Akhôrahil

15 minutes ago, Darius West said:

You sort of assume that Harrek would be a bad king.  Remember that Sartar is a barbarian kingdom that wants a warlord to lead it, and there are few greater warlords than Harrek.  Harrek is pretty much the Conan of the story, and Conan was pretty good king, much like when the barbarian Odovacer (aka Odoacer) first ruled over Rome.   As to killing Kallyr, what can I say?  Gingers have no POW stat and that means they're undead.

1. I assume that Harrek would be a bad king, yes. Psycho-killers typically don't make great rulers.

2. The history of Sartar is (perhaps surprisingly) not to any large extent one about aggressive external wars. Sartar himself is a builder and a peace-maker. In fact, parts of King of Sartar can be read as a comparison between Sartar and Argrath, where Argrath comes out looking awful. Sartar solves the Telmori problem through diplomacy. Argrath solves the Telmori problem through wholesale genocide and butchering the corpses for magic. 

3. As a Vingan, Kallyr's hair is dyed, surely? While you're right about gingers, supposedly you don't lose your soul when you dye your hair red?

I mean, so far it isn't more mundane, and if anything the Hero Wars are more epic and cataclysmic than the ends of the first two ages. But the Fourth Age will be more mundane, just as the Hesiod imagined that his own time was more mundane than the Heroic Age. We get to see some Fourth Age stuff in King of Sartar.

Hmm... if anything, the Age of Heroes under this model would have the First through Third ages, as the Third Age ends with Hero Wars, the banishing of the gods, and the start of a more mundane world.

I don't quite believe that your model is the main inspiration, but it's worth noticing that the late Bronze Age before the Late Bronze Age Collapse would correspond with Hesiod's Age of Heroes.

Once more though, this is leading to an exploding number of threads (and there will be far, far more soon enough). I suggest sub-forum, if for no other reason than not to clutter up the "main" forum.

14 hours ago, Steve said:

Does anyone know what this is referring to? Thanks.

Astronomy?

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

So you favor Lunar Imperialism over Sartar's (and every nation they liberate's) right to self-determination?  You favor the use of chaos monsters as military tools and the untold thousands of people who are fed to the Crimson Bat every year simply to maintain it as a Lunar Military Asset? Has it never occurred to you that the destruction of the Lunar Empire is caused by trying to make the world over in the image of Jar-Eel?  Argrath is simply the world's equal and opposite reaction to a force applied.  The fact is that the Lunars made a lot of enemies with their relentless expansionism, and karma's a bitch.

I think a lot of people would sympathize with liberating Sartar, especially after the Lunars misbehaved so spectacularly there (the Windstop, just for the worst atrocity). Everyone likes Kallyr, the chief architect of this. But Argrath is exactly as much of a ruthless, genocidal empire-builder as the worst of the Lunars, and without any of positive qualities of someone like Jar-Eel. In what world does placing Harrek (of all people!) as king of Sartar constitute "liberation" (doubly so as he had recently killed Kallyr)?

On 6/30/2017 at 0:38 PM, David Scott said:

It should be noted that Argrath isn't Mr. Nice Liberator. He's a rabid military genius hell bent on revenge on the Lunar Empire. 

Argrath is a decidely unpleasant person, with absolutely no concern about the devastation the wreaks around him. The people he associates with, like Harrek and Sheng Seleris, are among the worst people in the world. He's one of the primary causes of breaking the world, and is in all likelihood responsible for more deaths than any other single person of the Third Age. It only because we see him through ridiculously biased sources that this isn't immediately obvious, and quite frankly he doesn't look too good even in them.

A world shaped in the image of Jar-Eel would have been vastly preferable to the one shaped by Argrath, Harrek and Sheng Seleris.

The ground in the Doraddi picture is covered with grass.

It is cool to see just how close, but not perfectly so, the images stick to the art direction. 

That's what I gathered upon first read. It still makes for a decidedly odd image text, when it contradicts the actual image.

You take two poles, connect them in some way to form a frame, put a load on them, and drag them behind you by holding the upper ends while the lower ends drag on the ground.

It's not exactly efficient, but it beats carrying the load, especially as you have to bring the poles with you anyway.

That's my reading, at least.

(When used with dogs or horses, this kind of dragging solution is called a travois. For a human-use variant, see: http://www.backcountrychronicles.com/travois-game-drag/ )

"The Guide is a view of Glorantha from 30000 feet"

From the top of Kero Fin, then? :-)

Oh, and the Vingan painting is lovely. Even with its "female armor" of dubious protective worth. The sleeve style tattoos are nice. What's the metal of her bracelet? I wonder what the (supposedly Lhankor Mhy) Law-speaker thinks of the head-taking - it's a touchy subject...

A look at the pictures. They are all really nice!

Hsunchen: Very much a Sami look to the outfits of the Uncoling, as we would expect. Both of the outfits are fairly similar-looking, though - almost too similar for two different tribes, in fact, although we shouldn't be surprised that similar material factors drive similar manufacture. Among the things I Iike: The Bear snowshoes. The rune tags - those make a lot of sense, as it's going to be hard to get runes on fur, and they look amazing (prominent Bear runes on the Rathoring). The snow-goggles on the Uncoling - I didn't notice those until I looked closer this time!

The Rathoring has found, just like Harrek did, that you look silly in a bear-head-hat if you keep the jaw part.

The text piece starts the trend that we, oddly enough, get what I assume was the description given to the artist, which always diverges at several points from the actual image. (Among others, the Rathoring isn't wearing his snow boots, and I'm fairly confident those aren't snake ribs the Uncoling is wearing.)

Doraddi: You can tell that the Kresh are traders, as the woman has access to exotic things like fabrics. The runes are... embroidered, it looks like? This being Glorantha, I'm almost surprised that the belt is decorated with something other than runes, but it makes a nice contrast. The Arbennan's scarification comes through nicely. Note also the Air runes in his earpieces. The metal spearhead must be worth a fortune. Does he have a moustache, or is that just shadowing?

Baobabs (?) in the background. The vegetation they're standing on looks suspiciously like grass...

Praxian: The image is very evocative, but one has to wonder if it wouldn't have been better to have someone more representative in them? The queen is obviously of very high rank, and that can't be her everyday outfit. The warrior has exceptional metal equipment for a Praxian (the text says leather, but that's clearly metal, and I've already told about my misgivings about the oversized spearhead and axehead elsewhere). At least one regular Praxian would have been welcome, with more typical clothing and equipment.

This said, it all looks great. Unlike in earlier examples of runic wear, the Queen's leather skirt now looks like the runes are painted. Wings and horns on the hat - certainly no minimalism here! I love how the dagger grip forms a moon crescent.

Not sure why the warriors has that odd second little pony-tail at the top of his head. I wonder if his helmet (he just took it off for the picture, right, surely he has one, having full armor but no helmet would be insane?) fits over that hairstyle. No tattoos on the warrior, and in fact very little in the way of runes at all, only a few smaller Air runes (including earpieces, once more). Water would be more common among the High Llamas, but there's nothing weird about an Air-aspected guy.

Orlanthi: The trend of high status people continue, in a way I'm starting to increasingly mislike - we haven't had an average Joe since the Doraddi Walker. That said, the Esroalian hair set-up looks equal parts cool and ridiculous. Bare feet makes excellent sense. Being bare-breasted is apparently not mandatory. Standard Ernalda rune-set, plus Illusion.

The heavy Lunar influence on Aggar shows nicely on the Thane (at least if we imagine the Lunars as Roman-style, which perhaps we shouldn't). The pattern on his tabard seems like it's woven, which again is a nice touch, showing how we're seeing technology increases as this chapter continues. He must have a shield in order for that sword to work (and also for Weapontake), but I guess he left it out of the picture - it's not something you carry around in everyday use, anyway. Standard Orlanth rune-set, prominently displayed. When the Lunars ban Orlanth worship, is it only in Sartar, or throughout the Empire? Or is it just that the locals don't care and the Lunars don't enforce it?

What's that thing in the background, and why does the symbol re-occur on the Thane's chestpiece?

23 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I had mainly nitpicks about the Praxian clothing (and how the image doesn't reflect much of the text...)

I don't really like that image, it is probably the weakest of the Laubenstein ones. Praxians should be portrayed in the saddle - something the Sable Queen probably can't do in that outfit. Not even if she wears pants beneath that dress. 

Supposedly, it's some kind of ceremonial, non-mounted garb, and not the everyday outfit?

I had an issue with the weapons instead - they're very much "fantasy weapons". Both the axehead and the spearhead are huge! And the triple spikes at the back don't seem to serve any obvious purpose (a single spike is for armor-piercing).

2 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Another form of Orlanthi kingship are the sacred kings, who undergo sacrificial death after a fixed term of office, or who have to overcome a challenger or challenge to avoid that fate for another term of office. The Tarshite Illaro dynasty started as such.

That's the problem with Sacred Kingship - you put someone in power who wants nothing better than to make sure it doesn't happen...

Speaking of the picture, should we think of the warrior as a particularly successful one? His gear is loads better than I'd expect of the average guy.

9 minutes ago, Joerg said:

But clearly not the only correct one, if you look at Harmast's acquisition of the Kodigvari tribal markings that originally were Berenethtelli ones - that's a case of a mutating tattoo, without any inkmaster involved.

If the tattoos had to be hand-made, it would be a lot harder to keep Sartar runes secret, and there might even be wariness about literally marking someone for death at the hands of the Lunars with it.

I thought this section was... bland. It does give a good overview about things you would have to know in order to play in Doraddi society, but unlike the Orlanthi and Praxian sections, after reading it I ask myself "so what would you do as Doraddi character?" without having an answer. The combination of extreme conservatism and a fairly harmonious and peaceful society doesn't make for a lot of adventuring bait. Later on, we get both area descriptions and hints at the Hero Wars (I'm sure the New Artmali Empire is going to be well received...), but for now, the section isn't very grabby.

And while it's probably just a matter of limited source material, the Doraddi culture seems extremely monolithic for something that spans an entire continent. 

Lysus scoped me. Waha is totally a culture hero.

I always thought of thralls as clan property, but the text seems to state differently - they are personal property. I'm also intrigued that the text indicates that prisoners from raids is less common than criminals or debtors. How does that work? Surely you can't make thralls of your own clan members, at least for the clan itself, and there would seem to be limited ways to "recruit" thralls in those other two ways mentioned. Should we imagine that if an outsider is in debt to you, you go out and conk him or her on the and he/she wakes up as a thrall? Can you be awarded someone as a thrall from legal proceedings? Is slave trading part of the system? Maybe even selling your clan members as slaves (probably unusually common now that the Lunars are in charge - such a great way for pro-Lunar chiefs to get rid of malcontents). Making thralls out of outlaws would also seem to be one of more practical methods. 

Something I would have enjoyed seeing more of is the differentiation between various Hsunchen peoples. I'm not getting much help if I want to play, a Sofali character - the section is about the general, and I would imagine that the closer you look at individual peoples, the more differences show up (isn't it always like that?). Obviously there is a space constraint, but boxes no larger than the Rathori and Uncoling descriptions would have been helpful (as would have a "group photo" of all the various peoples). Also, as the section is so generic, it's not very "grabby" - at least for me, I don't feel a lot of plot hooks here. 

I also find the concept - brought up here about the Basmoli, but something we will see again and again - of Hsunchen people "evolving" (with heavy scare quotes) out of their traditional niche.

The language thing is gloriously weird. The God Learners must have loved it! :-)

"Wake the dragon" instantly makes me think of A Song of Ice And Fire, as it's something of a catchphrase for the unlamented Viserys. ;-)

Of course the ship has painted eyes. How else would it know where to go?

On 6/21/2017 at 11:33 AM, Joerg said:

I expect most Gloranthan healing to happen without overt magic use from the healer, but providing conditions that allow the natural magic of the living body to heal itself - bandages, splints, salves, ointments, fumes.

While I would normally tend to agree with this, the Guide indicates otherwise - that physical damage is routinely healed with magic.

p. 9: "Injuries are not as serious on Glorantha as they are in our world, for most physical damage and infection can usually be healed by one’s friends or family, or at least by someone local. This contrasts with life on Earth, where many people’s sole recourse for serious injury is to journey to highly-paid specialists found only in urban centers. However, the ease with which magic heals wounds means that violence is even more popular in Glorantha as a way to settle disputes than it is on Earth."

Page 2. Kickstarter backer "Yievan MaynensÃn" - this looks like a character encoding bug.