fetch’s POW add to theirs for the purposes of a Spell Strength vs POW roll?

Yes. See the top of page 355: “The fetch adds its POW to the shaman’s POW against any contests involving POW VS. POW struggles.”

1 hour ago, CharloixBrooKiller said:

I wonder how Tadashi doing, and how many of the newer players even know that High Tumulas is named after him?

Is there a longer story to tell? I've felt curious about Tada and his people and the Tumulus, but I haven't found much information about it in my reading.

8 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Now we're in the territory of gift-debt instead of coercion.

Sorta like "The Orlanthi don't have slaves" but there's an awful lot of unfree folk running around...

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

They key term is "voluntary". I don't think being mind-controlled satisifies that precondition.

Gah, how dare you read the rulebook!  That's what I get for letting my players munchkin while relying on memory. Your slave exploit's still on the table though.

20 minutes ago, MJ Sadique said:

Good idea but to create an enchantment a slave need to know the spell/ritual and to be able to perform it and then you can command it (with stick and carrot or a dagger under his neck). But Alas, You indeed need to find a cheap Enchanter, someone probably around a hundred silvers but if you buy cheap slave and then teach them during a few years how to do the ritual

You don't need to teach the slave anything. You do the enchantment yourself, and others can contribute POW as they wish (RQG 249). And the enchantment spirit magic spells are dirt cheap.

Apprentices would depend on the shaman tradition. I can't see mainstream Praxians or ancestor-worshipers thinking it's okay, but some Darkness traditions? Absolutely.

23 minutes ago, MJ Sadique said:

You need to deal with the 5POW = 10Cows

Why would 5 POW be worth 10 cows? A cow's worth 20L (or a wheel), so that's only 200L. Per the Rune magic chapter, the rough price to pay for a one-use Rune spell to be cast is 200L (ten times the default price per point, 20L). That's the only "lunars per POW" approximation I know of.

12 minutes ago, Joerg said:

"Wind Words guide to cattle raiding"

That's definitely something I'd pick up on the JC .

My intent wasn't to say that I felt your take on cattle raiding was flawed or incomplete, but rather that RQG doesn't currently have the tools to play 17/18 year old new adults on their first raid.

1 minute ago, Thaz said:

<awaits hard copy of PP with increasing excitement>

*Eurmal intensifies*

39 minutes ago, MJ Sadique said:

Let's your shaman meet the "Grenade Chaman" : A man who always have some relaxations stones in hands ... and the moment he feel secure, let him see the power of Spell barage of Fire rain (fire-arrow x4 : 12D6); And the moment you rolls the dice (secretly), tell him "oh oh oh critical roll, only 1PM cost for so much firepower..." don't tell the spell name nor the cost, only ROLL YOUR 12D6... 1MP for 12D6, anyone will be afraid !

 I enjoyed this little trick from over in the current shaman thread, although I suspect most GMs would impose penalties for trying to hit the same person with multiple rocks. Scary as hell at point-blank range. Doesn't necessarily need to be a shaman, with Multispell, even if that's the example used.

17 minutes ago, soltakss said:

That's why I house rule that Cult special spirit Magic is not commonly available to Shamans.

This is a challenge I came up against recently myself. In playing one of Chaosium's recently published adventures, the party came up against ghosts which know Sleep, and those which beat the ghosts in spirit combat chose it as their free stolen spell for victory. The adventure is

25 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Honestly, Sleep should be a Rune spell in the new system. With shamans being able to easily learn any Spirit Magic and then teach it, the idea of secret cult-specific Spirit Magic is risible

I'd personally be cool with Sleep being a 1-point Rune spell restricted to followers of Chalana Arroy. Overpowered still, maybe, but Chalana restrictions are perfectly adequate. If I ever do a hard reset on our game, I may introduce that as a house rule.

44 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I agree about this interpretation, but it’s pretty obscenely powerful and I strongly doubt it was playtested at any higher power level.

On a related note, a complaint from one of my friends (who plays RQ and is more experienced w/ it than me, but with which I haven't been able to play anymore due to schedules) about the new rules is that shamans in particular, and sorcerers to some extent, can scale infinitely, whereas Rune magic is capped by the adventurer's CHA. Definitely something that only pops up at high-power play, but relevant.

On the other hand, you can still continue scaling via saccing POW into enchantments—in particular, Rune magic matrices—but it's not quite on the same power scale as a shaman's growing fetch.

1 minute ago, Akhôrahil said:

This just part of a wider problem - can you buy slaves and force them to sacrifice POW for your project through a mix of punishments and rewards? Slaves aren't that expensive, and it's a pretty solid deal for a slave to be offered his or her freedom for a sacrifice of, say, 5 POW (for optimization, buy the cheapest slaves you can find - you don't care about their ability to work, after all).  

(And this is the kind of munchkinnery that this thread is about!)

That... is significantly better than what my players came up with. Although, in part their decision to drain a spirit was a creative solution to getting rid of a demon.

Moderately off topic, I'm considering house-ruling that only persons of initiate or higher in the same cult as the enchanter can add POW to an enchantment. Or, that they also need to succeed at the same Rune affinity roll being used. Or both. That doesn't fix spirit magic or sorcery enchantments, though.

Extra persons adding POW is, in my opinion, one of the rules which most quickly leads to exploitation. Depends on how big you can make a Rune magic matrix. I don't think that's been defined, although I remember seeing arguments about whether or not you could make a matrix bigger than you could potentially cast on your own.

On 7/3/2020 at 11:55 AM, jajagappa said:

The Red Goddess is a Duck.

Build a bridge out of her!

13 hours ago, Joerg said:

To learn more, tune in to windwords.fm, and enjoy yet another look at the possibly most played martial experience for young characters in Orlanthi society.

Thanks for the episode . It was a fun listen! It'd be great to have some more support for playing younger/inexperienced adventurers in RQG to interact with these elements. To be fair, though, I haven't gotten to read Six Seasons in Sartar yet.

I also appreciate that you keep highlighting the JC, both others and myself. It's wonderful to see all the great stuff churning out.

On Heortlings, I'm cheered that it had such a positive response. It took a wee bit more than 2 hours to pump out . In case you need fodder for the Rumors table, I do plan to do a follow-up, Nomads of Prax. I don't know exactly when. Putting Heortlings together was more mentally draining than I'd expected, which is part of why the most recent MOTM, Petty Spirits, is on the light side.

On Treasures Vol 1, "storyful" was absolutely my goal! One of my favorite RQ volumes is the Gloranthan Classics book Borderlands & Beyond, and its reprint of Plunder is a heavy inspiration for me. There's also a lot of "DNA" from the D&D 3.5 book Weapons of Legacy, which is also a more flavorful take on magic items. My goal was for Treasures to be, in a way, an introduction to Glorantha's mythology in the same way Plunder was for me when I first read it. Lots of cool magic items, of course, but also a way to introduce random stories in a gaming-friendly way.

If you want another Rumor, I'll share that I'm pretty sure what the theme for Volume 2 will be . I haven't started work on it yet, and I don't plan to for a while, but my brain has started the imaginative groundwork. May be some more information this winter.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned either, but I don't think there's anything preventing an adventurer from using Control/Command spells to force an entity to sacrifice POW into an enchantment they're making. I mean, apart from being a massively evil (and possibly Chaotic?) act. No rules prevention.

The main question is "how long does it take to sacrifice POW?" but that can be circumvented with Control + Spell Extension. (And yeah, I really doubt you could get away with it with a Command Cult Spirit due to y'know, pissing off your god.) 

40 minutes ago, Thaz said:

But hey your table your rules right?

I try to be pretty careful about at least stating whether it's the book's rule or my table's rule when I'm here, but sometimes I just plain can't remember.

Who knows if the rule will change in six months? Not me...

4 hours ago, BrentS said:

My inclination for a simple solution is to halve the weapon skill for purposes of parrying if the player indicated that they would be using that weapon to attack at statement of intent

My understanding was that if you attack with a thing, you can't parry with that thing. I'm happy to assume you know the rules better than I do (especially since my group has a tendency to rely on random houserules and badly-memorized shenanigans), but that's how we've played and it works alright. Two-handed weapons were an exception, because that's how they're meant to be used.

It's worth noting that my players' Humakti has taken to carrying a spare sword, explicitly to use for parrying while under the effects of Sword Trance. It feels weird that the highest HP parrying object currently available for the game is an iron broadsword or kopis (18 HP). At least, as far as I can recall.

I think another important element of the shield & weapon rules, as designed, is that gear is more likely to get damaged in this edition. Shields are comparatively cheap and replaceable. Ostensibly monetary values are lower in this game too, but adventures still seem to give out a substantial amount of loot in my opinion. My group thought weapon-breakage sounded unfun and like an unnecessary layer of complexity, so we haven't been playing with those rules. I can't attest to how they impact play.

6 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The reason why Sky and Earth split was because they needed to "have a moment" after what was clearly quite the lay.

You might even say it shook the heavens and the earth. (Sorry-not-sorry.)

7 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Not like much else helps either. 🙂

Saving all that RP to increase odds of divine intervention? Mostly relevant if you're a Rune Priest rather than Rune Lord, to be fair.

That seems like a great topic for the Munchkins, though: how to defeat a crit headshot? I'll try devoting some thought to it.

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Not much is going to touch you with, say, 84 points of magical armor and 84 points of countermagic...

Except a trollkin's 01 crit for 10 damage to the noggin . In my experience, at least, I'd assume something dumb like that's gonna happen at least once in the course of 5 or 6 adventures.