Sandestin Magic

[Antalon]

I am preparing a Lyonesse game, and am really struggling with Sandestin magic. My increasingly frustrated issues with Sandestin magic are down to: 1) confusion of terms, in which I cannot understand whether “Sandestin Abilities” are directly equal to (that is, synonymous with) “Spells”; 2) there is no guidance as to the number of ‘spells’ (or is it ‘Sandestin Abilities’) that fall under a specific Axiom; 3) whether the Axiom further limits the Abilities (or spells?), either the circumstances of use or the effects they have, or things they may effect.

On point 1, page 309 states magic is invoked by spells, page 345 states that the Invocation skill “concerns a limited subset of Sandestin invocations, or as they are commonly referred to by the uninitiated, spells” [note a further term ‘Sandestin invocations’]; page 346 says “each Sandestin spell is linked to one of more explicit axioms…”; then page 350 in the ability traits section “All sandestin abilities are defined by several traits which control how each spell functions.”. Finally, page 377 list spells in the saga, and does seem to relate these directly to a single (or combined) Sandestin ability.  I tentatively conclude that Sandestin Abilities are therefore synonymous with Spells (yet spells really seem the outcomes of the Sandestin Coercion ability).

On point 2) I see no guidance at all.  Nothing.  The starting spells for new magicians suggests a maximum of 5 ‘spells’ could be known. But would an Axiom have more Abilities available than this?  For some Axiom I am struggling to come up with 3-4 Abilities, let alone 6+.

Point 3), to take one Axiom, “Cyclomancy: Enhancing things that have a circular motion,such as wheels or even planets in an orbit.”.  First, very few Abilities relate directly. Second, should Abilities be limited to objects/ things with a circular motion? Third, should the Abilities themselves be made to have a ‘circular motion’ effect.  For example, the ability Dynamism, is it limited to only affecting wheels etc, or, would it impose a circular motion in its effect, and would this limit what it can effect (because a circular motion is not feasible).  

The absence of any worked examples gives nothing to extrapolate on. It is hugely frustrating.  And, I think this not just a matter of GM judgement: I do not have sufficient clarity from reading the rules to make judgements, unless I redesign substantially!  So, if at all possible, a definitive view on:

1) is the term Spell synonymous with Sandestin Ability?

2) What is the number (or range) of ‘spells’ in an Axiom?

3) How does an Axiom affect (or guide) the choice of suitable Sandestin Ability, and does the Axiom otherwise limit the specific use of any particular Sandestin Ability?

Can this be explained via an example?  Some detailed treatment of these issues would be appreciated, and if I am missing something obvious I’d be very happy to be corrected!

[lawrence.whitaker]

Some quick replies - I'll see if I can secure a more detailed example separately.

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1) is the term Spell synonymous with Sandestin Ability?

Sort of. They are one and the same for the purposes of game mechanics. A spell is technically the set of instructions that makes the sandestin use its ability in the way the magician wants it to be used. This generally involves some form of negotiation and a fair amount of precision on the magician's part, but generally ability=spell.

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2) What is the number (or range) of ‘spells’ in an Axiom?

There's no actual range. Axioms are broad categorizations used to group sandestin abilities into a loose hierarchy. Magicians who decide to specalize in, say, weather magic, might focus on controlling sandestins from the Pyromancy and Macromancy axioms, or even Nigromancy. Different magicians might have different approaches. Some axioms may have a wide range of sandestin abilities available, and some not so much. The list offered is also not exhaustive, but just an example of how axioms are presented. Indeed, sandestins may even argue about which axioms apply to them.

As to how many in an axiom the character has - take page 346 as your guide. Characters starting as magicians have (INT/6)+2 abilities (or spells, if you prefer) - so a magician with INT 18 has 5 abilities. These may be in one axiom, or split between a couple, depending on how you want to specialize. More can be obtained through, study, research, theft and tuition. A grimoire might contain a dozen abilities relevant to a specific axiom only, and be useless to others. The pursuit of magic, and its mastery, are meant to be difficult and fraught.

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3) How does an Axiom affect (or guide) the choice of suitable Sandestin Ability, and does the Axiom otherwise limit the specific use of any particular Sandestin Ability?

Everything is negotiable and subject to the creativity of the magician (for that, read player) and the sandestin. You mentioned Cyclomancy, and the lack of abilities for it. Well, how about these suggestions:

Conflagration from the wheels of a cart on cobblestones
Conscription of creatures of the air (birds, say, or bat) from the whirling blades of a windmill
Cunctation - time slowing for the target when a spinning top is set in motion
Divination using a potter's wheel to set a bowl of water in motion
Ejection by spinning a coin on a flat surface
(an obvious one) Gyration to punish someone or break something by causing it to spin uncontrollably
Insulation by rapidly rotating on the spot
Involution by spinning it in a centifruge

An ability should have some relation to the axiom the magician specializes in, but the axiom can be used as a loose definition of how the magician performs magic, as much as the effects themselves.

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Can this be explained via an example?  Some detailed treatment of these issues would be appreciated, and if I am missing something obvious I’d be very happy to be corrected!

I'll see if Pete can put something together. His mind is way more fiendish than mine.

[Antalon]

Thanks Loz.  I need to absorb this.