Kloster

If you've seen Truth & Justice from Atomic Sock Monkey, the author explicitly tries to reproduce these sort of plot-dependent powers. Not to delve too deeply into the rules (what there is of them), every use of power is a roll against that power's rating. So, you can pit Superman's "Kryptonian Physique" +6 against Batman's "Gadgeteer" +6 directly, and the odds would be 50/50; if Supes won, he'd knock Bats for a loop (but not actually drive his fist through Bats' body, as he might in real life); if Bats won, he'd have some secret weapon in his utility belt that hurt Supes for that round.

Very interesting idea.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

...

Morally, I think the system (RQ) SHOULD belong to Steve Perrin, Ray Tourney and the others who wrote the rules. Legally, the RQ name belongs to Greg, BRP belongs to Chaosium, and the rules belong to no one.

...

The RQ rules have been written by Steve Perrin and Ray Turney (and another guy I don't remember the name), but belongs to Chaosium (as they are written). It was a kind of 'work on demand', like the work done by Mike Pondsmith for TSR on Buck Rodgers.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

...

Actually it is that AH doesn't own the lisence. I wish games like DragonQuest and James Bond could get back into print, along with all the other games that TSR/WotC ate up and buried.

...

James Bond has not been killed by WotC, but by AH themselves when they closed Victory Games (along with some wargames).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Yeah, Chaosium made three big bo-boos in the 80s.

1) Selling RQ to Avalon Hill. It was supposed to allow RQ to compete with D&D, but instead priced the game off out of the market, and stopped was was a productive run.

2) Failure to Support WoW. WoW was a great concept, but was half haertedly executed. Much like Land of the Ninja, it has the look of something that Chaosium published, but didn't actually use themselves. If WoW been supported as a universal ERPG, made a bit more compatible with itself (each book uses a different damage bonus), and given setting and other supplements, it could have acheived what GURPS and HERO did.

This would have definately been worth supporting after the AH deal, to give Chasoium a viable in house product line. What they are doing now with BRP is what they should have done 15-20 years ago.

3) Call of Cthulhu. CoC is a niche of a niche (Lovecraftian horror RPG). Fine and dandy, except it was supported to the virtual exclusion of everything else.

1) If I remember well, they had the choice between bankruptcy and selling one of their flagship (RQ or CoC). The goal of competing with D&D by using AH power was an added bonus.

2) Agreed.

3) It is a niche that represented the largest part of their income. It is still now because it is their only product, but even at that time, it was important.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Where exactly do these figures come from? And when? There's a dearth of reliable figures in the industry, so I'm intrigued to know what these numbers actually represent. This is sales in France, correct? Up to what date?

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

The figures were the ones given by the french editors, compiled by a french mag in 2000 (Backstab) for the french editions.

For the english langage ones, it was estimates given by the main importers.

And it was the sales in France only, even if I'm sure that for the french language editions, it was the total sales made by the editor for all french speaking countries (Jeux Descartes for CoC, Oriflam for all the others).

I also remember an aticle by MOB in an old TotrM where he reviewed the french RQ and explained that the Oriflam sales for France were in the same league as the ones of AH worldwide, but I've never checked that.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Interesting.

Your figures seem to show not only how important it is to provide the game in the local language (no surprise), but just how useful a literary tie in is.

No surprise! :thumb:

It is also because, except for CoC, they were nicer and much cheaper than US or UK ones. Best example was RQIII (Between 450 and 550 FF for AH version, 249 FF for Oriflam french one).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Well, since the copywrite laws specifically note that you cannot copywrite a rules system, OGL is completely unnecessary.

But, yeah, big companies can throw money around and destroy small compnies with legal action. It a lot like being drafted into a poker game, where he other guy can make your bets for you.

Problem is, OGL is no protection. If WotC, or better yet Hasbro, wanted to, they could sue someone over a d20 product. While they probably wouldn't win the case, the cost in legal fees would be enough to shut down most RPG companies.

In not a case of wring and wrong, its a case of how much can you afford to be right?

In the gaming industry, probably only Mattel can rival Hasbro/WotC on the legal/financial level (really the same), and Mattel is not manufacturing RPG.

If they could buy Chaosium, perhaps they could withstand going legal vs WotC.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

What does 30 represent? 30 games, 30000 games or something else?

All these posts bring back memories of playing V&V, Champions and SuperWorld. I definitely would like to give a superhero resource a try for BRP once it comes out. I guess I'll have to wait till that happens, though. I would hope Chaosium is looking into this genre plus others for future expansions/supplements.

30 means 30 games. CoC was over 80000 games.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

But OGL isn't floating the boat either. WotC isn't making money from OGL stuff. The adnatage of OGL is that it gives WotC market control over the system, and allows them to sell the core rule books to 85% of the RPG market.

Those 85% is giving money to Hasbro/WotC. Probably more money than the total size of all the world rpg industry outside of WotC combined.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Well, the truth was, the OGL was _never_ needed; GORE style reverse engineering was always possible, and very hard to potentially control. What the OGL and to a lesser degree the D20 license said was "We're saying outright if you produce product for this we won't try to take you to court." In a world where, as F. Lee Bailey said, "The power to indict is the power to destroy" (i.e. just going to court can destroy you whether you win or lose) that was non-trivial.

In addition to that, IP laws in non US countries is completely different, and if different words are used, it is VERY difficult to prevent usage of ideas.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I'd love a setting book inspired by fantasy China - the wuxia genre has been dabbled with before in RPGs but never really given the user-friendly treatment that BRP could bring to it.

There is so much untapped potential in this field from what little I have read and the recent films that have made it big in the West (e.g. Crouching Tiger; House of The Flying Daggers; Hero; Curse of The Golden Flowers etc).

Check Gianni's site ( Basic Role Playing System ).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

...

All in all, Superworld was probably the worse case of sell for Chaosium in France.

...

The figures I managed to get back were (several years ago, about the time when Coc 5.5 was published), when combining US imports, british (Games Workshop) imports and french language publishing:

- Worlds of Wonder : Below 50 (Never published in french).

- Superworld : Around 30 (Never published in french).

- ElfQuest : Around 200 (Never published in french).

- Ringworld : Unknown figures (Never published in french).

- RQII : Around 2000 (Never published in french).

- RQIII: Around 15000 (Published in french).

- SB1 : Around 30000 (Published in french)

- SB>1 : Unknown figures (Never published in french).

- Hawkmoon Around 10000 (Published in French)

- CoC : Over 80000 (Not counting 5.5). 2nd best selling RPG ever.

- BaSIC. : (WoW BRP updated) Over 50000 (Published in french).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

:focus:

Is there anyone of you who plan to use Basic Roleplaying to play a superhero game? If so, how do you game such a setting? Superhero stuff have very little appeal to me, but I would like to hear how other people are planning to use this part, and how the setting would be.

SGL.

No, not for my part. Champions is so much better at it. I reserve BRP for Fantasy/Modern settings (never tried Futuristic ones with it).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

...but the disadvantage system in the WoW version was immensely more sketchy than any version of Hero; it showed what it was, which was an attempt to convert V&V's random generation into a choice based process, and still have some function for drawbacks and limitations that was simple.

Sketchy, to say the least.

I think that's just because people see Champions in much of _any_ point build superhero game. Certainly by the time of the standalone version, the Champs influence was more prounounced, but the disadvantage system in the WoW version was immensely more sketchy than any version of Hero; it showed what it was, which was an attempt to convert V&V's random generation into a choice based process, and still have some function for drawbacks and limitations that was simple.

OK, now I see what you mean.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

...

There not. They make far more money from OGL D&D than they do from MRQ. MRQ just gives then another niche to sell too. Currently that niche comprises of a small percentage of RQ fans and a large does of disenchanted D&Ders. But, since Mongoose is doing to MRQ what WotC did with D&D (splitting everything off into a different supplement), I suspect the disenchanted D&Ders will end up as disenchanted MRQers.

What I was replying to was: "And most D&Ders don't look at and buy non D20 products."

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

No, from what I've read, most of the people seem to be disgusted with the endless number of supplements add ons, and such that expand the game. A lot of groups play at the Gms house so he does have to carry a bookself with him on gaming night.

I like to remember I was not the one GMing WoD games.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

In the mid 90s that started to change. AD&D 2nd edition was losing market share, and companies liek White Wolf were gaining ground. The RPG shops in my area went from being 75% D&D due to volume (there was more D&D stuff than non) to the reverse.

...

For me (in far away Europe), TSR never went below 50% of gamestore exposure, even if they were losing marketshares (to WhiteWolf, RTG, Games Workshop and some others).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Moonstruck! House Sanity Rules for RQ

Link to some Cthulhu-inspired sanity rules for RuneQuest.

SGL.

Quite good. Even if I don't like SAN for other things than sheer horror and that it should be kept out of RQ, this is a good attempt to curve PLAYER way to drive their characters.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

The problem is even there you can get things to crash during editing; I can think of several products for lines I used to follow that didn't show that the author understood the rules that well at all. But so many game companies have, at best, very limited editorial staff that this sort of thing can slip through all too easily.

Exemples? :innocent:

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Its a bit more obvious if you look at the Worlds of Wonder version; the way certain powers were structured, the free side ability with various energy blasts, and so on.

OK (Just checked), but, for me, this is not as visible as the Champions influence.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I suspect he was thinking more in terms of U.S. regionalism.

:innocent:

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

...

OGL did what is was supposed to do for WotC. It turned around the trend in RPGing and made D&D/D20 the predominant system again. Practically any company that is writing good D20 stuff was writing good or better non-D20 stuff before OGL.

...

It already WAS the dominant force, even before OGL!

...

OGL won't help BRP much, since the majority of RPGers don't give a squat about BRP anyway. And most D&Ders don't look at and buy non D20 products.

True, even if Mongoose tries hard to push the other way.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Ironically, this is sort of a side thread of a side thread. The idea being that one of the advantages of closed systems is that you can see what you are buying before you buy, where as with PDFs and many third party products, you are forced to buy blind.

I wonder what other regional differences might exist in RPGing?

Language?

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Even if I don't like RQM, they at least propose official HeroQuesting rules for RQ, a point Chaosium and AH never managed to cover.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Yeah Chaosium blew it badly. But not with RQ2 or OGL. What killed RQ was letting some other company, namely Avalon Hill, have control over the RQ line, and then the long string of reprinted material. Five years of Glorantha reprints at a time when all the Glorantha fans wanted to see how the HeroWars were going to turn out. The Fantasy Earth line was variable quality (Vikings was good, Ninja was not). When AH started writing their own RQ stuff is when I stopped buying all RQ products. Eldarad was worse than the stuff Mongoose churns out. So it wasn't keeping the property closed that killed RQ, it was not keeping it closed enough.

...

As far as I understood, AH never controlled the editorial line on RQIII. Chaosium retained it.

But I agree on the quality comments!

Runequestement votre,

Kloster