kr0p0s

Back in 2016 Jeff gave a snippet about Guilds

"And here is an excerpt on guilds:

Guilds

Gloranthan guilds are quasi-kinship societies organized around a craft or occupation. In most cases, a member is “adopted” into a guild. Guilds also serve as cults to their patron spirit or founder, and offer regular sacrifices and feasts. In most cities, one must belong to a guild to have the right to practice a trade, but the guild has some sort of collective liability to outsiders.

Each guild tends to be independent; belonging to the Redsmith Guild in New Pavis does not make you a member of the Redsmith Guild in Boldhome! In large cities, there may be more than one guild for the same occupation — Nochet is notorious for street fights between rival guilds."

Each guild a spirit cult to a patron or founder taking the form of wyter for the group. Each guild member largely worshipping traditional gods,  but revering the spirit of the guild founder or guide. They would be taught cults skills and possibly magic.

4 hours ago, Jeff said:

I've posted this before, but this is the Heortland master map. If something is not on this, then it is probably not canonical. If it is on this, it definitely is canonical.

So where is Derensev?

Really well written, with interesting characters and plot. I love the examination of an important part of the world of Glorantha and ways of dealing with it at the character level. Excellent short, but detailed adveventure!

This illustration appears on p34 of Pegasus Plateau. I assume it is in the Locaem tribe territory. But where? And what are the significance of the totem like carvings?

Is there a map showing the land controlled by the individual clans of the Locaem tribe?

I know @Jeff put up some sketch maps of some Sartarite tribes, but I seem to remember they were farther north.

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Largely because there are not that many people in Sartar who support themselves through full time hunting

So am I right in thinking that within Sartar there are no temples above site or shrine available for followers of Odayla and Yinkin, except perhaps at Wild Mountain?

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

Odayla has the greatest individual identity in Sylila where he has some 10,000 worshipers. He's only got a handful in Sartar.

Why is Odayla so underrepresented in Sartar? Too wild for the settled Orlanthi? Who do Sartarite hunters look toward? Yinkin?

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Destroy the land, change the story.

The Godlearners spring to mind. Seshnela, jrustela and Slontos. They had their magical geographical rug pulled out from under them!

Are there not Duck/Keet communities on the Wenilian Shore?

17 hours ago, jajagappa said:

If you think about it, Orlanth's magical "geography" is the Air.

To a certain extent yes. But his core territory is clustered around the sacred mountains of Orlanth. To quote the Magical Geography section in GtG:

Quote

The Storm God Orlanth is manifest atop his Great Sacred Mountains, and he is most easily and directly spoken with there. Worshipers within a radius of nearly 650 miles from either Kero Fin or Top of the World, for example, may magically commune with the god atop those mountains each High Holy Day worship ceremony. Those within a radius of approximately 165 miles of a Great Sacred Mountain can converse with the god on every seasonal holy day. Those within a radius of nearly 100 miles of a Sacred Mountain can contact the god each Windsday. Otherwise, temples must be built and consecrated beyond these regions.

Worshippers within in these radii can commune directly with their god wherever they are. This must be a powerful affirmation of their faith and strengthen their devotion to Orlanth. Outside these areas your are reliant on the priesthood to provide you with contact, and all that entails.

The section goes on to say:

Quote

Some scholars speculate that the proximity to these different mountains accounts for many of the regional differences found in the Orlanth cults across Genertela.

Presumably in the case of the Orlanthi of upper Nimistor within the radius of Selon there may be some significant differences from Dragon Pass Orlanthi, possibly connected to the piece of the Sky Dome that fell there?

The Guide is a goldmine of information. Having a look through and came across the info box and map on magical geography (GtG 296/7), giving the maps of the glowline and the spheres of influence of the Lunar and Orlanthi religions. The Lunar spheres being centred around Temples of the reaching Moon and Orlanths around various Holy Mountains.  Of course it explains a lot about the dynamic between the Red Goddess and Orlanth around Dragon Pass.

But, my eye was caught by the position of Mount Selon, right down on the end of the Mislari mountains. Very much an outpost of Orlanth. Although it does help to explain the history of the Orlanthi in the region, and why in second age Slontos "Many semi-civilized tribes remained in the southern reaches of the Arstola Forest of Maniria, clinging to their ancient Orlanthi ways". The initial shape of Kotor (second Age c700), with the finger pointing out along the Mislari Mountains toward Selon is also explained. I imagine Selon would draw pilgrims from as far away as the Salfester region being the by far nearest holy mountain.

A large part of what is now Solanthi lands and the Nimistor valley below Jaraz are not within a radius of a holy mountain of Orlanth. He can only be contacted at a consecrated temple in these regions.

• Would these temples have their own (lesser) radii, as the Temples of the Reaching Moon do?
• Would the influence of Orlanth be lessened as a result and the local population lean more toward other Lightbringers, Ernalda and local gods? 
• Would there be penalties for worship, POW gain, Heroquesting or Rune Inspiration outside the range the magical geography of a god?

What would the magical geography map for other gods look like? Would Ernalda be contactable more widely that Orlanth and The Red Goddess, except in areas of blight and chaos? Is it possible that we will see some further maps in GoG when it comes out?

6 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Bear in mind this was the Starter Set - it provides enough to start play in Jonstown while not overwhelming those being introduced to the game.

Given we have been given rules for wyters in the Bestiary, it's not inconceivable that Hauberk Jon could be fleshed out a bit more,  in terms of POW, CHA and abilities. Just to give the veterans some more examples of wyters.

I do get your general point though. More will be revealed. Given the relevance of heroquesting to the general direction of the game, I hope soon(-ish).

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

But the Malkionism of the Trader Princes is pretty much worship of Issaries (as an ancestor, so it is ok!). With imported zzaburi to give respectability (not enough locals to keep the numbers up - besides the imported sorcerers are better trained). This manages to keep the Trader Princes from going completely native. Although I expect the zzaburi are well paid for this gig."

---------------

Would the Trader Princes still be expected to adher to their caste restrictions as talars, generated Rightness and be encouraged along by the imported zzaburi? Thus they would not go completely native, hopefully. Though you can imagine some members of their House (clan?) running off and creating a scandal by going full Heler or, Malkion forbid, Mralot.

I have read recently that the worship of Issaries, Lhankor Mhy and Chalana Arroy were encouraged and spread within the Middle Sea Empire. Possiblly as a form of ancestor worship, given the direction of the discussion of the Malkioni recently. These cults would have be exposed to sorcery and integrated the practice within the cults within the Empire. After its collapse, survivors would have carried these practices to adjacent regions, especially Esrolia.

I don't think that sorcery "comes" from anywhere unlike rune and spirit magic. Malkionism is humanist and sees gods, spirits and runes as forces to be manipulated directly through the use of magical techniques and formulae.

The description of Jonstown in the the Starter Set is great. A very evocative description of the city and leading figures. There's just one thing missing. A writeup of the city wyter Hauberk Jon. It would have been interesting to see details of a city wyter and what abilities and magic they can use in support of the city. 

Are city gods, such as Pavis, the exception? Do most cities only have a wyter, supporting the Priesthood of the chief god of the city?

16 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Just found a source by Greg suggesting Kaxtor (and his city) have been around since the Great Darkness, with a suggestion that he reincarnates.

Kaxtorplose must have been one of the original forts built for the defense of the people. There may have been a band of survivors still holding out at The Dawn. Would Kaxtor reincarnate through his direct descendents, or by selection of suitable candidates?

Edit: he is mentioned in the past tense in GtG, maybe he only reincarnates in times of emergency in defense of his city?

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

 

 

I feel partly assuaged, but still, Knowledge is Knowledge...

They'd sell like hot cakes as PDFs...

On 12/31/2021 at 1:55 PM, David Scott said:

In Greg's notes, A General History of the Ernaldi, Fodalor quests and obtains the Sword of Wesmal, and in the Holy Country campaign, Kaxtorplos is called the holy land of Kaxtor, while Kaxtor himself is called the Unborn and Mouth of the Goddess. 

Where are these reference works found? Sound interesting and would be worth a read.

On 3/16/2021 at 5:25 PM, kr0p0s said:

Each caste has restrictions which must be followed to maintain their RIGHTNESS. Some castes have special abilities – magical abilities of the caste members

As Jeff implies some castes, I imagine any magical abilities will be restricted to Zzaburi and Talar castes. No goodness for the lower castes. Note the term magical abilities. This implies something more specific than a generic increase in intensity manipulation.

We shall have to wait until the powers above drip down some more juicy information. 

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

The Talar's Forced Command ability: why would it be restricted to Dronar? 

It wouldn't,  I was just giving an example. I imagine Talar could be able to command both Hrolari and Dronar. This couldn't be used on those outside Malkions caste system, since they are unruly barbarians and Elder races that cannot be exhorted to conform to RIGHTNESS. 

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

Simply having a max intensity equal to your rightness seems fair and proper.

I may be misunderstanding you, but only the Zzaburi, and possibly some Talar, have an understanding of sorcery. Hrolar and Dronar use spirit magic. They would have no use of the an ability to increase their manipulation of intensity. Sorcery is proscribed for their castes.

12 minutes ago, kr0p0s said:

The caste magical abilities will enable the individual castes to perform better - Zzaburi to deal with sorcery, Talars to lead, Horali to fight, Dronar to produce. You will have abilities that enhance INT,  allow you to command Dronar,  enhanced Battle skill, increase craft skill or output etc. This is all speculation, but I imagine won't be direct spell effects, just magical powers linked to their current RIGHTNESS. 

Further, its reasonable to assume that these abilities may scale with RIGHTNESS? As you attune with the expectations of your caste, your ability to express you caste ideal increases. Thus a Zzabur’s INT continues to be enhanced, a Talars POW with respect to commanding Dronar increases etc.

23 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Consider there exists a caste magic being the equivalent of Heal Wound or the spirit magic heal spell.  That's better than the sorcerous healing spell of Mend Flesh.  Which then raises the question of why don't the Zzaburi use that instead of Mend Flesh?  And if the Caste Magic is better than the equivalent rune or spirit magic why are the non-Zzaburi fooling around with spirit and rune magics?  Hence my feeling that caste magic has to be sorcerous in form and not just in name.

 

The caste magical abilities will enable the individual castes to perform better - Zzaburi to deal with sorcery, Talars to lead, Horali to fight, Dronar to produce. You will have abilities that enhance INT,  allow you to command Dronar,  enhanced Battle skill, increase craft skill or output etc. This is all speculation, but I imagine won't be direct spell effects, just magical powers linked to their current RIGHTNESS. 

Horali and Dronar will have access to spirit healing magical through worship of war gods and local goddesses. However, I imagine that it will be relatively weak. They won't have access to Heal 6, routinely. Except through a visit to the wise woman of dubious RIGHTNESS, out in the wood who whispers to spirits.

6 hours ago, Frp said:

Always being one failure away from being shunned by society, and the invisible one, fits the vision of Malkioni society I've built up over the years. Getting a free pass to break a taboo because you're got a couple points stored wouldn't. Maybe if you violate a taboo you should go straight to zero no matter how righteous you are. Or maybe players shouldn't know, and have no way of guessing, what their Rightness score is.

I like the idea of not knowing your RIGHTNESS score, and what point losses go with breaking taboos. You would have a rough idea of your RIGHTNESS from any abilities you have gained, but, depending on caste, especially the dronar you would always be worried about your RIGHTNESS. 

Jeff said "A character with a negative RIGHTNESS may be expelled from their caste by their elders." This implies a caste ability of talars to see RIGHTNESS and judge accordingly. If you can keep dodging the local talar, you should be fine!

On 3/16/2021 at 5:25 PM, kr0p0s said:

Some castes have special abilities – magical abilities of the caste members. 

This is what Jeff said about caste magic above. I don't think it can necessarily be restricted to spell effects, whether sorcerous or otherwise. There are lots of special abilities within the RQ:G system from spirit powers, cult gifts, heroquest abilities etc that can be described as magical. In that caste abilities derive from RIGHTNESS and following the strictures of Malkion they are sorcerous in nature, but wouldn't require any understanding of Sorcery per se. They are a manifestation of Law within the material world.