Enpeze

Fully agreed with everything you said. Except maybe a simple basic version for disads/ads - maybe included with the power rules of superworld. But if yes only as option and please not in the core rules.

Tossing Coins? Really? What a cr... I am not wondering that I never heard from this "game". :eek: This I cannot understand. BRP is one of the simplest game ever. Eg. its definately NOT necessary to explain every finesse of the ENC rules to a newbie. (or even the difference between the different magic types, or even magic at all) I am able to explain BRP to my little nephew in under 5 min. "You are mighty warrior with a 1d8 broadsword. this is a d8 and if it shows seven then you rolled a seven. This is a d100 and and the red dice shows 4 and the yellow 1 then you rolled 41...etc." Roll under your skill to be successful and if your HP are 0 you are dead. Thats all. Lets begin. Whats the difficulty? Or is Greg more the type of "explaining everything" before the game begins? I guess there are good teachers and bad ones in life. You mean HQ, no? Why does everybody think that HQ is so simple? I had to read the rules three times till I fully understood them and recognized how odd and strange the gaming concept is. Its everything else than intuitive and what I am expecting from a good roleplaying game. BTW I dont know whats all the fuss about this artificial cathegory "storytelling game". I mean I am sure that my games are telling good and dense stories (at least according to my players) So I am not sure why storytelling games should have other rules than so-called simulative games. So for me a rpg rule is a rpg rule. There is no differenciation between different styles, because there are not just 3 styles out there. There are 300k styles out there. Obviously the cathegories have been made at some point by bloated self-acclaimed "experts" which think to know the whole truth about the hobby. (Sorry but these things make me a little bit mad) Yeah. It seems so. SP is my hero too. Maybe if you want to explain every RQ rule before you begin to play you are right. But this is from the teaching point of view a big mistake. Explain the 10 most important rules and then begin to play. You will see the rest will easily incorporate.

For me its not really hate. But I would not be interested in playing in it. Its a little bit too much "Greg - 16y old" for me. (you know here are knights, over there are romans, here are natives americans which fight with vikings, nearby are cowboys and samurais...whatever I am sure you know what I mean) Additionally the Gloranthan language is rather tedious and unimaginative to me. Eg. I cant speak out loud "Kralorela" without getting a knot in my tongue. But I have to admit that some concepts in Glorantha are very nice. Eg. the runes and the idea behind the lunar empire. (I like Empires - I am from Austria) I always thought you can play nearly every setting out there with BRP? I do this, so lack of a setting is not that important for me. I dont consider rules and setting as a unity which can not be divided. So either I play my own house setting or I use the worlds of Traveller, Cyberspace, CoC, Moorcock etc. with BRP. Sounds excellent. I dont think that they can. But even if, is this so desireable? I mean they are not that good in economy, so even if they get a bigger license I think it would be difficult for them to draw real profit from it. It would be an unnecessary dangerous financial adventure for them, one which they should leave to more economical competent companies. So I dont wish that they do that. All I wish is that they publish their BRP system with one or two books per year and thats it. Their great strength is in designing good games.

arghl. Badcat was first. He mentioned all the things I wanted to post. Well maybe I should not sleep so long. So I can nothing contribute, he said it already.

Really? Happened this Prince Valiant story at a con? He refused to explain BRP rules to newbies? Because he meant that they are too complicated? Wtf. I remember. Initially I was not very fond of your critical arguments. But the more I experienced the mediocreness of MRQ (by playing it) the more they became true. Sadly.

Dungeons and Dragonballz, hehe. Great. I would not say that I dont like the way D&D goes now. I even find it better than the previous 2 editions. But maybe thats just me and my love of using technology in an new, innovative way. 4.0. goes a step farther than other roleplaying games and evolves in a real modern 21st century game. I looked at some interviews and videos (from youtube) where they explained 4.0. Well lets look what a real 4.0 player will need -4.0. miniatures (the old 3.5er minis are not fully usable in 4.0. as an employee from WotC meant in an interview), -a laptop with internet connection, -a blizz..ähem WotC subscription -of course the 4.0. core books and adventures They dont offer a conversion kit to update characters from 3.5 to 4.0, because they said that the editions are too different. Instead they said that the D&D GMs should finish their 3.5. campaign in the next several months and then begin the new 1st level 4th ed. campaigns. I am sure D&D will become a great hybrid between board, computer and roleplaying-light game. Anybody wondering why I still prefer BRP?

Thats it. I guess Greg Stafford is not the biggest BRP fan anymore. He seems to prefer the HQ game. And Steve Perrin wrote some interesting posts on rpg.net after the release of MRQ, where he complained that he didnt get a cheque from Mongoose for MRQ. Mongoose posted too and then sent him the cheque. (really big cinema ) I think a big problem too was that the guys at Mongoose didnt understand the spirit of BRP at all. They have been in their little D&D tainted world and where too overconfident to be able to make a "new RQ" without much effort. At least it would explain why they didnt hear at the playtesters comments. Many of them seem to be not very long in the hobby or in game designing at all. I mean I dont design an elegant piece of clothing for Armani if I am a trainee from Walmarth, no? Well, we dont know how 4.0. will be. I heard that they want to go along World of Warcraft MMORPG with simpler rules, subscription model, computer aided support and heavy "focus" on 4 different roles in game. (tank, damage dealer, hybrid and healer) When I read this I was very amused. So who knows if they have RQ inspired skills at all in 4.0? It could also be a "craft system" with templates and receipes or whatever. (and maybe you have to conduct a "corpse run" if you die )

Ah, naa. playing gate guardians with lazguns was not our style. Back in the 90ties we were proud dystopians.

I agree to some extent. BRP without d100? Well maybe we can say that Pendragon is a game with many BRP elements, but not BRP as such. I am also not sure about the litte subgames in Pendragon. Like the passions or the province building rules. This is hardly BRP. But I dont know it for sure because I never played it (high Fantasy is not interesting enough for me). Was not G. Stafford the author?

Really? no SF game? I guarantee you, its an interesting experience. We played over several years traveller and a Cyberspace (ICE) campaign with BRP rules. It was a blast. (in the truest sense )

I agree. This motivation was surely very strong for Mongoose. Additonally I guess there have been possible one or two bloated egos from the Mongoose "game designers" which liked to release the version of RQ which they personally liked best. (regrettable they seem to have played alot of D&D in their previous rpg carreer) Again agreed. There could be changes. But please leave them in the next edition of BRP. The edition of this year should IMO only be a clever and streamlined collection of core and OOP material (which could be also very exotic and unknown by the most players) Eg. regarding unarmed combat J. Durall said that he wrote the system along the rules of SB5. (with a single brawl skill)

We use the Brawl rules from SB5 in addition to a house rule that you have to sutract the damage bonus of your target from your damage roll. (critical excluded) So tough guys with damage bonus are more difficult to hurt by weaklings. I cannot remember that we ever used the kick damage rule or headbutt, which I consider as pure nonsense and system flaw (one of the few).

Well the problem is WE had BRP before, but is this the same for others? 90% of the BRP material is OOP and out of reach for most of potential players. So for them its new and not old. IMO one of the fundamental problems to convince some people of the qualitity of the system is that most of it is simply not in print. How can you show a gamer which is interested in a superhero game that Superworld could perfectly suit his tastes? Its not available anymore, so he chooses another rpg. For BRP the most concepts and ideas are out there. All it needs is to be collected a little bit streamlined and published. I think there is no need to fix something which was never broken. Mongoose tried it recently and released a mediocre variant of BRP. This shows that its not so easy to make a good upgrade to BRP.

I agree that this might be possible with sufficient tweaking and house ruling. But for what price? Is it BRP anymore or is it something else after such a transformation? This is right. But not everyone had such an armor. (I remember just one player in my group in the entire campaign had demon armor) And its just a rare, expensive magical gadget. He doesnt wear it during sleep, sex etc. (at least I hope so:D). Its not a substitution for a rule system which allows that everybody has alot of HP. In the end, we will not know, what it was. (we seem to have some slightly deviating opinions about this sujet) At least BRP seem to get a second chance to become more popular the next years.

Welcome on board. I would agree on the most things about BRP history you wrote. But its only part of the real reason for me. Another (and maybe bigger part) of reason is that D&D with its way to handle rpgs is better suited for the needs of the masses of roleplayers. (see above) So BRP could have a better position than today, but it would not have the ability to be number one in popularity instead of D&D. (maybe among the top 5)

Yes. I remember. Nonetheless I think that BRP (while beeing the best rule set out there) had never the chance to become number one (not even number 3 or so) among rpgs. IMO it lacks some fundamental mechanics most players seem to enjoy. (you know levels, instant gratifications and massive hitpoints) Its not just a matter of support. Its also very human that most like to think of themselves as miniature versions of 10th level hero Bruce Willis mowing down bad 1st level goons. D&D support such vision. BRP not really. (at least not in any game I took part) So the core features of BRP (like we defined them already in another thread) are catering just the needs of a part of roleplayers but not the vast majority. But what I agree is that BRP could have a considerable larger market share if Chaosium had shown a better economic skill in the past. Whatever. They are able to show it this year. (not that I am very optimistic about the future market share of BRP, but they are excellent in designing games, so I think I will love the new book)

Please atgxtg dont say the word "non-lethal". This is no-no. A bad word.

Funnily I just read something about the new D&D 4.0. and I most time I was amused from the commentaries of the fans and the designers about their new "baby". Among other changes they spoke about heavy concentration on four focus roles of the different character classes in 4.0.: 1. front line fighters (tanks?), 2. damage dealers (mages and the new warlock class) 3. Healers (clerics, druids) and 4. hybrids (paladins etc) My conclusio: D&D 4.0 seems to be designed more like a World of Warcraft MMORPG than any other system out there. These guys are really great. In one Interview I heard, the WotC guy even meant that its NOT possible to use all D&D miniatures from 3.5. in 4.0. (just a few). WtF - I had to laugh that much that I nearly fell from my chair. Great stuff which shows how money can mutate a rpg in something else. (dont know what) After this unbelievable interviews about D&D 4.0 I am really glad to have BRP as my rpg system of choice.

I am not sure if I can agree with this. I think BRP is suited for a gritty, realistic and unheroic gaming style but many gamers prefer the opposite. I mean they like to kill their enemies but not to be killed by them. They like to find their sword+4 vs. giant rats and they like to get 100 XP for every giant rat they are able to kill with it. They prefer cheesy "game in game" mechanics suited for powergaming to realistic action like BRP offers. So IMO many of the D&D fans them would never change to BRP even if Chaosium had played their cards right. (But I think what we both can agree upon is that BRP would have a much higher popularity if they did. I guess it would be under the top 5 rule systems.)

We know that BRP is the best rule set out there. I was always wondering why it has not the popularity it would deserve. What do you think: why is this so? I think the most important reason is that alot of BRP material is OOP and only CoC and SB (as PDF) is remaining. Maybe the knowledgeable participants at this forum are able to come up with other reasons which explain the lack of popularity of BRP?

You mean the artwork of Paul Bonner? http://www.paulbonner.net/ Looks great. Better than a lot of the Chaosium stuff.

While you maybe somehow right in your idea that it is necessary to relaunch the whole BRP system to be a commerical successful, I think this is not so easy as it sounds. First I think that the guys at chaosium do great games, but lack merchandising skill. (eg. game design 80%, economy 20%) At the moment they found (succeeded their luck roll?) a source of income in producing CoC. But opening new markets is IMO not their thing. To avoid the risk loosing much money, they should leave this to other more adventureous or knowledgable (from a commercial POV) companies. Second there is already a small market for BRP. We at this forum belong to it. The problem is: many of us think that BRP is good as it is. No redesign is necessary (/looks at mediocre MRQ) Plenty of old but not well known BRP ideas and subsystems are already out there. But they are OOP and thus not accessible to 95% of the gamers. So just collecting them and showing them around in one complete book is a good beginning strategy IMO. If, and only if it seems that d100 gains more popularity, (I doubt this, but maybe I am wrong) they could still make a BRP2nd Edition some day. The base of such a 2nd new edition would be the coming DBRP. But at the moment the best way for Chaosium to go with the least risk and granting some (basic ) income would be the release of DBRP in Nov. 07 as planned.

yepp. The key in a rpg should be authenticity. I dont like the experience approach of most other rpg systems and therefore I never fully understood the philosophy behind XP. BRP feels extremely organic in its rules for experience. There are just 2 ways to gain more and better skills. Learning and practicicing. Of course its also what certain players would call "imbalanced", because one player if lucky can gain more skill than another, but that feels very realistic and like life itsself.

I would say MRQ is a kind of homebrewn BRP like andak...err... badcat already mentioned. I have played it several times and it is playable. But it lacks some fundamental BRP aspects, so I would rate it rather as a mediocre and not very well tested version of BRP. It seems that Matt of Mongoose was a little bit too overconfident in his own design skills. Obviously he is also very influenced by D20. Nontheless I hope it will be successful as a product on its own because converting MRQ material to the only and true BRP is easy. As far as I heard some of the new MRQ source books are very good and I think the more material is out there the better. Gore on the other hand is pure BRP. I like it but is it legal?

BRP? Wots dat? Well lets see: -roll under 1d100 -scaleable skills and attributes -SIZ (without it, no BRP) -deadly and realistic -multigenre (from cyberpunk to fantasy) -modular -resistance table -CoC kick 1d6 damage :eek: -melts with background -very simple -no levels and XP Dats BRP (at least for me).