kr0p0s

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

The old style Hrestoli concept of becoming a Man-of-All was to master (a skill of) another Caste. But then, in a caste society, doing another caste's thing will cost you Rightness.

Does this mean that in order to become a Man-of-All, a candidate needs to build up a good measure of virtue, and then use that up in the pursuit of achieving Man-of-All status unless she joins the Cult of Hrestol?

A Man-of-All would need to initiate into the cult of Hrestol to be able to fully follow the obligations of that path. I imagine it would involve breaking caste restrictions. Otherwise they would have to strive to be paragons of their caste to mitigate this. I imagine this would be difficult, if not impossible. But without knowing the full caste duties or restrictions it would be difficult to judge *ahem*.

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

I think RIGHTNESS will function like rune points for non-Zzaburi and Shamanic gifts for Zzaburi.

Expanded Intellect would solved the free INT problems discussed in another thread. Sorcerous versions of Magic Defense, Magic Attack, Power Within, Second Sight. Otherworld Pacts. Lots of awkward taboos.

2 hours ago, kr0p0s said:

Until then they are viewed as outlaws, barbarians, or even krjalki (monsters) by other Malkioni. 

As RIGHTNESS increases do certain castes gain increasing levels of magical abilities?

How far down does negative RIGHTNESS go? Does an individual at some point start to obtain negative traits such as Chaos features?

More, Invisible God specific:

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INITIATE MEMBERSHIP
Initiation into the Invisible God cult is a prerequisite for full membership in Malkioni society. Initiation follows several years of caste education and training. Each caste has their own set of rituals, 
Once a person initiates into a given caste, they cannot join a different caste – except by means of the Hrestol cult. 

CASTE RIGHTNESS
Each caste has duties and restrictions which must be maintained to remain a member of the caste.  This is represented by the RIGHTNESS characteristic for Malkioni initiates. Initiates start with a RIGHTNESS of one. RIGHTNESS may have a score greater than one, representing the initiate’s reserve of righteousness. If a character’s RIGHTNESS is less than zero, that character may no longer use any caste magic or special abilities and risks being thrown out of their caste and exiled from Malkioni society.
RIGHTNESS may be increased by adherence to caste duties and restrictions in adversity in ways that create difficulties for the character and make the game more entertaining. Examples include a talar refusing to perform menial labor even though their survival might depend on it, or a dronar refusing to touch a weapon even in self-defense. The gamemaster should not award RIGHTNESS for good dice rolling, simple puzzle solving, ordinary combat successes or any other of the minor accomplishments that might occur during the course of a session.
RIGHTNESS should be reduced by the gamemaster for transgressions against any caste duties and restrictions. 
For each circumstance, the gamemaster should warn the player that a given action will result in an increase or decrease in RIGHTNESS. If the player insists, then RIGHTNESS should be adjusted accordingly.
Initiation into the cult of Hrestol can mitigate this, as a Hrestoli initiate does not lose RIGHTNESS for any action that upholds the Hrestoli code. However, if they violate their caste restrictions in a way that does not uphold the Hrestoli code, they still lose RIGHTNESS.

EXPULSION FROM CASTE
A character with a zero RIGHTNESS characteristic is no longer in good standing with their caste and cannot use any caste special abilities (such as a talar’s Forced Command ability or a zzaburi’s ability to store magic points in the Spirit World) until their RIGHTNESS is positive.
A character with a negative RIGHTNESS may be expelled from their caste by their elders. If this happens they are no longer accepted as members of Malkioni society. If they can get their RIGHTNESS back to positive, they  can submit themselves to caste elders to be brought back (this is often called “Return to Rightness”). The elders may impose penances, fines, and other punishments as a condition for return. Until then they are viewed as outlaws, barbarians, or even krjalki (monsters) by other Malkioni. 
Some sects do not permit a character to return to their caste once expelled. For the Brithini, expulsion is permanent and always results in death.

CASTE RESTRICTIONS AND SPECIAL ABILITIES
Each caste has restrictions which must be followed to maintain their RIGHTNESS. Some castes have special abilities – magical abilities of the caste members. If they are expelled from the caste for any reason, they lose all special abilities of that caste. 

RUNE SPELLS AND DIVINE INTERVENTION
Unlike other cults, the Invisible God does not provide Rune spells, Divine Intervention, or allied spirits. 
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The concept of Rightness gives oodles of scope for role-playing a Malkioni. Really interesting reveal!

Jeff posted some more info on Malkionism and Hrestol on Facebook recently:

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HRESTOL
Hrestol was the Ascended Man, son of Froalar, last of the Secret Keepers, and of Xemela, He is the great hero of the West and was born during the God Time. During the Great Darkness, Hrestol prayed to the Unknown God, who sent the gods to destroy the Devil and bring forth the Dawn. A year after the Dawn of Time, Malkion appeared to Hrestol, then a noble warrior of Seshnela in the service of his father. With the wisdom he gained, Hrestol killed the goddess Ifttala, the daughter of Seshna Likita and mother of the Pendali people. Hrestoli died, was judged in the Underworld, and made his way back to the world of the living. He was banished from Seshnela for his crimes but accompanied in exile by the best of his people. Hrestol traveled to Brithos, Akem, and the Vadeli islands, teaching his insights to all who would listen.
Hrestol taught that the old Malkioni philosophies were destructive to man’s eternal soul and happiness. He taught how to achieve eternal Joy through unity with the Invisible God. Hrestol shook off the old limitations of caste that Zzabur demanded, in favor of the deeper truths of the world, and became the first Man of All. All modern sects of the Malkioni stem from Hrestol's original contact with the Eternal World.
Most modern Malkioni are lay members of Hrestol’s cults; comparatively few initiate to his cult, even in Loskalm. The cult imposes a stringent code on its initiates and demands that they:
1. Uphold justice and fight injustice. The Hrestoli ultimately must determine what is Just and what is Unjust, and fight for what is Just. This includes an obligation to protect the weak (especially women and children) from the strong, but generally excludes barbarians and the Elder Races; indeed this obligation is often celebrated by fighting monsters or Krjalk. Justice is considered more important than such virtues as Loyalty.
2. Sacrifice oneself for the good of others. A Hrestoli is expected to sacrifice themselves to uphold Justice.
3. It is the responsibility of mortals to make a world they can live in. This creed was formed in the early Dawn Ages when humans were weak and few. Its focus is always towards humans, their survival and later their dominance, rather than on co-existence or cooperation with the rest of the cosmos.
Initiates of Hrestol do not lose RIGHTNESS when they violate caste restrictions in the service of Justice. 
Hrestol is associated with Runes of Man and Magic. Initiates may sacrifice POW for Rune Points. Hrestol provides the special Rune spells of Dismiss Magic, Shield, and Spirit Block.

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Is this the model for the ascended masters? The vast majority are lay members with very few initiates and no(?) rune masters? He does provide some rune magic (two of his specials are in the common list, so presumably that is not accessible), but would be the motivation for the few to initiate to Hrestol - to follow his heroquest pathways?

4 hours ago, Nevermet said:

Sorry I wasn’t clear: Arbaga was an early ally of the Empire of Light against the local polities.

I was just riffing of metcalfs suggestion above:

"Looking at the dates, there's a rebellion in 387 by Arbaga who've been in the region since 378.  Palangio doesn't get there til 401 or so.  That's an extraordinary long period of time for the Bright Empire to send troops to aid a rebellion.  What if the main target of Palangio's army was not Herlalia but Arbaga's forces?"

Arbaga invites in the Nysalorian missionaries to cure the plague, realises their mistake, cant convince Fodluth of this, rebels and leads krjalki (Uz) to overun Sintith/Wesluk and purge them of Nysalorian influences. Arbaga issues an ultimatum to other city states - get rid of the Nysalorians or we send in the Uz to do it. Sintith and Wesluk have been devastated - HotHP doesn't mention them later when Lukae City (and tribe) unites the last peoples (specifically, Sostor, Sintinth, and Herilia). Of the other regions, only Heralia kills them all quickly (HotHP).

Four years later the Bright Empire sends a krjajki army down the Tigronior river (Aldryami?) to deal with Arbaga and his Uz army. They find Wesluk and Sinith devastated and occupied by Uz. But Herlalia, weakened by Bright Empire schemes before killing all the missionaries, ripe for attack and conquest. This happens, but resistance carries on.

The Bright Empire krjajki army is sent to Ralios to fight Arkat. Arbaga's krjalki Uz return to Ice Peak after devastating and looting Sinith and Wesluk, or follows them to support Arkat.

Not sure how behind the Bright Empire the Aldryami were at this point.

The battle at Kaxtorplose is mention in HotHP as a landmark battle. Hendrik appears with an army to aid Arkat and swing the tide of battle using a Great Leap performed by the Larnsti Seven Group:

"Later, the king got word that the foreign army was led by a great master swordsman who worshipped Humakt, and that with him were also many battalions of warriors who worshipped Orlanth. The king said, “We have grow lazy without foes for this year, but not stupid. Thingan has killed five swords already. Change horses and we will go to the pool to see more.”
At Er’s Pool the king saw that Harmast the Lightbringer was among the army, though he was not a commander or chief godar. He sat in the farmer’s seat at the warlord’s table. The king said, “Why didn’t anyone tell me this sooner? Sound the horn to muster sword, spear and javelin. Have the Larnsti Seven Group begin their chant, and tell Destorniskis the Jumper to join them.”
When the army had assembled the Larnsti Seven Group allowed them to all jump into the pool and to landwhere Harmast the Lightbringer was. The Hendriki army arrived in a most timely manner to destroy the cavalry of Nysalor, and deliver Orlanth’s gift of victory to Master Arkat of the Unbreakable Sword at the Battle of Kaxtorplose. When the Larnsti Seven Group collapsed from exhaustion the Ten Movers and Shakers, as they were called, were stunned into immobility, and killed by Aringor of Olorost, who had sworn to do that.
King Hendrik accepted the honors of the victory, but did not remain with Arkat."

So you have Kaxtor, the son of a god, fighting a desperate holding battle against a Chaos army with two of the great heroes of the age, Harmast and Arkat. Then Hendrik appears using a suprise attack to destroy Nysalors cavalry and swing the tide of the battle. Cinematic or what!?

18 minutes ago, metcalph said:

There's also the Slime Deer mentioned in Dorastor: Land of Doom p63 who are probably related to Pralori (their god was originally the Sleek Deer God).

Were not the Slime Deer a chaotic perversion created during the Greater Darkness?

40 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Another possibility is that Kaxtor originally worshipped and was a hero of Lhankor Mhy... 

As mentioned above the Kaxtori view him as “an avatar of the original and supreme God beyond the world of illusion”, so he would have strong Truth affinity. As well as, I imagine, strong Earth affinity from his mother.

What krjaki forces would Arbaga ally with to fight against the missionaries and forces of the Empire of Light? Could this be the first appearance of the Trolls of Ice Peak? Both Halikiv and the Shadowlands are distant. And this may explain why "Other regions are so frightened that they must choose to keep or kill Nysaloran missionaries in their lands". And why the initial target of Palangios was not Herlalia. The Uz were from the start implacable foes of Nysalors empire.

From the Sorcery Q&A page in the Well of Daliath site

"Please be aware that, Sorcery is presented to allow Lhankor Mhy adventurers to be created. Future supplements will detail sorcerers from other cultures and provide more details of the sorcery system. Some elements of the system will likely change to portray other cultures.".

I imagine the current system is just a brief outline to be filled in more comprehensively later on. A lot will change or be clarified.

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Facebook, quite recently.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RuneQuest/permalink/1875280079314649/

Nick Brooke: "It's not a fence, it's a sacred space. Did you end up inside the sacred space? Zap."

Its a SACRED space. I think all the gamey uses of it to fool people, such as double wards in a pitfall, making it an inch wide and long  etc are not in keeping with its purpose as a defensive sacred space. YGMV.

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Almost makes me wonder whether "kissing the bishop's ring" is a rite to store one personal MP into the storage device of the wizard greeted that way.

Oh, I like that one! 

21 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

By using the spell creation rules on p390, you could change Runes and roll INT x 3% as "A spell conceptually related to a spell that the sorcerer already knows". In a similar way, you would do that with Enhance INT moving to Enhance STR, DEX, CHA, etc.

The spell creation rules seem a bit too generous. When (if?) the full sorcery rules appear I imagine it would be a more rigorous approach, fraught with heroquesting peril. I mean, wasnt it this sort of thing that got the Godlearners *turns to side and spits* into all sorts of trouble?

9 hours ago, Frp said:

Horal (and Talar and Dronar) might not be dead. 

Do they dwell still in Brithos? That would explain why they offer no magic. Is this widely understood in Western society?

41 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

 

8 minutes ago, David Scott said:

As I said, the rules do not specify any particular requirements other than you pay. If you have the rules, I suggest reading the learning spirit magic section on page 253 (repeated and expanded in RBM page 106).

RBM says "Rune cults often teach spirit magic in return for service to a specific temple." 

My thinking was the more common spells and lower strength variable spells would be taught without too much quibbling. Cults special spells or your Bladesharp 6s would come with more questions and maybe a requirement for some service to the temple, depending on the temples specific circumstances. Apologies if I came over as a bit pedantic.

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

You learn cult spirit magic spells by either going to a shaman, godtalker, rune priest or rune lord (or associate cult's equivalent). Learning Spirit Magic on page does not mention any other prerequisites.

So it is a straightforward economic transaction, no questions asked. A Bladesharp 6 will just be handed out, no questions asked, as long as you have the loot? Temples and shaman are just merchants in this respect? 

5 minutes ago, Joerg said:

What is the rule for Lhankor Mhy cult spells? "All Detection spells" is a pretty big bid to start with. How many are there?
And then there are those Sages who use sorcery. Are they exempt from teaching spirit magic?

RQ:G p253 "Rune cults can teach any spirit magic spell known to their Rune Masters."

At each temple there will be a good variety of Detect spells available. With, say Sartar this may be quite extensive. You want some obscure Detect spell? There's a little temple in the wilds out past Alone. There's a note in the library describing his use of that magic. Head out there and have a look.

If the sorcery using Sage still has that spirit magic memorised, he can still teach it. 

All this talk of the mini-max economics of the purchase of Bladesharp irritates me slightly. You learn the spell by convincing your priest that you are worthy of the power. The temple is not a convenience store. That worthiness is dependent on many factors. You social standing, honour, exploits, the reason you want the magic for etc. Only a greedy or heedless priest would just hand the magic out for cows and land. Its all a chance for role-playing.

The learning of variable spells should always be incremental unless you have a very good role play reason for the leap, such as joining a heroquest, raiding Snakepipe Hollow or fighting Lunars.

35 minutes ago, Mugen said:

But do you let players that only bought Bladesharp 6 to cast it with 1 to 5 MP, or is he restricted to cast it with 6 points only ? 

I would imagine that all strengths of Bladesharp below your current one are available. If your MP are getting tight in a battle, you should be capable of casting a weaker Bladesharp. To represent your weakening ability to draw on spirit magic. Imagine the mundane applications. You know a powerful manifestation of Bladesharp. All you want to do is enhance your ability to slice through a leather hide on a work surface. If you cast Bladesharp 6, you'll probably slice through the table as well!

For reference have a gander at the picture on p360 GtG Vol 1.

Was just looking through the interview with Agathe Pitié at Geek Art (Interview | Agathe Pitié, French Medieval Punk - Geek-Art.net (geek-art.net) This picture was there:

Looks very like the Tower of the False Sun in Fay Jee.  Lovely pic.

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

The wiki is wrong here.

Is this something that will be clarified in the Sartar Book?

From the wiki:

1171 ST Lord One Ex creates Deadwood after being refused burial.

From this it appears that the dragonewt may have cursed the wood after its cycle of rebirth was interrupted or broken.