cjbowser

I'm not thinking of a straight conversion, mostly trying to get a standard BRP character to be as close to the 4e character as possible.

OK. I wasn't sure what exactly you were looking for, so I just started tossing out stuff.

Ideally, I'd like to get group approval for the switch, and show up at the next session with character sheets, explain the new rules, and get moving.

I think this is key. After one session, bring up the fact that you'd like to try a new system. The world will be fundamentally the same, but the system will let you and your crew get more of what you're looking for. Then, let the inevitable discussion occur. I don't think player consensus in this case needs to be unanimous. It doesn't sound like it's currently unanimous on their opinion of D&D. If the majority are amenable, tell them that you'll have their characters reworked for the next session (or next month, or whenever). If any state that they want to be involved in the process of re-imagining their characters, let them. It sounds like you have several people interested in role-playing. Make sure to play up the character-centric nature of BRP. However, you should also allay the other players' possible fears by mentioning the combat, particularly its potential brutality.

At least half the group has mentioned to me privately that they're more interested in story over combat, and, while they enjoy the miniatures combat approach to 4e, they're much more interested in the more character-as-person oriented tasks of NPC interaction and persona adoption. One player said he was into RPGs as a "life sim". This was also the player whose awesome character concept was not something that the D&D system could adequately express.

His girl friend also plays, and has expressed a lack of interest in her current character, and a desire to switch characters to another one. The second character is something I think the new BRP rules would handle quite well, and it was her mentioning that she's more interested in this new concept that her current one that really got me thinking about switching.

It sounds like you shouldn't have too difficult a time convincing these two. Perhaps discuss it with them before you discuss it with the rest of the group so that you'll have advocates in your corner.

The rest of the players I'm not sure about. One is mostly there to hang out with another player (a long-time buddy) and kill stuff. His friend seems most interested in playing D&D vs. playing anything else, but he's also interested in other games enough that I might be able to swing him over. He's a paladin, and I might be able to win him over by describing the Allegiance rules.

It's not too hard to kill things in BRP either.

Honestly, I'm less concerned about the actual mechanics of the conversion and more about how to bring it up to a group in a manner that will get everyone excited about the game again.

One option, entirely dependent on your available time, would be to say you want to take a one session break from D&D, you'll even provide the pre-gens. For that session you run a quick BRP game with the players' D&D characters converted to BRP. Once you're done, get their take on the system after having tried it once, in a setting where they have little invested because they think they're getting session off from D&D.

This is my problem; I'm normally a mystery and character sort of GM, but the way 4e is set up, I find myself falling back on bad GM habits that I had thought I had outgrown when I was in high school. This isn't a problem with the game, but one with me and how my GMing style interacts with the game.

Everybody relapses. Just step up to the podium and say, "Hi, name is Charles..." and we'll all respond with, "Hi, Charles!" Then, the healing can commence.

Is it necessary to convert the characters? Perhaps if the players are shown some of the options in BRP, they might get excited and want to try something completely different.

The major cost benefit analysis to figure out is:

a. Are you and the players having a good time with D&D 4e? Sounds like you're not (for reasons outside of the system itself). What about them? Are they up for trying anything, or do they prefer to stick with one system? Are they enjoying the tactical minis approach that D&D encourages?

b. Will switching to BRP let you and your crew have the good time that you're looking for?

From my perspective, switching systems isn't a big deal. If you convert characters, that will be most of the work. Monsters are, to me, not that big a deal. A goblin in D&D is pretty much the same as a goblin in BRP, you're just getting the stats from different sources. The core world isn't going to change because you're switching systems. For certain iconic D&D monsters, you'll either need to convert to BRP, find an analogue that serves the plot purpose you're looking for, or wing it on the fly and see what happens (my personal favorite).

As long as everybody understands the system, which you can teach easily based on your comment about choosing BRP, I don't think you'll have that much work in front of you. One week you were getting your monsters from the Monster Manual and the players were using their daily and encounter powers. The next session you're getting your monsters from the BRP book (or wherever) and the players are using their skills.

For me, the system is almost unimportant. We use whatever system strikes our fancy at the time. It's the plot, character development, and mystery that we're after.

Without knowing anything about your campaign, or what you want to emulate in BRP, it's too early to talk about the various BRP options you can invoke.

An emopire ?

An empire run by really intense musicians presumably ?

It actually sounds like a lot of fun. I especially like the idea of the Incan style Dwarves

I hear the sons of the city and dispossessed

get down, get undressed

get pretty, but you and me

we got the kingdom, we got the key

we got the emopire, now as then

we don't doubt, we don't take direction

Lucretia, my reflection, dance the ghost with me

I'm sure you've seen some of the *impassioned* threads around here on whether or not rolling higher or lower is more desirable as a mechanic. A quick scan will tell you all you need to know about the merits of one version the other when it comes to skill checks.

That being said, and with the caveat that I'm not trying to re-open that can of worms and the post-script that "no, I don't run my game this way," there's no reason you can't use the blackjack methodology in your own games. Just like Wilt Chamberlin shot for 100 points, a character with 90% in his skill wants to roll as close to 90 without going over. You'd want to invert the Critical/Special/Standard/Failure/Fumble metrics, and sure that'd involve some math, but feel free.

YBRPMV. :thumb:

BTW, to toss out the obligatory "how's this for inconsistency in a game," look no further than AD&D. You want your stats to be high, but the best armor class is -10?

How about, instead of doing it as a Racial trait and add a new system to the game, look at the Optional Step Six from the new book. There are one of 4 packages that characters can choose, and each package grants a +20% bonus to tall the skills in that package at character creation.

That's what I did in my initial draft of the Wright Institute. If you want to see how it worked out, you can always ask for access to the playtest forum.

I'm sure some of you have played both BRP and Warhammer.

If so, could you give me a comparison of both, and why you prefer one over the other (I assume you prefer BRP???).

Thanks!

I've run both, although the only WFRP I've run is 1E. I prefer BRP for several reasons. I find BRP to be a more flexible system. One of the rules of thumb with BRP -- coined by Soltakss I think -- is that if you can do it in real life, you should be able to do it in BRP.

I have no problem with WFRP, but I've used BRP since the late 80s. The system has become intuitive and is so backstage when we play that it's like it's not even there. If I need to wing it on the fly, it's like muscle memory -- there's no pause. If I had been using WFRP for as long, I think it might be the same way, but the varying die rolls in WFRP 1E have always grated on me. I've owned WFRP for that long, but it never resonated with my groups the way BRP has.

and Fate Points are a brilliant yet simple way to allow generally low-powered characters the miraculous escapes usually only given to legendary heroes. But I think all this can be readily emulated in BRP.

See page 176 for Fate Points. They're there already.

Or you can try to run a Musket and magic campaign. I been toying with running a game set in the 15 century New world where the player would play conquistadors but the Native American would have real magic to counter the European steel and gunpowder.

That's intriguing. Would you allow the conquistadors to be backed up by Jesuit magic? Or perhaps magic stolen from the Muslims during the Reconquista and reapportioned for the Spaniards' use? Think of all the wonderful spells that might be buried in Al-Hambra or Corduba. The Bayt al-Hikma might have collected tons of works centuries earlier and as the Muslims spread, the works might have been dispersed. You could also have the "anti-magic" developed by Tomas de Torquemada when he was battling the "vile magic users" during the Inquisition.

It looks like Chaosium has fixed the snafu with In Search of the Trollslayer. While the page still mentions the "technical difficulties," I was able to download it successfully from My Account | My Downloads.

At 50 pages, it looks to be good value for the <$10 price tag.

And, no Elf PCs allowed in Ashes, to Ashes. And whether any even survived the Great, Earth-Shattering Kaboom is doubtful.

Barbarians of Lemuria gets the Conan genre right. :thumb:

Spoilers for Ashes to Ashes. Don't highlight the quote below if you don't want to read it.

What about the dozen or so living around the Starwell?

Anyone going this year? I'm trying to decide whether to drive down or not.

If I still lived in Ohio, I'd be there. Planning on going in 2010, though.

Hi all,

I used to really like medieval fantasy, but I guess I'm burnt-out now. (I still really like sword-and-sorcery, though*.) I would love to run a fantasy campaign for a few of my friends who have not roleplayed in a long while, but I just can't get myself to do it.

If you're truly burned out on fantasy, and can't get psyched to run a campaign, that will show through to your players. If you're not having fun, they probably won't have fun either.

I'm just tired of the same old elves, wizards, dragons, etc. My options so far include:

a) Running a (Mongoose) RQ Elric game because I find it really cool, but most of my players don't really care about the setting; or

Running a (BRP or MRQ) historical campaign with some magic blended in; or

c) Not doing it and playing something else with them. (Probably Shadowrun.)

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could maybe "reinvent" the Fantasy genre, or give it some new twist to revitalise it?

Here's an interesting take on fantasy, Ashes to Ashes. This setting might be similar to how you define sword and sorcery, but elves, dwarves, and halflings are present. They aren't all playable, but they are there.

For the historical setting, look no further than Stupor Mundi or Rome. My all time favorite blending of fantasy and historical, Mythic Russia doesn't use BRP, but it can be converted.

Have you ever been a "Tolkien burn-out" ? If so, how did you "cope with it" ? If not, what do you like most about this specific genre?

I'm not a huge fan of traditional fantasy, I do like to read traditional fantasy books but have always been more intrigued by low magic settings. Burnout can happen with anything though. Right now, I'm burned out on horror. When I get burned out on any setting I take time off. I go read and play other settings. After a while, I start wanting to return to the genre I was burned out in.

*I may be wrong, but I see Fantasy as what Tolkien and C.S. Lewis did,

I even see Tolkien and Lewis as writing in different sub-genres, but that's probably academic.

and Sword and Sorcery as more along the lines of Elric, Conan, etc.

That's how I see tend to define Sword and Sorcery as well. Have you checked out Barbarians of Lemuria? There's a two-fisted cat on here who loves the game. I haven't looked at it yet myself, although I do own it.

I much prefer Sword and Sorcery, but there's always at least one player who insists on playing yet another cute, ethical, emotional "High Elf"... Why not some hot Melnibonéan love?!?

Oh God! It's full of white...:thumb:

Will there be guidelines or setting seeds for a grittier, less anime world? Something more akin to Battletech and less Macross?

We would like to spend man lines to describe what is in this 220-page sourcebook,

Maybe that's why it's such a quick seller?

Ordering my print copy from Chaosium after payday. Can't wait to see it!

Haven't you seen House M.D.?

SGL.

Actually, I've never seen an episode. I imagine you working on Green Wing.

Got me scared for some time there. Had no idea what had happened or what I needed to do with it, but luckily something of all the stuff I tried worked in the end!

SGL.

I thought I read somewhere that you work in the medical profession? Note to self. Don't get sick when Triff's on duty...:eek:

Let me play devil's advocate for a second... >:->

I know. That's what I did with BRP Adventures. The quality (of binding) was poor, but at least it avoided the shipping cost and I got it fast. (And is it available non-PDF even now?)

It is available as a printed product. I have a copy. It might be out of print right now, but it does exist. The monographs are printed in very small print runs (50 iirc) via a POD printer.

On the contrary, I don't think we should ignore it. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to just whine and complain. There's a real problem here - a danger that we might miss out on the printed BRP books we want (well, I do, at least!). So we should solve that problem.

Question. Are you peeved because Chaosium has this practice (the practice of only printing books they can afford to print -- a policy held by most publishers ) or that they stated it in a public forum?

How about this: Anything Chaosium think is not "profitable enough to print", they could make available via print-on-demand. Since they'd have the PDF anyway, what'd they lose? And it might even make them a bit more profit/popular...

Would you be willing to pay more for that book via a POD publisher than you would if Chaosium had the wherewithal to have that same book professionally printed at one of their normal printers? By printing in bulk, Chaosium is most likely able to offer a lower price per unit than if they had to deal with lulu's or CreateSpace's initial price per unit before the author can put their price tag on it. I imagine the return on each book printed via a direct-to-customer POD printer is lower than on the books Chaosium has printed professionally.

Like I said, I'm playing devil's advocate. I have no insight into Chaosium's finances. I'm just going off of things I've looked into when comparing POD vs. actual print runs for some of my own stuff.

BTW, have you asked Chaosium why they don't use a POD service to get some of their books out there?

"If you want to see additional BRP releases buy a PDF now and a physical copy later. It's the best way to ensure BRP releases are profitable enough for us to print." - Dustin "O'Chaosium" Wright (here)

Is it just me, or does anyone else object to this?

What's the use of a publisher who won't print stuff?

With the acclaimed Rome available via Lulu, printed and delivered for only an extra £5.50, why won't Chaosium do the same?

I can see how this can seem objectionable, it seems like a new kind of ransom method. But I view it as Dustin doing something pretty rare in the publishing industry -- laying the cards on the table. The more you buy, the more money they have to be able to print books. I'm print sure Chaosium is a hand-to-mouth type of publisher. They don't have enormous cash reserves, so the previous publication pays for the current one. I'm sure a lot of other publishers are in the same boat, they just won't admit it.

It's not that they won't print stuff if you don't buy. It's that they can't.

All that being said, I'm not one who buys both the print and PDF copies of the book. At least not every time. Sure, I have the BRP product and BRP pdf, but those cases are few and far between. And I bought them when Chaosium did one of their fundraisers... I mean 30% off sales.

Sure there's lulu, but I've never been happy with any book I purchased from lulu in terms of quality. Maybe I've just had a run of bad luck because other people have had good results. Some friends of mine who publish through lulu get really good quality print runs when they mass print their stuff to take to cons. I always get crap, so I stopped trying. Plus, it would probably take more cash for Chaosium to stock X amount of lulu printed books than X amount of normally printed books.

A little fire-thread! >:->

And it's about SIZ and INT?

SGL.

We were bored and unsupervised. Just be glad we didn't have access to the server itself.

I copied the RPG.net review to the reviews section here. :thumb:

One of the things I thought while reading it was that it would be an excellent place to set Mhu Thulan for CAS style sword and sorcery. The magic level is lower than what you might expect (I haven't read BoL, so I can't say for certain), but can easily be increased.

If you're uploading three different file types for compatibility, would just a PDF or just an RTF work?

The maps are better this time :-)

Sorry about that. But when I saw the maps, the first thing I thought was "Oh no! Russian armor is pouring through the Fulda Gap!"

Jeff, I was glad I could be of assistance. It really is a good product. Hopefully you'll see some more sales. I'll be happy to take a look at Dust to Dust as well, when it's finished.

Has anybody been able to purchase this? I see that there's been five downloads, but when I try to buy it, I get "product does not exist."

There's a separate forum for play by post/play by email/play by skype. Maybe your adverts would be better served there instead of in the general forum.