Paladin : Random Questions

[Crabus]

Hi,

After my first reading of Paladin rules I have some question.

1. p77

Quote

Love is an emotional bonding or attraction felt by one individual
for another individual or group. A character may have
many loves, but only one counts for Glory points each year, normally
the highest.

Does it include default loves (Love [God], Love [Charlemagne] and Love [Familly]) or only additional Love ?

2. Is glory gain for a Hate of 16 or higher ? Only one as Love ?

3. p112 Traveling Unknown routes. How should many PK make the hunting roll ?

4. p122. Lance charge. Is a Horsemanship roll required for a charge attend ?

5. p124. Does the rule for "Damage to Armor" apply on creatures ?

6. p125. Jousting. "critical success with a jousting lance, however, does normal horse damage as if it was a strike with a real lance". Does the rule of all damage dice equal 6 apply too ? 

7. p128. Uncontrolled attack. Can the free attack be a grapple, and so stop the attacker on a success ?

8. p147. Rout. On stand failure. Does the weapon skill modifier is -20 (-5 because of the failure + -15 because of the battalion routs (p144)) ? 

9. p147. Rout. On stand success, the resulting unit is isolated and will suffer a -10 modifier on battle skill. Right ?

Thank you very much for your help.

[Morien]

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

Hi,

After my first reading of Paladin rules I have some question.

Here are some of my quick answers, from my own GMing perspective. I have not GMed Paladin, though.

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

1. p77

Does it include default loves (Love [God], Love [Charlemagne] and Love [Familly]) or only additional Love ?

I would normally apply that limitation to all Loves. However, it is my understanding that Paladin gives Glory only once for Famous passions and not annually as with KAP, which is where that sentence comes from. Thus, it would not be a big deal if you gave it for all of them.

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

2. Is glory gain for a Hate of 16 or higher ? Only one as Love ?

Yes, you gain Glory for Hate higher than 16. Again, I would limit it to just one Hate if it is annual, but if it is a one-time reward, I am not going to begrudge the Player mere 16 Glory.

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

3. p112 Traveling Unknown routes. How should many PK make the hunting roll ?

The best Hunter rolls, the others follow. Otherwise it becomes an argument.

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

4. p122. Lance charge. Is a Horsemanship roll required for a charge attend ?

No, it is not.

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

5. p124. Does the rule for "Damage to Armor" apply on creatures ?

No, IMHO. But you can rule it otherwise. I can see scales flying off a dragon, or the knight aiming his sword at an already open wound in the creature's hide.

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

6. p125. Jousting. "critical success with a jousting lance, however, does normal horse damage as if it was a strike with a real lance". Does the rule of all damage dice equal 6 apply too ? 

No. Jousting lances don't normally do (lethal) damage, so the critical effect is to do normal horse (charge) damage.

(We have houseruled this so that the lance does +4d6 damage for knockdown purposes on a critical, and on a FUMBLE, you take the OPPONENT's hit as real damage. This is to prevent the high-skill knights murdering newbie knights with their crits.)

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

7. p128. Uncontrolled attack. Can the free attack be a grapple, and so stop the attacker on a success ?

I think both Grapple and Uncontrolled attack happen 'last' in the strike order (i.e. grapple vs. normal attack means that the normal attack is resolved first), so I would rule them happening simultaneously. In our table, all declarations are secret until resolved, so you would have to declare a grapple before you know what the other guy is doing, anyway.

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

8. p147. Rout. On stand failure. Does the weapon skill modifier is -20 (-5 because of the failure + -15 because of the battalion routs (p144)) ? 

I think that is correct, although the Rout table didn't make that explicit.

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

9. p147. Rout. On stand success, the resulting unit is isolated and will suffer a -10 modifier on battle skill. Right ?

Thank you very much for your help.

On the next round, yes. For this round, he has already rolled Battle.

[Crabus]

Thank you very much.

For jousting lance critical, it make sense that a highly skilled knight can avoid doing lethal damages. I will borrow your house rule.

[Morien]

9 minutes ago, Crabus said:

Thank you very much.

Happy to help.

9 minutes ago, Crabus said:

For jousting lance critical, it make sense that a highly skilled knight can avoid doing lethal damages. I will borrow your house rule.

It works very well. Tournaments are still dangerous, but it is an accident (fumble) that causes lethal damage, not the deliberate aim (critical) by the master jouster.

[Crabus]

On 5/30/2020 at 3:05 PM, Morien said:

it is my understanding that Paladin gives Glory only once for Famous passions and not annually as with KAP

I am curious to understand why you understood that.

Quote

(P181) Annual Glory: Many sources of Glory are annual. For example, holding a manor gains 6 Glory per year, and being an ideal knight (Chivalrous, Romantic or Pious) gains 100 Glory. Glory for Passion or Traits over 16 should be calculated. See the Passive Glory section in Chapter 4 for more information.

But there is nothing about passive glory for passion and traits in chapter 4.🤨

[Morien]

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

I am curious to understand why you understood that.

I think it is something that Ruben said in one of the posts he made about Paladin. I will try to see if I can track down that thread for you...

Found it: https://greathall.chaosium.com/Pendragon Forum Archive/index.php/t-3120.html

1 hour ago, Crabus said:

But there is nothing about passive glory for passion and traits in chapter 4.🤨

p. 66: "The threshold value for gaining Glory and reputation from a trait or passion is 16."

p. 78: "Famous passions generate Glory. Each winter, a character receives Glory for most high-value passions. Only passions with a value of 16 or more generate Glory, and several restrictions and exceptions apply."

p. 88: "No Glory is gained for simply having high Traits or Passions or Skills."

But as Ruben clarifies in the above thread, you are supposed to gain Glory ONCE (per level) when you achieve Trait/Passion/Skill/Stat 16+ (and for each successive step). You don't gain annual Glory, nor do you gain the Glory again if your trait falls below 16 and then increases to 16 again. So if your Strength goes from 15 to 16, you gain 16 Glory that year, but if your STR drops to 15 the following year and you raise it back to 16, you gain no Glory, but on the third year you raise it to 17, and gain 17 Glory since it is the highest you have gotten to. Or if you leave your STR to 16, it doesn't generate any extra Glory in the subsequent years, nor would any other Trait/Passion/Skill/Stat.

Note also that it is harder to raise Traits and Passions above 15 in Paladin than in KAP, since the cap in Paladin is at 15, whereas in KAP it is 20. Paladin has an Attribute & Skill cap of 20, but the Aging starts 5 years earlier, which puts a stop to Attribute increases. 

[Crabus]

1 hour ago, Morien said:

Found it: https://greathall.chaosium.com/Pendragon Forum Archive/index.php/t-3120.html

Thank you very much. Make more sense now.