Stephen L
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Posts posted by Stephen L
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I liked RQiii, and enjoyed playing for many years. However, it didn't love it as I did RQ2.
For me, RQiii fixed a few irksome things with RQ2, but I thought was slightly over the top, many things that didn't need changing were.
But the New RuneQuest in Glorantha is exactly what I hoped RQ2 was going to be, it fixes the odd thing that didn't work so well, and polishes everything so that it really gleams, so for me, it's definitely the way to go.
However, if you like RQiii, then RQ2 is a really good system, and much to be recommended. RQ leapt out fully formed and good from the start (I've heard that RQ1 and 2 are very similar), and if I wasn't lazy about house ruling the odd bit here and there I'd probably have stayed with RQ2 rather than RQiii.
(But the settings and adventures for RQ are awesome, TrollPack, Pavis, and my favourite Balazar, just amazing, and work RQ2, RQiii and RuneQuest in Glorantha).
But all very much my own opinion.
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At the risk of derailing the thread into a large language model (LLM) discusion.
Nope, it hasn't occured to me to use an LLM as I wouldn't have expected a LLM to have enough training material to be too useful in this domain. And if it *did* have enough training material, I'd worry about the ethics/copyright of said training!
A link to LLM applied to Gloranthan Lore:
https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/18485-chatgpt-is-pretty-well-versed-in-glorantha/
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So I’ve had a look at the movement rules presented in Griffin Mountain, and cross checked against the distance travelled in the Core Rules, and come up with the following table:
Balazar Movement Table Terrain Travel (move 8 walking) (move 5 walking) Type km/day miles/day Hex/day km/day miles/day Hex/day Clear 16 10 2 10 6 1.2 Hills 10 6.25 1.25 6.25 4 0.8 Mountains 4 2.5 0.5 2.5 1.5 0.3 Forest 10 6.25 1.25 6.25 4 0.8 River (crossing) -3 Along path x2 Searching x1/2 Pursuit x2 Mounted x1 1/2 (River crossing is a penalty to km/day)
Given a Balazaring campaign, the adventurers aren’t in general, weary very heavy armour, so I’m not too worried about journeying in armour. But, I wonder what other people do for the dos and don’ts of wearing armour on the trail… Reduce the distance travelled? Ride rolls (Con rolls for those on foot) otherwise sore – penalties applied to Agility skill rolls. Insist on wearing light armour, and what is light, 3-4 points, or half usual Enc limit? Or does that all just get in the way of the fun, and don't really worry about it. Which is probably what I’m tending towards.
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I am planning to be running Rainbow Mounds fairly shortly.
It’s quite nostalgic, because I ran the original, not long after its release, not quite (but almost) the first scenario I ever ran as a referee, and have never returned to it since.
I very much like the update to it in the Starter Set.
I’ve never quite understood how the entrance worked. From the description “Giant’s Table is a double ‘T’ formation, the cave mouth lying between the upright legs”. Which made me imagine that the entrance went down.
But clearly the entranceway is into the cliff face, running horizontally.
I suppose that might mean the table was against the cliff. I don’t know why, but I’d find it slightly disappointing if the table were not free standing, so I was thinking of having the table at the top of the cliff, and the cave entrance at the base of the cliff. Perhaps the cave is actually at the bottom of a narrow, but deep chasm, which runs between the legs of the table, which might be impressive.
My campaign, being in Balazar, needs one or two tweaks to the hook, but not so very much.
SpoilerEven though I last run it so *very* long ago, I still remember it being a bit of a D&D style dungeon clear out, people charging in with swords blazing, killing everything and picking the place clean.
So, I was thinking that perhaps Rastolf remembers a bit more, which might help the players stop and think this time.
If he tells tales of unending sleeplessness kept in terror by the sounds of distant roars and cries and battle, and other strange sounds forever echoing around the caverns, and how his captors trod carefully, wary of ancient denizens that dwelt deep in the earth, perhaps that might make the players think a bit more about what else might be there. Maybe he might even remember a poor unfortunate trollkin being thrown into an underground river as a sacrifice to appease something terrible, and hearing its screams as it was dragged underwater.
Lastly, I have excellent fortune of having a duck in the party. I’m not sure how it would work out if they tried to swim through the underground streams. Badly, if they bumped into Cha’resk. But the adventure is written on the assumption that an adventurer swimming them isn’t a viable option. However, I suspect it would still be madness, since they’d have to take off armour, have no light source, and the only usable weapon being their shortsword. Hmm, I wonder what the newtlings do for light when they’re swimming the streams. Maybe I’ll add a stash of glowstones.
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Updated to version 2.2 to add loads of baddies - Newtlings, more Trollkin (skirmishers/bandits), Mammoths and Skeletons:
https://basicroleplaying.org/files/file/851-npc-squads-txtzip-npc-squadspdf/
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On 1/22/2024 at 9:37 PM, Broadsmile said:
Is this just a case of the game focusing on cool battle powers rather than the more mundanely useful stuff?
Don’t forget that the 7 Mothers write up is appropriate for a worshipper in Prax, so there’s a natural emphasis for stuff that useful to stay alive when everyone else hates you, and are only stopped from killing you by fear. For such frontiers folk the "mundane" stuff is probably dominating the locals.
I would imagine the cult in the Lunar heartlands would have a different emphasis. Perhaps a bit like the Romans populating their frontiers with veterans, I'm not sure it would be valid if you extrapolate their cults and beliefs to the Roman heartlands.
However, for me, it also has the excellent side effect of making the cult really fun to play (and be a cool adversary for the GM). And, if you can suspend your belief, I'm not ashamed of having roleplay fun as good metric.
Playing someone who is exclusively a potato farmer (and no bow, let alone other strings to it) would be rather boring (well in my campaign). Which also might be the real root cause for the argument about potatoes in Glorantha in that other thread…
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On 12/31/2023 at 5:52 PM, Erol of Backford said:
The Jalance Castle in Spain might be a good setting for Dykene
Although I'm pretty sure that's a photo of Xivert castle in Alcala de Chivert of Castellon Templarios of Spain:
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Probably way to late for this old thread, but there's probably some good material to be gleaned from Jeff's White Bull campaign.
It's a while since I listened to them, but I vaguely remember some useful Argrath stuff from the early episodes (episode 11 maybe)
Perhaps the episode list will help.
For those is a rush, you can watch at 1.5 times speed... There are some great ideas and themes to steal...
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18 hours ago, Joerg said:
Even post-Dragon Rise, there are bound to be several thousand Seven Mother initiates native to Sartar.
Quite likely so.
However, what is important is the perception of the cultists in the scenario, and as far as they're concerned, their temple has been sacked, their high priest killed, and the Wyter driven mad. I don't think it implausible that they don't have high expectation of freedom of worship elsewhere in Sartar, and are probably too scared to leave.
Doubtless there are 7 mothers cultists who've left Jonstown, to lie low with relatives somewhere quieter, or fled northwards. Noting, though, refugees on a significant scale rarely receive a warm welcome, especially in troubled times, and indeed where the authorities are worried about possible local Orlanthi uprisings...
So we're left with the rational behind those cultists who've remained in Jonstown.
5 hours ago, Scornado said:Because I've set the scenario 1 year after the liberation, the approach of the anniversary causing the wyter to "wake up", I have assumed that over the year any other Seven Mothers cultists have left Jonstown (or died) because it's just not a good place to live any more.
That all makes sense.
Actually it was about a year after the dragon rise in my campaign that I ran the scenario. I was surprised how few changes I felt were needed, it all worked fine... I just have the cultists being rather timid, and taking a long time to make it to the temple to try and worship, which is what (eventually) woke the Wyter.
But the feeling of impermanence in Kallyr's Sartar, which never really feels like a long term solution, helps, since the atmosphere in Jonstown one year on isn't that different from immediately after liberation, the expectation (shared by the players) is that the Lunars are gathering their forces northwards, to shortly sweep away the rebels.
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I ran this scenario last year, and had a great time with it. Half my group were new to role playing, let alone Glorantha, and as we're still going as a group, I think it that means it was a success.
Funnily enough, I almost never use a scenario as written, they usually need all kind of tweaks/rewrites to fit the narrative of the campaign, but this slotted in really easily, and I ran as is, almost a first for me.
It did take some amount of prep, but that was just very careful reading and making notes (and a dramatis persona list, noting page numbers for reference).
I've re-read your e-mail and personally don't see the inconsistencies in the original, but I might just be misremembering, it was last year, and my memory isn't the best!
SpoilerOn 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:The first house that was burned belonged to one of the Seven Mothers cultists, Andralor the Potter. Why would the wyter have been attacking there? Quite a coincidence that it chose one of the handful of cultists in town! (Honestly it looks to me like this scene is just meant to drop the clue of his and his sister's identity, plus the fact that he created the lamps found at other scenes, and introduce the bad blood around the burning of the Seven Mothers temple. But it doesn't make sense.)
Makes sense to me - the wyter is loitering around the cultists as it starts to foray from the temple. There could well be a resonance that it feels that makes it not unlikely that's where it manifests early on. Also who says the Wyter is attacking? The cultists are trying to contain it, get it back to the temple, and it's their failed attempt that causes the fire. They hardly want a mad lunar spirit on the loose in Jonstown.
On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:Why is the background action starting with houses being burned, anyway? How would the cultists manage to know that the wyter was rampaging and needed to be stopped before it actually managed to, you know, attack someone and drive them mad or something? Isn't that a more likely starting point? (I can think of other starting points. Just not the arson, because that has to be reactive.)
The background action starting point is indeed well indeed before the houses burning - the death of the high priest and burning of the temple. Later, the wyter is disturbed by the cultists who just want to worship their gods again, and regain rune points, and it all flows from there. Perhaps there have been other incidents of madness from attacks from the wyter, but I'd be surprised if anyone made particular note of them- it's after a traumatic event in the history of the town, it's liberation, so you'd expect psychological trauma, so who would make any connection?
The fires are only the start of player involvement, if it weren't for the fires, and were cases of psychological trauma, it would be a case for the Chalana Arroy to deal with, and Jonstown is well stocked with Chalan Arroy, so why involve the players.On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:But again, unless the wyter had already caused some sort of trouble, why would she be in Under the Hill looking for it
No, the cultists want to worship again. They have lost connection with their gods, and that matters in Glorantha. After the sack of the temple, a bit of time for things to settle, then they return to attempt to worship. They wake the wyter, which is mad, and from then on it's down hill. I *really* don't think they would be trying to destroy the wyter, they just want to contain it. They want it all to stop, and have no idea how to.
On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:I get that they are desperate and don't have a lot of options, but this is like the worst coverup attempt of all time. After 2 or at least 3 fires they wouldn't try something else?
No, they don't have *any* options. Look at them, they don't have anyone equipped to deal with this. A bunch of kids/drunks/misfits/bandits/a security guard. And a scribe. They're so far out of their depth...
And they are not trying to cover things up with arson, they are just trying to contain the situation, and don't know how to.
All they want is to worship their gods in peace, and do no-one any harm. Let alone destroy their Wyter!
When the players found them, they were at the point of giving up and leaving Jonstown and the Wyter for good... A bit step, since, unless they leave Sartar, they;re unlikely to find anywhere to worship, and would effectively be godless. Not good in Glorantha.
On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:(I know my Maximum Game Fun sense tells me that the wyter should not be completely helpless during these phases. But having have some kind of disadvantage makes sense, and I'm wondering what the intent is here)
When I ran it, things went quiet during these phases... It's just a case of scheduling events, and having time for the player to investigate (or not, if things drive quickly to a climax). It worked. It was full moon by the time the party were exploring the temple... oops. They got a proper fright. Ran away screaming, I seem to recall.
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2 hours ago, AlHazred said:
It might be worth reaching out to Jennell Jaquays
Many thanks for the suggestion, though I did see on RPGgeek that she is unwell, and there is an appeal...
https://rpggeek.com/thread/3178435/gofundme-jennell-guillain-barre-syndrome
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Ah yes thanks - there's a bit on the Jonstown compendium that's worth investigating (should have looked first...)
I see also the Back To Balazar might be releasing a 1625 update soon...
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My Balazaring campaign might be shortly winding up at Elkoi, and I wondered about good images for both the citadel and also for personalities.
I’ve the original Griffin Mountain (with generally rather good artwork, but very sparse) and the Gloranthan Classics reprint (which has more art, but the additions are of varying quality).
Elkoi is obviously based on the ancient Mycenaean citadel of Tiryns, so good images on the web. So far I’ve found these:
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/396387204699687861/
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/1050675788052494226/
And for the Magaron (which might fit Elkoi, with it pretence at civilisation, Trilus and Dykene would be more rustic):
https://blog.stephens.edu/arh101glossary/?glossary=megaron
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/611715561859426457/
For characters, there are the excellent one of Hacyon Var Encorth in the original, and a not bad Queen Jocestis in the reprint.
If the party opt for the grand entrance, there might be a feast with the royals, in which case I imagined Hecis might be persuaded by her father to dance, a la 7 veils:
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/523613894170933848/
If anyone has any links for any other characters, or an ancient feast with the royals, that would be amazing!
Perhaps for Euryptus the bold:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/aR1APL
As an aside, as a kid, when Griffin Mountain first came out (yes I’m that old), I had a fascination with floor plans of historical sites, so I realised that Elkoi was Tiryns. I had assumed that Dykene was one of the Troys (which isn’t such a good match, now plans are easier to come by, with the invention of the web: squinting and not looking too closely it’s a tiny bit like Troy IV). The young me was convinced Trilus was Mycenae, but now, looking at it, the plan of Trilus bears no resemblance to Mycenae. Was the young me just fooled by the similarity of the Lion gate? Or had I found a real-world source and I have just forgotten with the passage of so much time. After all, it’s not so many years now before it will be the 50th anniversary of its first publication.
And wouldn’t some fan generated art be a fantastic way of celebrating such an anniversary…
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On 3/15/2023 at 2:19 AM, Ian A. Thomson said:
as I start to write Vol. 03 that we finally begin incorporating (revised versions of) the campaign adventures
Lots of stat blocks to look forward to 🙂 Happy to help if required...
17 hours ago, Ian A. Thomson said:Drivethru links for contributor copies have been sent out. 🙂
And having a quick flick through, it looks amazing! Getting something that's pure gold for such humble offerings, that's quite a deal!
Thanks muchly Mr Thomson!
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2 hours ago, g33k said:
People got a little bit... let's call it "overenthusiastic"
Count me in that category, as evidenced by:
https://basicroleplaying.org/files/file/851-npc-squads-txtzip-npc-squadspdf/
😁
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My campaign goes to Balazar, Huzzah!
Added are Balazaring hunters, warriors, dogs (hunting and fighting) and Ogres.
So if you want stat blocks for NPCs download them from here.
https://basicroleplaying.org/files/file/851-npc-squads-txtzip-npc-squadspdf/
There're thousands (or there abouts)
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1 hour ago, Joerg said:
I still need to be convinced that "living" requires a permanent physical body. Take a spirit to the Dead Place and it will manifest physically.
I quite like Scotty's reply on a different thread (asking what a "living being" is for the purposes of second sight) it was elegantly simple:
Quote- Those that have POW and a physical form are living beings
- Those without POW that have a physical form are undead
- Those without physical form that have POW are spirits
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The Gloranthan Classics version has a Clans of Balazar (p20) - I don't think it's in the original.
I transcribed it to a table, for ease of reference. If anyone else finds it useful here it is.
Clans are either marked as Ally or enemy, the degree of animosity on a scale of 1 (dislike) to 6 (unreasoning rancor) as detailed in the original.
Note the difference between the specific "citadel clan" and the wider "all residents of a citadel" (which is the rightmost 3 columns).
Note also that's it not reflective - the active works by row. So if I want to know how friendly someone from the Brown Boar clan is likely to be, I read across their row, noting for example, that they're hostile to the Impala clan (but the Impala clan a neutral towards them).
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Fear and Hate are not mutually exclusive.
Also, someone (or something) who is scared can make a *very* dangerous foe. Just see what happens when you corner a rat...
Running away because you rolled under your fear passion is just the most obvious response, it's not the only one. I'd believe frenzied attack or stealth...
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I've just updated the attachments for the family history tables in the post above - The probability of rolling on the plunder table was slightly high...
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Well, I've had a go at the family history, and attached for comment (or use if you like!)
I've kept to the RQ2 classic timeline, and adopted a 1616 start date, convinced by jajagappa's argument.
All events are referred to in Griffin Mountain, and I *think* I've got the dates right (there is some leeway in some of the dates). And I've added the raids involving Balazar in from Wyrms Footnotes #15 (from the army events). Between them, that gives quite a rich background, and quite colourful. I've tried to tie in as many connections as I can with NPCs from Griffin Mountain. The marriage of Glyptus, sudden death of his father, and ascension to the Elkoi throne all happening very rapidly, the year before the characters are borne gives interesting possibilities...
But if I've missed any noteworthy event, do please let me know.
I've kept the text from Griffin Mountain about the rebuilding of Dykene in 1580, where it refers to "rebuilding began under the direction of the great grandfather to Skilfil Heartpiercer". If Skilfil is in his 40s in 1616, that's a lot of generations to squeeze in, but having just done the maths, it just about works for a precocious line (Great Grandpa would have by pushing 70 in 1580 if we assume 21 years between generations).
Given it's rather long (8 pages), I've attached (word doc and PDF for those that don't like MS) rather than create a monumentally long post...
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15 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:
If I may make an observation or two
Observations gratefully accepted please, I'm not precious.
Actually I'm dissatisfied - particularly with the sheer number of changes. It feels inelegant. Most other culture bonuses run to under 10 non weapon skill modifications...
15 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:May I suggest Manage Campsite?
Jajapagga's arguments are compelling - Manage household has a place, if reinterpreted for campsite. I might call it "Manage Hearth", as the Balazarings have the concept of hearth running throughout the book.
15 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:19 hours ago, Stephen L said:Singing should be available to clans as well, even wolves sing at night when the moon is full. I would think primitive man would sing, well see the notes below...
Well argued, and admitted. However the fault lies with my poor tabling skills (and haste in copy and pasting from Excel). There should be a plus to indicate bonus to the base which is in the brackets.
15 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:Why would a citadel dweller be a better dancer? One could say more civilized perhaps, but better?
Singing and dancing seem to be fairly ubiquitous in the core rules with bonuses for most cultures. My interpretation is the importance in ritual. However, the Praxian don't get it, and so I had the Citadel dwellers being more similar to the barbarous Sartarites in Sing/Dance, whilst the clans being more like the Savage Praxians...
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Well, I've rolled up my sleeves, and started - many thanks again Jajapagga for the steer in an earlier post.
The cultural skills was somewhat more involved than I thought (typically before, I've found only fairly minor tweeks to the most similar culture in the core rules have been required). But, savages barely out of the stone age (who haven't even adopted the wheel) makes many skills inappropriate (Drive chariot!).
Also, Griffin Mountain states:
QuoteBecause of their hardy life as children, all
beginning characters will have additional skill
bonuses added onto their beginning statisticsAnd the table that follows for Beginning Balazaring Skills represents a very large markup on the RQ2 Beginning skills. Whilst it gives a delta which could be used to determine homeland skill bonuses, I've used it sparingly, and only as a start for the thinking process.
Also, I suspect for the weapons section, it would be better removing shields completely, since I'm not sure how much Balazarings use them - They're quite bulky to cart around on a hunting expedition, or indeed for a largely nomadic culture. Perhaps they're what you strap all your stuff to when you're moving around!
I'll start work on the family history table shortly, then I think I'm done
But comments on this gratefully accepted (especially if there how to make tables come out better once posted)
Homeland: Balazar (rural/citadel)
Starting Passions:
- Love (family): 60%
- Loyalty (temple/Priest): 60% (e.g. Sun Dome Temple)
- Loyalty (citadel/Clan): 60% (e.g. Elkoi)
Rune Modifier:
Fire +10%
Perhaps also Beast +10% (or perhaps just for the rural clans).
Occupation
D20
Occupation
Notes
1
Assistant Shaman
2
Bandit
3-4
Crafter
5
Entertainer
6
Farmer
Elkoi only
7
Fisher
8
Healer
9-10
Herder
Citadel
11-15
Hunter
16
Merchant
17
Noble
18
Priest
19
Thief
20
Warrior
Citadel – Light infantry
Homeland Skills/Weapons:
Base
Bonus
Clan
Citadel
Agility
Climb
(40)
+10%
+10%
Drive Chariot
(05)
-5%
-5%
Jump
(DEX×3)
+10%
+10%
Ride (mount type)
(05)
-5%
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Communication
Dance
(10)
-
+5%
Sing
(10)
-
+10%
Speak Own (Balazaring)
(50)
-
-
Speak Other (Tradetalk)
(00)
+5%
+10%
Knowledge
Animal Lore
(05)
+15%
+10%
Customs (Balazaring)
(25)
-
-
Evaluate
(10)
-5%
-
Farm
(10)
-10%
-10%
(0% Elkoi)Herd
(05)
-5%
+10%
Peaceful Cut
(10)
+15%
+10%
Plant Lore
(05)
+5%
+5%
Survival
(15)
+20%
+10%
Train Dog
(25)
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-
Magic
Spirit Combat
(20)
+15%
+15%
Manipulation
Conceal
(05)
+10%
-
Perception
Listen
(25)
+15%
+10%
Scan
(25)
+15%
+10%
Track
(05)
+20%
+10%
Stealth
Hide
(10)
+15%
+10%
Move Quietly
(10)
+15%
+10%
Combat
Dagger
(15)
+10%
+10%
1H Battle Axe or Hatchet
(10)
+10%
+10%
1H Spear
(05)
+15%
+15%
2H Spear
(15)
+10%
+10%
Composite or Self Bow or Sling
(05)
+15%
+15%
Javelin
(10)
+10%
+10%
Shield Small
(15)
+15%
+10%
Shield Medium
(15)
+10%
+15%
Occupations:
As core rules, p63-73.
- Manage Household is appropriate for rural clan, Based on Jajapagga's arguments! Perhaps called Manage Hearth.
- Ride may not be appropriate for rural clan, replacing with Animal Lore is suggested
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Out now: a new look Glorantha Sourcebook
in RuneQuest
Posted
And a link: