Tindalos

I like the idea of people dating the God Time, especially since the whole idea of a lack of time before the dawn is primarily Theyalan in concept. Others dates may differ, but they at least keep them.

Plus, dating can be part of mythology, for example the Sumerian Kings' list, which has dates which make the Dara Happan reigns seem reasonable.

So in my Glorantha, for many peoples, time did exist, but it was different to the time post dawn (when they agree on when that happened), and contained many errors and contradictions.

1 hour ago, boztakang said:

Perhaps the Morokanth "Chariot" has its origin in a Hay Wain type contraption, incidentally adapted so a rider can hop on and snack while traveling long distances.

Just because the Morokanth "race" chariots, doesn't mean they actually have to go fast... 

Sure, short "sprints" might move at a reasonable speed, but the Main Event must be endurance. The pure entertainment value of a ritual 10k race/festival being played out over several days like a Cricket Test means I'll almost certainly shoehorn one into my Glorantha eventually.

Very true. A Morokanth chariot race may be like Japan's Ban'ei racing or Horse Pulling, with the difficulty of pulling the Morokanth in the chariot being part of the point.

I think the current idea is that the Morokanth cheated by finding them a loophole allowing them to graze instead of being forced to eat meat.

To Praxians, meat is a burden. Not only does it mean slaying a valuable herd beast instead of protecting it. It needs to be cooked, or else the mother of plagues will send her children to claim it, and cookfires can attract attention. By comparison, Morokanth can keep larger herds, making them wealthier, and can live without fire, making them safer.

To the other tribes, the Morokanth lost the covenant, and still found a way to win.

23 hours ago, Byll said:

Can anybody refer me to where there is a good RG / HQ write up of the Polaris or Polestar cult / tradition? I have a reference in Trade Talk 14 that mentions Fire (light?) and Mastery runes and a 'Captain Souls' spell and the Rigsdal template in the non-canon HW1 Storm Tribe source book, but nothing more recent.

If you don't mind fan material, there's always this write up for HeroQuest. I can't comment on the quality though, being a little biased.

36 minutes ago, Kim said:

I love Glorantha. I love its fans. I hate the collapse to low-budget & half-assed metatextuality that (it seems to me) is the order of the day now.

K

What do you mean by Metatextuality in this sense? Because the only metatextuality I can see in HeroQuest is the Beowulf Pass/Fail system section in HeroQuest 2, and things like it. And looking at fiction in the sense of game mechanics is an age old RPG tradition.

In some senses, we wouldn't even have RPGs if it weren't for people looking at fantasy literature and wondering how to simulate it.

In my Glorantha, Durulz and Keets are simply a case of convergent development. Like the many different origins for people and horses. Sure you could find some ancestral link, both being avian expressions of the man rune, so being children of Grandfather Mortal with various bird goddesses, for example. But they're not close kin.

Of course, IMG ultimately, the Durulz aren't that related to ducks. Their bills have lips, rather than a plate of hardened tissue. They have true teeth rather than serrated edges, solid bones, etc. They're closer to Hadrosaurs than actual birds.

Any evolution which does occur (such as those seen in trolls) is going to be saltation, rather than the gradualism described in modern evolutionary biology.

Any changes are going to be immediate and large. For example, the Horned Trolls would just suddenly be born with their impressive horns, and you wouldn't find populations of Mistress Race Trolls developing larger and larger horns until they're a recognisably different species. A sudden change, like with punctuated equilibrium.

Edit: Also of course, there's Lamarckian Evolution, as we see in the tale of Hippogriff.

@Steve There is at least one source that mentions evolution. Trollpak had a chart showing how the many forms of troll evolved from the original Mistress Race.

Of course, many cultures will be more likely to talk about things in terms of devolution. Of how animals and plants have become speciated through losing their connection to their ancient progenitors and becoming imperfect in different ways.

In some ways it seems like Prax's flora and fauna are a patchwork, with fragments of the Green Age being drawn together by Eiritha and Waha's magic to unite survivors. Perhaps these fragments are in fact the Heard Mothers; not just animals, but also parts of the land like their mother. While the Herds themselves are the children of the Herd Mothers, they also bring plants and other animals with them.

7 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I am a little concerned about an absence of parasites in Prax and the wastes, such as ticks, fleas, lice, bluebottle flies, horse flies (I would bet they have a different name in Prax, or possibly retain that name for its negative connotations?), and all the other critters that make living with herds so miserable and ask for great stoicism. Nomad life isn't the same when the beast shit doesn't attract lots of nasty buzzing darkness entities.

@soltakss I regard effects like Ronance's tracks as similar to the Hidden Greens, a temporal effect that brings back aspects of Golden Age Genert's Garden.

Parasites are mentioned in the guide, coming from the Maw of Mallia, along the Bleak Shore. I imagine Mallia may even be viewed as a monstrous perversion of a Herd Mother; bringing not fertile life, but parasitic and disease filled swarms, and noxious plants.

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Since Pavis was founded in the 2nd Age, you cannot go to the Godtime Founding of Pavis - there was not one.  What you could do is to figure out what rituals Pavis followed to build his city. Perhaps there was the Trading Blanket of Issaries in Genert's Garden where Issaries shows Genert and Seolinthor how to exchange items.  That you could reach.  But not the Founding of Pavis.

I'm not sure this is the case. We know post-dawn events can be recreated through heroquesting (see The Quest of Eringulf Vanak Spear). It seems entirely possible that the Founding of Pavis could be heroquested in much the same way.

Of course, that may be the God Learner in me perceiving the Heroplane as discrete mythological events linked in non-standard ways, describing mythical, historical, and impossible occurrences. The myths are maps between these events from one to another, and it may be that historic events when recorded as myth can plot a course through nodes in unexpected ways. Pavis exists unbuilt, built, and ruined within the heroplanes, it's just unreachable in any of those forms without the right myth.

On the gripping hand, it may be that this is simply because Pavis' city was a manifestation of the ideal city of the Green Age. As part of his plan to recreate the age, he built his city to be the first city. Is the city you visit in a quest Pavis? This ideal-city? Is there a meaningful difference?

Hard to say.

That does seem to fall under the role of Gold Dwarfs. The description given of them in the art direction was: "These are the mind of Mostal. They are teachers, and maintain the continuity of dwarf society through correct project management and indoctrination. This dwarf is wise, cruel, and versed in secret lore. He is ugly and grotesque, but still presentable to humans, and wears ornate gold talismans, rings, bracelets, as well as clothes designed to impress inferior species such as humans."

I imagine they're viewed by humans ignorant of mostali culture as nobility, with their ostentatious displays of wealth and instruction of the other castes. The dwarves themselves probably find this a useful fiction to perpetuate. Which is why Ginkizzie is known as the king of the Pavic dwarves.

I see dwarves as like post-apocalyptic survivalists.

They're dwelling underground in elaborate shelters, having survived the end of the world, and when they look out they see ignorant savages worshipping technology (to mostali eyes), giant cockroaches feeding off overgrown moulds and fungus (or as we would call them, animals and plants); and everything which  was once great, in ruins.

Exiled dwarves are thrust out into a world which disgusts them. They don't have access to purified food so everything tastes spoilt. Everything smells of blood and sweat, and feels greasy to them. And what's worse, no one else seems to notice or care.

Don't forget the diabolic Aeolipile.

An enclosed brass wheel, wherein is trapped a water spirit, who the dwarves mercilessly torture. They hold the poor creature above a raging fire, forcing the water spirit to turn the wheel, as it constantly tries to escape from the flames.

4 hours ago, Iskallor said:

I shall try and pay for my 2 pt strength training in Pavis with a herd of 20 meat Bison next time I'm there, should work until I try and drive them up stairs into the training room.

Of course there's also raw metal as an option, like the oxhide ingots mentioned in the guide. Equal in wealth to a cow, slightly more portable than one, although far less tasty.

To blow my own trumpet a bit, I've been working on a little something concerning coins, Orlanthi, and how they might have developed, which might be of interest on this subject. http://zzabursbrownbook.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/coins-of-sartar.html

Anaxial's Roster gives their GL name as Camptosaurus elegans, and real life Camptosaurs could work quite well as a base.

6 hours ago, David Scott said:

@Tindalos, for HQG I rewrote the Peaceful Cut so that it resembled a more traditional real world shamanic song. In this context it's a ritual (and therefore fulfils the spell criteria). It has the Death rune in front of the description as it's categorised as a charm and so needs the rune defined, It's part of the tradition so never needs to be noted separately.

Interestingly Daka Fal's Funeral Rite that you mentioned works the same way in the current version I've done - it's a shamanic song as the Peaceful cut.

Ah good point, I hadn't realised it was a separate ability. I'd been assuming it was what was referred to with "His initiates are known to use the Death Rune to send the souls of herd beasts to the Afterlife." Although that did strike me as unusually restrictive, so I should have known better.

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Every Praxian male learns the ritual of the Peaceful Cut. It is clearly a spirit magic - a release of the spirit for rebirth - but it requires knowledge and skill. You don't just take a charm and off goes the spirit.

Interestingly inn RuneQuest the Peaceful Cut functioned skill rather than a spell, and thus worked differently to other forms of magic.

HQ:G treats it as a usage of Waha's Death Rune; but I could also see it as a spell taught to all male members of the Praxian Tradition, as a basic part of the keyword, so that people who don't have the Death Rune can use it. Of course, no Praxian would view it as sorcery.

You could make similar cases for Daka Fal's Funeral Rite and Lhankor Mhy's Head Smashing Ritual as they only do one very specific thing; were taught to members of the cult (the Head Smashing Ritual even being taught to outsiders!), and functioned in a completely different way to spirit or divine magic.