Alex

24 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Q: mechanically, how do your players know a certain HQ? Cult Lore? Rune Spell? Other?

YmechanicsMV, but I think it's definitely in the realm of 'lore', rather than of 'divine magic'.  Essentially what you're doing is:-

• Go to other side;
• Perform perform actions in a ritualised -- but also necessarily extemporised -- manner.

The first part is essentially the same as or very similar to a worship ceremony.  So it's the same skill -- or a very similar one, maybe in combo with Cult Lore and you suggest.  Again, the idea that gaining and regaining rune magic is contiguous with heroquesting as a procedure is useful here -- it's like a HQ, only you don't need to be a Hero, there's no Questing involved, but you go to the other side, and perform the actions of the corresponding myth -- but in as safe, controlled, and predictable manner as possible, because the result is so well-defined.

The second part is once more knowledge-driven, as you need to know the correct actions to perform in a given situation, and the inevitable variations on it.  Plus whatever is then involved in the resolution of each stage.

4 hours ago, svensson said:

As to the question itself, that's rather easy.

To which add, reduced credit for answering your own question!

39 minutes ago, Leingod said:

I mean, ambiguity can be fun, but I think it's a bit much when the sources disagree/are mistaken on who was reigning as king one year before the start of a typical RQG campaign, because it lists some guy we've never heard of as somehow having been king simultaneously for Blackmor's entire reign.

Both historically and in the light of certain recent political events, seems all too plausible!

OTOH arguably when we game we'd like the evening off from such stuff.

45 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

And for this thread I specifically want to talk about so-called "Hero-plane" and "Other-world" heroquests, i.e. when you actually leave the mundane world.

Noted!  But as I understand it, these are much less common, being either extremely deep or "high level" -- at this point you don't have a god complex, god has a you-complex -- or are the 'magic road' type, where your plan is to do an Nighcrawler in-and-out of the HP.

45 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

How do you trigger the heroquest voluntarily? I've seen it done with either a Rune Spell or Spirit Magic Spell that lets you "go through the threshold". I've seen it done with a simple Rune affinity roll at "some opportune time". I've seen it done basically automatically given "some" appropriate situation (whatever that is). What do you use in your game?

I think the fundamental technique is to journey in the appropriate direction.  If you're not physically journeying to the uttermost west to talk to a Daughter of Yelm that's really ticked off with you, are you really Westfaring hard enough yet?  Now, are there intermediate form between that and a 'practice'  SLBQ?  I imagine so.  Perhaps something that combines different elements of a magic road, a 'mundane' quest, and the deepest sort.

45 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Does your Glorantha have involuntary heroquesting? In which case, how does it happen? Is it automatic (gamemaster fiat/railroading), or is there more to it? Do your players have to be careful when they cast too much Rune Magic or when they quote a popular folk song about Orlanth while waving a shield?

Yes.  The highest danger is when you're in the Otherworld on "other business", and it turns into a heroquest by way of an accidental intersection with someone else's heroquest -- or indeed a deliberate such ambush.  Or I suppose, higher yet if you're on a different heroquest, and get drawn into an unplanned on in that way.  I that's all, if not Gospel, then Sayings of the Prophet.

Extrapolating, the "deeper" you get into heroquesting, the bigger the risk gets, so pretty much as you describe.  Anything that would work as an 'indentification challenge', essentially.

45 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

What kind of resources do you need to start the heroquest in your Glorantha? Can you trigger the heroquest on your own with two sticks and a piece of rope? Does a clan festival, a cult temple, some regalia, the right time of year, and other such things simply increase your odds of succeeding, or are they absolutely required?

For me, all of those things are quantitative...  but enough quantity has a quality all of its own!  Basically the initial 'target number' (translate to preferred system as desired) is huge, and you get big bonuses from each of those.  Also number of participants, duration, and another other magic resource you can throw at it.  But it seems that none of them can be in principle essential, otherwise we'll have to end up explaining too many exceptions, past and future.  If you have just two sticks and a piece of rope, I think you'll need a whole lot of 'your own'.  Maybe about three to six masteries of Skip Rope, say?

13 minutes ago, svensson said:

I'm the first person I know to come up with this, but I DON'T fancy myself to be all that clever. SOMEBODY had to have some up with it first, and I just don't know who that somebody is.

"If ignorance is bliss, how come there are so many pissed off stupid people out there?"

I dunno who was first -- especially as the following is a book of quotes, originally marketed in the UK under the QI quiz show brand name -- but here's some prior art...  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/102949/if-ignorance-is-bliss-why-arent-there-more-happy-people-by-john-lloyd-and-john-mitchinson/

2 hours ago, Kloster said:

It is (still) not, but don't forget that in 1918, in 1 month, H1N1 went to 'a bit more contagious than usual' common flu to a monster that, according to Pasteur's Institute, killed 50 millions people worldwide (for the record, whole WW1 is estimated to 18.6 millions) and then, disappeared in 1957, becoming the father of all seasonal flu viruses. I know, what I just wrote is vastly simplified, but it shows us what can become an uncontrolled pandemic.

Sure, and I should have added "touch wood" (and the accompanying gesture of the coffee table and the head) when I said that -- I'll fix that omission now!  But actual virologist academics have gone on record as saying that it doesn't appear to be likely to mutate so much as to be vastly more lethal (though it is a SARS-species strain, to don't take that to the bank!) or considerably still-more infectious.  But no guarantees on that, and no reassurance at all when it comes to next uncontrolled pandemic.  If that's a highly novel influenza, or an especially nasty enterovirus, adenovirus, or even "only" a rhinovirus, subsequent RTI outbreaks might not 'stabilise' in the way this one hopefully is starting to.

But human stupidity isn't limited to viral vectors.  That's what really pokes at my fatalism.

2 hours ago, RoadScholar said:

Hi there. First time poster. Be gentle.

Welcome!  I offer you a blanket!  Be gentle with us too, this is some fast and tricky bowling you're opening up with. 😄

2 hours ago, RoadScholar said:

I want a PA style landscape, so I'm already assuming the world has changed and is less 'epic/mythic', with a general loss of magic, in all it's senses, across the world. Other planes, easy access to spirits and direct divine interactions are all harder or gone, in ways that are too boring/intricate to bewail in detail.

PA as in Pennsylvania?  That sounds not just less magical, but a little bit "then it rains on Arrakis", too!  Which could be rather fitting.  (Greg was sitting next to a rather verdant English Midlands croquet lawn when he gestured in impromptu illustration of what the Fourth Age might be like, after all!)

2 hours ago, RoadScholar said:

King of Sartar, p233 "Argrath and the Devil".
So, Argrath then, and the Spider Spirit, and the other few which had survived, blessed the world and sent the good things which they had found out from their center and as gifts to the world of the living. And since that time, that world has been our world.

The bolding is my own. Pure conjecture, I know, but who are your candidates for the 'other few'? 

Now there's a question.  And how many is 'a few', anyway?  If this is like the Hindu "but how many gods are there really, O sadhu?" routine, then fewer wouldn't imply a drastic change as such.  So perhaps this is mostly an explainer for "... rune magic dun work no more", rather than a handful of the gods working as before, and the others gone completely?  Though of course it might be a combination of the two...

2 hours ago, RoadScholar said:

Personally, I'm assuming Trickster survives. Arachne Solara, or there's no one to write the Saga. Argrath himself [but not for a while] In terms of comic balance, I'm assuming Uleria [who seems to survive everything] as a balance to Trickster [in the role of death bringer].

Trickster's self-balancing in that regard already, of course.  He'll potentially kill anyone -- or fatally betray them, even better -- but he's even more likely to...  reproduce with them.  Or to keep on gamely trying, actual reproduction or likely prospects of such himself.

2 hours ago, RoadScholar said:

After that, I'm reaching. Of the things that aren't really gods, I'm assuming there's still [cosmic] dragons, and perhaps an Invisible God [I'm inclined to go negative here, but only to leave sorcery as much of a shattered mess as Divine magics].

The Malkioni are at least primed to expect everything to get an order of magnitude worse with each Action.  If their transcendent god is now even more inaccessible, it doesn't necessarily change the form of their religion perceptibly, though same can't be said for their magic, indeed.  In theory that'd be true of the Kralori draconic-themed religion, but one wonders if they were slow-rolling their 'mysticism delayed, but empire all day every day' magical take so much that it might not survive being hollowed out in that manner.  Or conversely, they just slide seamlessly from 'Draconic Realization with Kralori characteristics' to 'unreconstructed materialism with same'.

Or here's another possible cheesy plot twist.  The Great Darkness was once glossed (no doubt now post-canonically, and maybe straight from pre-canonical to that status, but for the sake of argument) as a little local Central Genertelan difficulty, and not to have affected the Kralori significantly at all.  What if the same were true of the Argrapocalypse?  If you were looking for a rationale for a Disney+-type apocalypse with a normative ending...

2 hours ago, RoadScholar said:

I also notice that the names of the gods [Orlanth at least] have not been forgotten when devoured by chaos, but that's another matter.

But perhaps emptied of their power in some way?  Now this isn't Earthsea, but if your deity is forcibly Deed Polled in some way that makes their existing rites -- and initiatory bonds? -- ineffective...

But if we steer into the 'every 600 years' thing as an ongoing pattern, then surely we're also looking for parallels from past Ages and parallel myths.  Don't we need a new -- or new-in-role -- Seven Lightbringers?  (And/or Mothers.)  What's the nature of the new Compromise?  Is it the "God Plane recedes a (big) step" concept in itself?

Ah yes, I see for example 1597, OT (and Prax) aren't Participating, but get -5 if they optionally Do that year.  Which makes conceptual sense, as it means they're less likely to be involved in the "main" event that year, and less likely still be involved centrally.  Which is logical, as Old Tarsh isn't involved politically, and is a long way away glorographically.

1 minute ago, Ryan Kent said:

I can’t tell which years you should roll for Old Tarsh characters. Sometimes it is not listed as being involved but then has a modifier.

Good spot!  Which years?

I assume this is here because of the "elective participation" rule on p28.  "If your Homeland is not listed in the Participating Homelands entry, you can skip the event if you choose. You can still choose to roll, even if your Homeland is not listed as participating."  So you may roll (or pick) for any year, but you must roll (or pick) any year Old Tarsh gets a mention.

3 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

There is also the matter that they'd be laying out two PDF formats, with different pagination (unless the layout has reserved spaces for images in advance). Two formats means twice the work put into the PDFs, and can you hear the uproar if buyers of the "B/W" PDF are then charged again to get the "colorized" PDF -- if they don't charge for the later colorized version then they are losing money on the product.

The way a lot of KS "reward packages" do this is you get advance "as good as we have right now" PDFs, but in a higher-priced bundle which also includes some configuration of the finished product too.  So there's limited extra work involved for the publisher, no loss of sales to people looking to get a perfect product cheaper and sooner (and then complaining when they don't get it, indeed), and no confusion of expectation.

OTOH, this isn't a KS, obviously, so this isn't something there's a general expectation Chaosium do.  It may still be more nuisance than they want to make for themselves -- at least some sort of content-checking before a version-freeze, and the mailouts themselves need to be set up.  And maybe counter-productive as people start yammering away about the product months and years in advance, as g33k suggests.

For this product I think best to treat as "that ship's sailed", rather than badgering them to change their sales and marketing this late on in a product cycle.  But maybe begging and pleading under separate cover for future products to be done like this, if people also want to pay extra for advance sight of the GMG, the Sartar Book, the Gazetteer, and whatever else might be in or adjacent to the pipe.

Another internet-rando-theoretician without any knowledge of Chaosium's decision-making process, though I think that disclaimer is redundant as implied.

16 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Recently I started to suspect, I reckon our small government loving elites are sponsoring this chaos causing propaganda. the more chaos the more ineffective the government, the better for them...

Yeah, the whole thread is political, in the strange world we live in these days.  What a time to alive!  ... or not, for the 4,550,000 people who ain't as a result.  (I find myself quoting that number semi-regularly on different parts of the interwebz...  And another chilling thing is that, amid the yells of "it's just a little flu", "only seasonal", "covid's over now", etc, it's not actually that number -- it's significantly different every time.)

But you may actually have just successfully dragged it back on-forumate!  Obviously these people are a secret(?) cult of Malia and/or Cthulhu worshippers!  HP, POW, and SAN losses all round.

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

If men can be initiated to Ernalda, I don't see why a warrioress cannot.

Sure!  This is pretty much reinventing the aforementioned Enferalda "aspect".  Or "sub-aspect".  Or just "take".  I dun wanna say "subcult" as that might be construed as having a grá for the absurdly salami-sliced version in Th*nd*r R*b*ls.  Which I do not have.  There's a whole menu of Ernaldan skills, Battle Magic (sic), and Rune Magic, concentrate on the ones that work for you.  Be they ever so whappy.

Or maybe the Bevera mythic role:  if you're a "combat medic", but not under either any the social protection CAs are under, or indeed their requirement to be pacifist, presumably you're fighting right up to the point someone else needs Healing, right?  So is the Healer with a minor in Warrior, or is that Warrior with a side of Healer?  Dealer's choice, I very much think, either works.

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Initiation is not a requirement for most careers.

I agree, especially as I saw someone elsewhere recently wondering aloud -- whether rhetorically or for their own information -- whether there was a place for Griselda in RQ:G.  There is, but presumably it's not as an initiate to any of the Otherworld-Botherers!

OTOH, I don't think even being somewhat counter-stereotype is an impediment to initiate either.  Some of that there divine magic is entirely congruent with being sick of your bullshit and about to smack you upside the head, possibly with a frying pan -- albeit not essential for that task.

18 hours ago, HeartQuintessence said:

We've discussed Runes, but what happens when Runes on a woman, are not typical. an Orlanthi might have a Moon Rune, and as  while women in Glorantha don't nessacerily menstruate (monthly, apparently depending on who you ask)- it does bring up the question: If you're a woman with non-standard runes how does this effect your life?

I'll grant you the celestialology of this is a little opaque.  Glorantha is very much the Land of Broken Moons.  Having a big ol' moon is pretty important to our thinking about mythology -- paging the shade of Robert Graves!  Doesn't the Slaying of Yelm sound like a Vast Lunar Conspiracy to eclipse the sun?  But doesn't work for the Gloranthan sky as we understand it, at least from how it appears in the Third Age.

And likewise "months".  They don't feature in the most-well known calendar, and the main "moon" really does not seem like a suitable candidate for that kind of, well, cycle!  But there is also the Tolat/Shargash planet -- arguably a "moon" by some definitions, arguably not by others.  It has a periodicity of 28 days...  and wildly unsuitable mythic associations.  Some sort of Fertility god, but fairly consistently a male one, it seems.  And there's also the Entekos/Dendara/Mostalf planet -- you've guessed it, arguably a "moon" by some definitions, arguably not by others.  She's in the sky for 31 days, and then in the underworld for the same time, and is mythically more female/earth/fertility-associated.

18 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Worst I think there is evil propaganda at work. From people who are not particularly crazy....

It's very hard to unpick.  I find myself getting drawn into arguments with some of these about how they can possibly believe -- or simply say they believe -- what they do.  OK, I get they think -- or say they think (OK, I'll start skipping this caveat, though it's what terrifies me the most) -- that Big Pharma is corrupt and conning them.  Though who do they think makes ivermectin?  Is the largest manufacturer of vitamin C?  That Alex Jones and Andrew Wakefield craft them with their own hands in a mom-and-pop-pharma outfit?  I get that they don't trust Big Government and the Deep State, etc.  But it seems to go way beyond those, though it requires and subsumes them.  The narrative -- or predominant trend of the roiling mass of multifarious narratives -- seems to be that every government, and essentially every medical scientist, doctor and hospital administration is in on the Fix.  And yet another part of the narrative is that if they get sick (OK, this is just the segment of the market that believes it even exists) and if they need significant treatment (... this will just be the segment that don't think "it's just the common cold") then modern medicine will help treat them?  How does you compartmentalise that tightly and not spend all day just winding and upwinding mental bulkheads?

Covid-19 doesn't seem likely to be a species-killer, but this sort of deeply paranoid Flat-Earther thinking might very well be some day.

On 8/17/2021 at 5:23 AM, Aycorn2 said:

The last time I played in, or ran, an RPG - Bush was president.  And I don't mean George W.

Gasps!  You're from an alternate timeline in which Prescott won the Oval Office in 1956? 🙂

1 hour ago, JonL said:

As a semi-related aside, I love than Lanbril is so sneaky that his name only appears in the Guide once, and it's not even on the list of gods. Just enough presence to establish his continued existence in the setting, but not one word more.

Lanbril be like:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6jYoagXmZE

44 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

Whoo hee, necro necro thread .

Yeah, apparently I'm a serial necromancer, and am on the naughty step.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm-4FmsfUAc

44 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

1) What if it a matrilineal descent, these despirate women claim various ancient women in the past, but give them some connector to each other.

I had originally figured that  Green Age sisters who settled in Dragon pass, the Carmine empire( Lunar) and future Dara Happen lands would allow for a good mix of women.
but how to go from those to full formed bloodlines?

IMO bloodlines aren't especially important in the first instance.  They don't have the same sort of legal status that clans and tribes do, they just sort of exist in custom and practice.  Largely because you have to track 'actually' too-related-to-get-married as against 'theoretically exogamous', and because every Theyalan clan is a 1000-person argument, so you get your second cousins to gang up on your sixth cousins.  Give it a few generations, you'll have bloodlines.

If a clan forms from a merger of a small number of refugee bloodlines or clan-remnants, it makes things simpler in the sense in the "“Karallan’s Plight" sense -- simpler compromises to make between the smaller number of different magical and mythic options.  But it's possible to do with any group of people, if their will, need, wisdom and magic is strong enough.  Just imagine an 300-player "session zero" doing the Clan Questionnaire by committee -- easy-peasy!  And as you say, what that'd likely look like it picking out common themes.  Women of the lozenge, oppressed since always, everywhere.  Recent history they have to agree to recognise a multiplicity on.

2 hours ago, AlHazred said:

I felt really bad that my crappy attempt at humor derailed an interesting conversation, but now @Scotty has made it all right again. Just as Indlas Somer intended! I just wish I'd thought of the "Pop Star Captains" title...

Sometimes the comedy needs to be workshopped.  Ideally not in the middle of a standup set, but WikiHumour is more my speed anyway.  "Some joke involving [X] juxtaposed with [Y]!  Where are my scriptwriters, I need rewrites here!"

And all hail @Scotty, truly the merry Trickster bonded to our stern-yet-just Orlanthi tribal king!  Just keep the latter handy in case David goes all Murderer aspect, like they're having waaaaaay too much fun discussing on another thread.

1 minute ago, simonh said:

Heroquesting is tricky that way. Maybe Eurmal didn’t know what death was and what the outcome would be, but how do you do a HeroQuest of unintentionally causing a killing due to reckless mischief? You know what the outcome is, so it can’t be unintentional.

The shrine of Eurmal the Scientist.  "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be research.  Woop-woop-woop!"  "The operation was a complete success -- the patient died.  Honk-honk."  "Within the limits of experimental error, results are consistent with our hypothesis that an acceptable number of people were killed!  Nyack-nyack."

27 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Clearly they must be braided into circles which curl neither clockwise nor counterclockwise as those latter two would demonstrate rebellious spirals!

Maybe two upwards-curling braids, inward-curving circular arcs in opposite directions for perfect balance?

This difference makes a fair bit of conceptual sense to me.  A style of leadership that's notionally more collective and consensual...  and no doubt ends up being even more quarrelsome and ruthless.

On 8/4/2021 at 10:34 PM, Merlin Monroe et alia said:

The biggest question I have before I can get started, really, is with what I might replace Pendragon's cultures ~ there's 5 in Pendragon mainstream.  So far I've had two sets of ideas ~ one socioeconomic (Urban, Suburban, Rural, Homeless, and Immigrant) and one regional (West Coast, Southwest, Midwest, Southeast, and Northeast).  Of the two, I'm happier with the latter, but I'm not certain that'sn the way to go ~ whadday'all think?

In a lot of systems, you could have both of those -- for example, in RQ:G (to keep it BRP!) you have your Homeland, you have your Occupation, and Cult, and each of those is like a small package of modular starting abilities and boosts.  So you might have, let's say, Social Class, Occupation, Place of Origin, and Ideology playing vaguely similar roles.

But I have to agree with the chorus of comments that Pendragon doesn't seem like a good fit:  is a crunchy combat system the sort of mechanic that'll be most useful, or are you thinking of more of a social contests type of game?

But you could look at systems like for instance QuestWorlds.  (Still keeping it in-house, Chaosium has bills to pay!)  Your socioeconomics, region/state/city, politics, would be keywords:  again, packages of abilities, but can also be simple broad-brush abilities in themselves.  Has rules for social and other types of conflicts.  Family history/political lineage/community rules you'd have to flesh out, but there's the structure for that, too.

Then there's other 'indie engines' like Fate and Powered by the Apocalypse, which might also be a fit, depending on your personal preferences and design objectives.

7 hours ago, simonh said:

I think there are probably heroquests where a person that could not normally give birth can become a mother, and thus prove their fertility.

Or apparently, in some cases 'merely' rune magic!  Which are of course in some sense the heroquesting Starter Box.

7 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Broo are definitely NOT healthy!

Sure they are.  In exactly the "that's a healthy-sounding cough"/"you're coughing well!" sense.  Not in either case healthy for you, but healthy for them!

On 9/23/2021 at 11:57 PM, Eff said:

That is, it's not about whether you experience pregnancy physically, because that's pretty inconsistent with an Ernalda that accepts Nandan and with the extent to which Ernalda has magic that plays with that experience of pregnancy to begin with and of course the fact that Ernalda's got authority over various things that do not reproduce by giving live birth through a physically debilitating gestational period.

This is Glorantha, after all, where the local version of Clarke's Law might be that sufficiently stacked magic is indistinguishable from physics! (Or indeed, biology.)  Tricky area, since we're kinda in the middle of a multi-year ruling on this from Jeff. The pause is preg-- eh, palpable.  (I'll get me coat.)  But sure, very possible this is not necessarily a strictly physical alteration and experience -- or at least that the definitive text we end up with on this leaves some residual residual wriggle room.

OTOH, being under Ernaldan authority doesn't necessarily equate to access to to full Ernalda enfranchisement.  A stalk of wheat surely gets the former, but not the latter.