Tigerwomble

It would seem that the grimness is there in the setting, but may not have been overtly apparent in the games i've played. Sure there was violence and chaos etc. But there was never that Lovecraftian sense of dread, forbidden knowledge and the cliff edge of madness that comes about when dealing with Broo, gods and Heroquesting etc.

Ahem to that.

One of the boons of Glorantha is how the Elves and Dwarves etc. are presented as entirely alien. Something that the likes of D&D fail to do, which just presents them as slightly different humans, but with the same psychology and expectations. This presents quite a challenge to anyone whose expecting their Gloranthan Elf to essentially be a good looking, agile female whose good with a bow.

I agree entirely with what you say. I suppose i've never played a Glorantha game that has pushed the boundaries of Sartarite xenophobia and intense violence. I'm also unsure how far that can be pushed before the setting starts breaking down. Some settings are designed to be dark, bleak and violent and have the structures in place to cope with the kinds of extremes that might be indulged by players. Also isn't behaviour that it too 'dark' in Sartarite society perceived as inspired by chaos.

I like the distinction between hopeful and naive. It's one I hadn't considered. What i'm getting at is how the story is presented, which is either the situation is 'the glass half full' (American) and 'the glass is half empty' (British). The story and outcome may be the same, but it's not what we do, but how we do it.

It's largely a matter of perspective. So the notion of right and wrong or 'incorrect' is a bit strong. I was speaking broadly to set a context for the question, rather than to make a definite statement. I do mention a film and film tropes, but I was talking more about RPG's than books and films. Although I still think that there is an optimism in presented American culture that isn't so apparent in presented British culture.

It's been said that difference between British fantasy and American fantasy, is that the British tend towards grittier, darker and less hopeful endeavours. Whilst Americans tend to cling to the 'hopeful frontier' trope. That John Wayne will overcome and that the cavalry is just over the hill. Of course Cthulhu is the exception, but that's the Elder Gods for you. Even with the end of the world in sight, Glorantha is essentially quite a hopeful setting. The Sartarites are a robust, life afirming people, who are gregarious and passionate even whilst under the Lunar kosh. Compare it to something like the Warhammer setting. which lurches from one grim age to another, arriving eventually at a time 40,000 years in the future where things have gotten no better. The grimmness simply never lets up. I'm British and I love grim, grit and hopelessness in my games. Which is why everything i've ever run, from classic fantasy to science fiction has had a little bit of Cthulhu thrown in for grim measure. One of my go to films when thinking of Glorantha in terms of feel, is Valhalla Rising (which if you haven't seen is worth a look) and is precisely what I try to present. I think it's still raining 30 minutes into the film and features a bleak, hard fought journey fraught with environmental, physical, mental and spiritual turmoil that tests the resolve of the protaganist. If ever there was a depiction of a Heroquest, this one stands out. So, can a darker Glorantha be presented without harming the essential character of the game?

You know who this needs, a savvy Pavisite who has connections in Pavis and who knows a man who breeds a particular hardy breed of black and white striped mules. Honest. Hand to Orlanth.