smiorgan

This is very true for RuneQuest (any edition): stats are expansive AND you still have to look up spells! In contrast I've always found the complexity of CoC, Stormbringer etc. very manageable. 

Interestingly, the original Magic World in Worlds of Wonder had simplified monster stats with the same value being used for STR/CON/SIZ/Hit Points. Maybe not the brightest idea ever, but there was the intention of trimming down complexity on the GM's side.

Paolo, maybe we are more in agreement than it seems. I think you express a sound point of view as a publisher. 

In fact, my emotional statement was more about tone than about content. I like to post here because it's a nice place and I felt the tone of certain conversations was becoming unpleasant.

Also, I wanted to start from myself. But edition wars do have many kinds of warriors: there are grognards, moaners, nitpickers and general smart-arses but there are also the self-appointed enforcers of corporate orthodoxy, the "heroic" publishers who expect only praise for their efforts and demand (!) support from the customers. I was trying to point out how easily we can become one or the other of these unpleasant characters.

There are very serious things I want to debate even if it becomes very unpleasant. I just did that at work this morning. But, rpgs are not one of those things. If discussing the relative merits of CoC7 viz. the previous editions is a cause of distress...well, maybe I prefer to let it go. And stress what I have in common with other fans.

Obviously, for publishers it is different. For them rpgs are (to some extent) a serious thing and they should listen even when it's not fun. 

(By the way, I also quite like D&D4. The game has flaws but also a very distinct personality!)

Hi All,

We all know about the "edition wars" between D&D fans. At a certain moment they were so bitter that rpg.net had to implement special policies against them. Maybe, in part - but only in part- they were a self-inflicted evil on the part of WotC, because of their marketing of 4E. But this is not important. Anyway at a certain moment some D&D fans felt the need of saying:

I've always thought we BRP fans were different, able to appreciate variety, non confrontational, more convivial and relaxed, and that formus such as BRP central were the proof of that. Well until recently... there is a lingering, creeping feeling of edition wars around here... and one has not to look very far to find signs of that ... it starts with yourself...you think that you are participating in a sensible discussion, that you are entitled to have your opinion, that you are just cracking jokes, that your remark is not only true but also clever...and all of a sudden you realize in horror:

THE EDITION WARRIOR IS STIRRING WITHIN ME!

So, I hereby renounce all edition wars and declare: I'M WITH BRP ANY EDITION

(Yes, that includes CoC7)

You see me now a veteran of a thousand edition wars
I've been living on the edge so long, where the winds of limbo roar
And I'm young enough to look at, and far too old to see
All the scars are on the inside
I'm not sure that there's anything left of me...

That was a JOKE! I like them too. 

Okay, okay Loz you don't tell us anything more, but remember to simplify those damn base skill scores! What the heck does STR+DEX mean? Do you think a newbie can understand it, let alone compute? 

That said, I'm off to the RQ6 play-by-post game I'm running for a group of Italian players. Dunno if it counts as support, I count it as a lot of fun.

I really look forward to what Chaosium / DM will release, especially RuneQuest (Glorantha) and Mythic Iceland!

Smiorgan  

OK, I think I know the "Has Chaosium died" thread you mention. Just to be clear: it was not here and was not started by me. I understand what worries you: excessive negativity damaging the efforts being done to rescue Chaosium. That said it is not fair to brand someone as whiner with an agenda just because they don't like CoC7 or hoped Ben Monroe could develop the Magic World line and are disappointed.

For one, I don't particularly like CoC7 rules (not that they are terrible either) and I'm happy the new BRP foundation will be based on RQ6 instead. It's just an opinion, it's not badmouthing Chaosium.

This is obviously good news for all. CoC is vital for the bottom line and is a huge part of Chaosium's history. Personally, I was more of a CoC fan twenty years ago than I am now. For various reasons, I did not get to play it in a long time and, for the moment, CoC7 failed to rekindle the flame... but who knows... 

Wonderful news! It's ages I don't buy physical books directly from Chaosium because of the atrocious shipping costs. 

Personally, I like very much that RQ will be Gloranthan and slimmer than the RQ6 behemoth. It will be a momentous homecoming RuneQuest, Glorantha, Third Age together at Chaosium! It something that does not happen since the times of RQ2! We had the brief season of the Gloranthan Renaissance with Ken Rolston in the '90s, but it was published by Avalon Hill. Mongoose was Second Age, etc.

Both BGB and RQ6 fans are already complaining for the demise of their respective generic versions. It is however a very wise move to keep BGB as print on demand and PDF. Keeping the past editions alive is really the way to go. Look at D&D classics!

If it turns out to be something similar to OpenQuest I will like it. I will miss certain traditional aspects of BRP such the Resistance Table and the experience system based on skill use. Chaosium flourished in the '80s with self-contained BRP games from Stormbringer to ElfQuest ... I hope it can happen again!

I will rush to buy this!

Well, I have already two copies, but...I will be tempted.

That's a pity. But, it's good that they decided to keep it available in print on demand.

All in all, interesting times ahead...

Honestly, nclarke, I don't understand why you say that people here were talking crap and are ignoring the truth. Especially in view of what Trif is saying about the same seminar you attended. People here were speculating that the new BRP could be based on RQ6 rather than on BGB. And now Trif confirms that. 

Also, I said that your report was consistent with what was emerging because it was as far as the facts you mentioned are concerned. 

As for the negative tone and passive aggressiveness: I don't know. I can speak only for myself, there are many things I quite like in these developments and a few I don't like so much. I think tha overall the tone of my posts was mostly positive and constructive. Also, one or two posts were jocular (Just to be clear, I don't seriously think the new BRP will look like D&D4 ).

I'm happy you had a great time at the Kraken. You're right: I should really get my act act together and attend next year.

Thanks for your report and friendly attitude. Apart the "crap" comment what you say seems pretty consistent with the picture that was emerging.

Rick, having you reading the forums from time to time and posting here is already quite something.

However, I dare to suggest you to hold a Q&A session on these boards about what's happening at Chaosium in the not too distant future. That would be really great. And I don't mean only BRP, but the more general plans. What kind of company we can expect Chaosium to become.

That would be great. We are all passionate but also quite a polite and friendly bunch...

Smiorgan

Thank you for posting here! Much appreciated!

I think most people here understand that you are still working on Chaosium's future plans. But, without a little bit of baseless speculation we would not be RPG fans! 

I agree, to me they are all BRP. And I am (unfortunately!) old enough to remember when Chaosium published a host of similar but not exactly compatible BRP games. Of course your inclusiveness may vary. To some Pendragon is a BRP game, and I'd tend to agree. I'd go even to the point of saying that the original Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is a clear relative of BRP. So, there are degrees of similarity and one can have preferences.

 Yet, with the new management there is a clear change of direction in terms of rules and publication strategy.

- The more "traditional" incarnations of d100 on the market - MW and BGB - have been sidelined.

- Also, the idea of a GURPS-like corebook with supplements has been ditched. Future BRP games, like Mythic Iceland, will be self-contained, it seems.

Some, like Nick, strongly dislike this development. I'm more on the fence I must say. For the moment the change seems a mixed blessing.

I guess they will also ditch special effects in combat and hit locations, the background events tables, maybe passions and all the advanced skills that are not in the professions they keep. On the other side they might add a 'modern' culture alongside 'barbarian' with another 3-4 professions, some modern weapons and equipment.

I like the three principles. Very modern, and yet perfectly compatible with traditional tastes,
Procedures (as opposed to resolution mechanics) are an often overlooked aspect of game systems.

One of the reasons Basic D&D (especially BECMI) was such a great gateway game is that it had very neat procedures, as opposed to AD&D1, which was a complete mess.

Yes, the formula is easy and you can do the math on the fly. Or, if you don't want because you are math challenged you look up. RQ3 also provided a nice table with precalculated crit and special ranges, In both cases the table is an aid, not a fiddly rule that you HAVE to look up.

It's not like, say, RQ6's big list of combat special effects that you just HAVE to look up, or learn by heart. Ooops! ... I forgot that RQ6 was a modern system without fiddly rules...

This. "Now, that RuneQuest is back at Chaosium the Gold Book is no longer necessary" is pretty telling. BRP Essentials will likely be a stripped down RQ6. The interesting thing is that it might turn out to be pretty close to OpenQuest and Renaissance as a result. Which would be a good thing.

The other realistic alternative is that they go the CoC7 route. But I hope they don't.

I voted WoW in the other thread, but I don't believe it will happen. I hope they will do a reprint, though.

Yes and no.

Characteristic rolls x5 and x1 have always been there, but they were much less systematized. They popped up in specific rules or scenarios and were explained each time as if they were a special procedure. 

For instance, RQ2 had POWx5% luck rolls, Take falling from horseback, page 52 "Armor will count if a luck roll is made (POWx5 or less on D100)"

And, again, in the sample adventure in SB1-2, "The Tower of Yrkath Florn" there is a secret door so "cunningly locked" that "the only way to get through it is to a saving roll (sic!) against the character's INT rating. (Roll 1D100. If the INT rating or less is rolled, they figure out how to open the door", page 121. Note that Ken St Andre here uses a Tunnels & Trolls term for the roll!

 Sorry Rod. I went over aggressive in my Resistance Table evangelism!

Sneak peek. Alketa M'aban. Pan Tangian sorceress. One of the 11 pre-generated characters in the Mournblade starter set.

She's smoking a little pipe...dunno what herbs are inside. Each pregen has a full-page color illustration.

According to her first-person narrative she fears nothing. Except the smile of the demons she summons. But she also loves that smile...

So, no hidden gems from the past...

That's the third example, at least in my Italian BRP booklet. First there was breaking doors open (with doors having their STR), second carrying objects of various SIZ from a SIZ1 hammer to a SIZ 60 triceratops (!).

Taking only arms wrestling and saying modern opposed rolls (which weren't in the BRP booklet) do it better may not be wrong, is well... partial.

By the way, opposed rolls are FINE. I just like to have ALSO the resistance Table.

For my generation it's obviously Pertini!

Meanwhile in Switzerland....

Smiorgan receives his copy of the gorgeous Mournblade kit d'initiation...

This French rpg has already won me. I'm not going to stop with the starter set. There's a high risk I will buy all the beautiful books and boxes they have put out.

If people care, I will post info on this game as I go on reading and hopefully playing it.

Some basic info. It's not d100. And is not to be confused with the French edition of Mongoose Elric.

They initially had some connection with Mongoose, but when the Mongoose license expired, they got a license directly from Moorcock.

http://www.multiverse.org/fora/showthread.php?t=30016

LOL! Gli eroi della resistenza. You will have to put the resistance table as an option for the Italian edition of Revolution.

EXACTLY. My post was not serious, but, given that a serious discussion has started, let me toss my two cents... I think Rod's post is a perfect example of getting the Resistance Table wrong. To elaborate on Nick's eloquent defense, RT (or its formula) is an elegat way to pit any two non-percentile values and decide which one prevails in a single roll. 

 So, it is well adapted to situations where, 1) you use a characteristic or resource that is not natively %, 2)  you want quickly a definite result without going through several rolls and narrating an extended struggle, 3) the greater value has a large chance to prevail and 4) the eventuality of both contestants failing is impossible or not important, 5) the values pitted are variable resources that increase/ decrease.

First of all the RT is a wonderful and flexible GM's tool and universal "saving throw" mechainc that lets the GM create monster or threats that attack any kind of charactersitic or resource with a given POT (potency).

POT vs CON (poison, sickness), but also POT vs. magic points, vs. hit points (maybe hp of a given location). You can create all kinds of funny attacks. Here is an example:

Worm of Doubt. This spirit creature destroys your faith pitting its POW 45 against your allegiance on the RT, if it prevails your allegiance score decreases by 1d6, which is added to the worm's POW.

One good example of the flexibility of the RT is when you pit a rolled value against a characteristic: rolled damage vs SIZ to determine knockback.

Also it's very easy to add the STR of several people trying to move an object with a big SIZ, and so on.