theconfusingeel

I think a good way to look at gloranthan cults and gods is as archetypes, so Issaries is the archetype of traders, orlanth thunderous is the archetype of storms, orlanth rex the archetype of kings and so on. I think this is part of why the god learner goddess swap didn't work, those goddesses were archetypically the lands they represent, you can't really take them to another place.

The reason why tere's a unified SM cult is that the gods that are part of it participated in the rebirth of the RG, and as such they represent the start of the lunar religion, that's their archetype.To be part of them is to be part of the lunar way, which is useful to people living in the lunar empire.

So browsing the well of daliath I found two articles about cult compatibility which give specific details about cult relationships, but in the cultbooks we only the vague likes and dislikes section.
My question is if there's any other place that has this kind of specific information? Cause those two articles seem to be the only places.

I imagine chaosium wants to attract new players to it's games. Having to buy decades old books to play the game wouldn't be a very good idea.

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

I doubt that we will see anything substantively different on the trolls. The trolls in RQ Bestiary are consistent with Trollpak. We will get Gods of Darkness, and I suspect most will be what we're already familiar with from Trollpak and later Troll Gods. 

Well the darkness book will apperantly cover the exact same cults as Troll Gods(with the exception of Arkat who is replaced by Jajajgapa and possibly Inora) so I imagine it won't be that different from the old material

4 hours ago, Eff said:

Well, Yelm could go behind the skydome instead, which is impermeable to light where a star hasn't been punched into it. I'm fairly certain (YGWV) that this is how most people experienced the Sun in Godtime- the Sun came through Dawngate and left through Duskgate and spent night behind the sky, in the higher heavens. 

I think the descent into the Underworld is because the entity the Lightbringers Quest calls "Maggotliege" lit up parts of the Underworld, and so everyone native to the place knew the Sun passed, if diminished and dim, through the Underworld, and so that was part of the deal- Yelm goes down so that the Underworld continues to get light.

well my interpretation would be that night appeared after Yelm died, with Xentha appearing around then(thought day didn't exist then).
in a more general sense, I think the great compromise-dawn myths represent the origin of cyclical phenomena in glorantha(days,seasons,ages) and as such I dodn't think the sun dissapeared from the sky in any way before the greater darkness. I know there's some stuff in the entekosiad, but i haven't read that.

13 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

OR we discovered we needed to kill Yelm every day. We didn’t return to the supposed status quo ante. Hegel and Marx are delighted. 😉

he's also reborn at every dawn
What importance it has really depends on what the compromise was going for. It's possible that yelms dying and coming back to life happens so that xentha can mentain part of her rulership of the surface world, so that both darkness and light can be happy.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/chaosium/cults-of-runequest-series/runequest-gods-of-glorantha-previews-2019/
The water cult list was expanded with the major gods that weren't there previously, so I guess those are fully confirmed now.
Brastalos is listed twice thought
edit:it was changed back

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

I get the feeling they are separate gods because the Orlanthi call the constellation by the name of Lorion even though they recognize the Celestial River as Engizi (Guide p650)

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/l/lorian/
Lorion is outright called the sky river titan, the same as engizi

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

Manthi and Sshorg are Manthie and different from the Waters of the World (Ocean of Terror, Western Ocean and Homeward Ocean) - Glorantha Sourebook 2nd Ed p85 & p86

"Manthi and Natea have three children, two of whom
rule over the two deep Oceans of the Surface World.
Sshorg is the Prince of the Ocean of Terror, and he has
many descendants of varying power who can command
parts of the sea. "

There are sea gods that rule over different seas and oceans. The geneaology also has sea gods descended from Banthe and Sshorg
edit:
looking at it again, the waters of the world section mentions oceans withc are their own thing. Still these waters are ruled by sea gods, who are probably worshipped in a way similar to land gods.

9 hours ago, metcalph said:

If it were up to me, I would also have:

MANTHI - God of the Waters of the World.  Basically Sea version of the Land Goddesses

PHARGON - The Merfolk Ancestors.  Basically Daka Fal (We will have had the Knowing God repeated three times) but with blurbs for Por Janks, Er Gankst etc to get the founders of the Seven Kindreds.

ZOLA FEL  - The Lightbringers Book has two Hunter Gods so another River God isn't going to make me scream.

LORIAN - Which is how we get the Annilla connection.

Aren't the land godess equivalents the sea gods themselves? Like the god of the Sshorg sea is Sshorg, Manthi is king of all sea creatures, not of some place.
plus Lorian is Engizi and he's already included

9 minutes ago, Joerg said:

  

The power of water as it affects the drylanders (and more importantly the coastal dwellers).

 

 

It does seem like they're going to cover some gods mostly worshipped by mermen(like drospoly), so I think it's going to include merman perspectives too.
Either way to reply to your other comment I don't know if going off the mythology god list is going to be that useful, because it's based of what gods were included in the water section of the gods of glorantha book, and now that it's a separate book I think they're going to add a lot more to it(seeing that most of the other cult books have around 15 cults, and this would have 7 in that state)

22 minutes ago, g33k said:

I suspect a careful reading of Mythology and/or Prosopaedia will show likely candidates...  I see 14 above, across the 2 sources you cite.

I presume we'll also see Sramak!

I don't know if Zola Fel, Oslira, etc will be taken as a "sub-cults" or "alternate faces" of Engizi (who I suspect will be treated as the sort of "river-God Archetype") or if each major river will get a fully-independent deity in the book; I see "Oslira" in your list above, but the Giant-Cradle link with Zola Fel also seems like a critical element of Giantish mythology, so...

Possibly @Jeff will grace us with a Table of Contents <nudge,nudge> ... ?

there's actually 13, triolina is mentioned twice cause I copy pasted that from the article.
The first list is from a preview of the gods of glorantha book from  back in 2019, and there Oslira was separate from Engizi. It's possible that they might restructure river cults into one section now but who knows.
Also does sramak have a cult? he seems more import genealogically to me.

8 minutes ago, Brian Duguid said:

These aren't gods, but I'm hoping we'll also get a mini-bestiary for all the various sea races that were left out of the RQG Bestiary.

Maybe we'll get a "merpak" to go along with it.

3 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Daliath and Nelat figure strongly in other myths so would seem likely. Brastalos probably is just part of Magasta cult.

Annilla might go equally well with Water gods as with the Darkness gods. 

 

Annilla is part of the darkness book, plus it speciffically says Brastalos gets a writeup
"With the exception of the Invisible God and Jotimam, we have write-ups of all of these cults coming out soon. Including Sea Gods, I have write-ups for Brastalos, Daliath, Drospoly, Murthdrya, Nelat, Tholaina, and Triolina."
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/greater-and-major-gods/

Going off the well of Daliath the water book includes 7 cults(Magasta,Oslira,Engizi,Choralinthor,Dormal,Triolina and Wachaza), these being from the time there was just one cult book for all the pantheons. The greater and major gods post says that all major gods are getting write ups and specifically includes the sea gods, naming Brastalos, Daliath, Drospoly, Murthdrya, Nelat, Tholaina, and Triolina.
Now my question is, apart from these , what other gods could be included? I'm mostly curious because i don't think most of these cults have gotten write ups before and the water pantheon hasn't really been covered in detail.
 

Is Hon-eel worshiped in Vithela?

8 hours ago, metcalph said:

From the Guide (For example Cryptic Verses of the Yellow Calendar p745-746), I think it evident that the Blood Sun worships the Red Moon.  Yes, it was extant before the rise of the Red Moon.  Then they worshipped the Sun and had weakened magic because of it.  

The worshippers in Peloria (3% of Oraya's population according to CoR: Mythology p153 or 12k!) are Kralorelan migrants making the pilgrimage to get closer to their God.  They are accepted by the Lunars as being another facet of the Red Goddess.

As for Octamo, it's not clear whether it had existed before the rise of the Red Moon.  Since Vormain is such a secretive place, we don't know how it changed over time or even the history of its contacts with outsiders.

I remember that the blood sun cultists in Peloria were converts. The guide mentions this, including specifically a guy who teaches in the Lunar empire.
edit:
Is it possible that Octamo or the blood sun are verithurus(a)?
Verithurus is directly related to sedenya, plus there's it's sometimes regarded as female and sometimes as male which Octamo also does(thought you could say with verithurusa it's a case of different cultures interpreting the same god in different ways than  it being an actual trait they had)

Is the blood sun really Sedenya?
I remember it has some cultists in the Lunar empire, so I can't imagine it's just a regional identification.
Plus I assume both of these cults existed before the red moon rose

I was browsing the well of daliath and I found out that one of the vormaino gods, octamo, has a moon rune, whih caught me off guard because I thought only gods associated with Sedenya had it.
Does anybody know more about him? Or at least does anybody have any good theories about him?

also I hope I'm not posting too much on here,excuse me if I'm doing that

6 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

That depends. What you don't have is time travel. But the significant events and actors have established a presence in the Godtime / Heroplane / Otherworld.

As Nick notes, what you encounter may be masks, fragments, precursors. The battle between Arkat and Gbaji is the battle at the End of the World. Which are you (or which do you think you are)? Are you Arkat looking into the face of the Devil, fighting again at I Fought, We Won? Or are you Nysalor looking into the face of the Devil? 

That End of the World thing is coming again, too! Lots of opportunity to battle the Devil, and hope you are destroyed in the process.

Epic events can translate into myths, but they will have some place in the God Time framework if they do. Arkat's battles with the Bright Empire are also Vingkot's battles with the Dara Happan Empire. You can find Arkat there, and Nysalor.

I allready know that stuff, but my question was about a specific manifestation(Arkat vs Nysalor).
In a way I was asking about the opposite situation, time influencing myth, which apperantly can't happen without heroquesting

So what are lunar heroquests anyways? I remember reading somewhere that lunars tend to do new heroquests, but I don't really understand what that means.
Plus are there non-godtime heroquests? Or is that just the mortal world type?
 

5 minutes ago, Eff said:

That is a very good question, and it's one that probably has to be answered through play if you take the official story as definitive.

And what is the official story exactly?

If events in time don't translate to myth, In what way can you interact with these gods on heroquests? Is it that you can interact with the mythich reflection of them doing heroquests?
Reading other sources apperantly if somebody has a hero soul you can meet them on the hero plane, and Arkat encountered himself.
Edit:sorry if I'm asking a lot of question, I'm just curious about this stuff. It helps that I don't exactly know the limitations of heroquesting

so events in time don't have any reflection on the hero plane?
also knda dissapointing on the Arkat-nysalor thing, Orlanth-Yelm isn't as cool 😥

NowI'm gionna start this thread with something kinda funny, I thought about asking this earlier today but the forum was down, and while I was waiting I read some things about Sheng seleris, and at some point i went on some forum and midway through reading some thread I realised it was this place so I was like"oh, this is BRP".

Anyways, I wanted to ask if people can go on heroquests for lunar new gods? For example, is it possible to do a heroquest about something one of the seven mothers or Hon-eel did?
I'm asking mostly because I don't know how heroquests about things that happened in time work(and as a additional thing that just popped into my mind right now, could I heroquest Arkat fighting Nysalor?)

I should have really used a term other than destruction 😅
I guess my idea was that chaos is a force that wants to turn glorantha into itself, and so it wants to destroy it.

8 minutes ago, Ynneadwraith said:

And here we see some of the irreconcilable differences between the Orlanthi and Lunar worldviews. Is Chaos a part of the world machine, or an outsider trying to wreck it? Mostal probably knew, but he's no longer answering my calls.

It's funny you say that because I'm more of a lunar person too 😄I just have a diferent view on these things