Sir_Godspeed

1 hour ago, Sheliak said:

Unrelated to Vingkot and his descendants, but looking at the Scouring Wind spirit (description: "Helps fight Chaos"), I have to wonder if it's related to Urox somehow... 

Can you get god-related spirits? (This is one of the points where my Glorantha knowledge gets extremely vague.)

To my knowledge, yes. Kolat was basically a spirit (he might still be one, I don't know what runes he's given in the games) and had to choose between his god-kin and spirit-kin. Then there are Kolat's bound spirits (breaths) which according to the book of Heortling Mythology are grandchildren of Umath, who apparently spontaneously spawned a goddess in his wake who in turn spawned them.

Yinkin might also count. Even though he's a deity for all I know, he is related to the whole Hykimi-complex wich can appear as both deities and spirits depending on how their worshippers approach them (the same is arguably true for deities as well, given how Praxian and Doraddi mythologies work).

 

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

This probably explains why they seem so out of place compared to the rest of the world. When Argrath et consortes turn up in Red Cow, you can't help but go "these guys are weirdos!" It's like they come from a different Glorantha than everyone else.

It's a bit like when in Vanilla World of Warcraft, when you were leveling up a human warrior in Elwynn Forest, hacking at goblins and murlocs with your crappy iron sword, but then suddenly a lvl. 60 toon swoops by on an epic amored charger mount with glowing eyes, armor that glows golden, and a freakin Windfury epic blade, and shoulderpads that shouldn't even be physically possible.

Gives you something to strive towards, if nothing else.

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

He's not the only one of Argrath's companions that goes that way, either. Although to be fair, if any of us were making companions for that munchkin Argrath, surely we would be pulling out all the stops as well, making Arkati RuneQuestSight Sorceror-Warriors, Dragonfriends, and so on?

(In the Swedish RQ Facebook group, someone said of Sir Ethilrist that he seemed like a player character...) 

From my understanding of how a good deal of Gloranthan lore has been developed through cooperative play sessions, I wouldn't be too surprised if Mularik and Ethilrist and lots of other powerful, eccentric individuals were essentially player characters that later got "canonized" after they were used to "explore" a section of Glorantha, or a period of the Hero Wars or whatever.

I never got the impression that being a Vingkotling meant that you literally were a descendant of Vingkot. On the one hand the Vingkotling were a specific clan and dynasty, yes, but on a wider scale it was a reference to a tribal confederation/polity/empire which the eponymous Vingkotlings ruled, a bit like "Ming China", as it were.

Most Vingkotlings (in the political/ethnic sense) probably had no direct blood-relation to Vingkot, them being descendants of Heler, Durev, and other conquered or assimilated peoples.

Sorry if I misunderstood the debate, but I felt it was taking a bit of a overly narrow turn.

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

I'm afraid I can't recall. Will have to look through some books.

Ah ha - found it: The Coming Storm Volume 2: Mularik Ironeye - Arkati Illuminate. From Rindland, originally of the zzaburi caste and descended from Arkat with some Darkness blood. He is Illuminated and is a fierce warrior despite being a sorcerer. He has dark blue skin and ascetic features; one eye is made of iron, able to see into the Other World and view the world with RuneQuest Sight. 

I like that he sounds like some kind of Gary Stu payer character someone made up to be as awesome as possible :

"Uh, and yeah he's a warrior AND a sorcerer and he's like, um, descended from Arkat... Oh, and he has the Runequest Sight because he replaced one of his eyes with this secret artifact!"
"God damn it, Gary."

(Obviously, he's just highlighting some of the cool special things you can do with a character as you progress very far, so take my comment as the tongue-in-cheek jab it is

).

I can only send my best wishes to your mother, and hope she's being taken proper care of.

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

lmao in case people aren't aware of what he's talking about, it's that they are running a game jam that bans creators from benefitting monetarily OR from credit. that's right, folks, you can't put your name on the game you designed, a fact that is also true of the Wendy's™ game: it's uncredited entirely except for like two pieces of individual art. No designers here, just Wendy's™!

I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed nonetheless. As much as I dislike corporate "hello fellow kids" I thought the designs were amusing, and in my head I went "at least some game designers and artists got a decent paycheck out of this" - which is still true, but less valuable if you can't at least use it in your portfolio or something (I'd imagine, as a non-creative professional).

You could highlight RQ's morality system, which focuses on alignment to social institutions (clans, cults, etc.) instead of alignment to abstract moral concepts. I always felt that was a strength of non-DnD systems.

Push comes to shove you can sleep underneath the cart as well. Either by balancing it well, or by turning it upside-down.

Apropos of nothing: when I saw that (Cree?) word on the picture, my first thoughts were "That's definitely Adûnaic".

After some googling, I realized that the word "gapahuk", which I translated in my head to "bivouac" (which really means any kind of simple rest-stop), is probably more accurately translated to English as "lean-to".

Something like this (just replace the tarp with waterproofed textile or with leafy/piney branches):


Or more elaborately, like this, which addionally has windbreaking wall on our left (this time, imagine them sleeping on top of sheepskin, for example):



Parts of Sartar is not going to have enough wooden materials to make this possible - in which case planning, improvising, etc. is probably key.

In Sartar, using the landscape for partial cover is probably wise. Determining the prevailing wind or downpour direction, and choosing to rest against a hillside, cliff, or copse of trees that shelters against it is probably pretty common. Sartar's weather is fickle, however, so this is hardly enough alone.

If there are trees, or even brush, nearby, you can always set up bivouacs pretty quickly. All you need are two standing poles, a cross-beam, and several branches going down the back side, sort of like half a roof. In all likelihood, if it's a large group traveling, such poles are part of the packed equipment, maybe carried by whatever pack animals are part of the baggage train. Depending on the kind of vegetation, it might be more or less effective. I'm mostly used to pine which are quite effective due to the way the branches are shaped (Norway spruce for example has branches with a feathered pattern, which means that when you layer them for roofing, they guide water away and down, instead of letting it pass through - although multiple layers are recommended). If there are tall grasses or reeds nearby, that might maybe also be used. I'd mention banana palm leaves as well, but, well, wrong climate.

Similarly, I'd imagine canvas might be used. Canvas (ie. hemp), if it is available to Sartarites, is relatively easy to make large amounts of, iirc (although not to modern standards, I assume), and to waterproof. They might be used for roofs, of course, but perhaps equally important as walls to keep wind away - which is nice to have if you need to start a fire for cooking, dry up after fording a river, etc. The same can probably said for linen.

Woolen textiles can also be made waterproof - either by shearing naturally high-lanolin-containing wools (lanolin is a kind of natural oil sheep produce to stay waterproof) and using that in weaving - or by applying additional lanolin later (by desaturating another, different, batch of wool). I've been told lamb's oil is especially rich in lanolin, but I don't know too much else about that. Such woolen textiles are probably used more as cloaks and as blankets than as tents, I think, due to being harder to mass-produce than canvas - but I could be wrong. I think in many cases travelers would indeed sleep under the stars, or improvised roofing (like the pine bivouac mentioned above) and rely on their blanket for most of their insulation and waterproofing.

Lastly, treated pelts might help out. Again, probably more as individual waterproofing (as blanketing or as "matresses", perhaps) than making up tents (unless you're the Praxians or someone else with access to huge amounts of pelts around). I did a quick googling, and apparently there is at least one attested Roman leather tent discovered, so it's not entirely fantastical.

Also, in some cases, if it's a marching army we're talking about, I assume shields might be used in some capacity. Big, round or square, mostly made of wooden boards covered with paint or leader - they're unlikely to suffer from being rained on (unlike bowstrings and cutting blades), and might be good if combined together or something.

Well, Chaotic infestations are a good possibility.

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

brains are insane

That's technically correct... the best kind of correct.



Speaking of this kind of genre interaction: I've recently been catching up on Dragon Ball Z Abridged (the comedic parody redub) and there's a lot in there that reminded me of Glorantha. The flying nimbus (cloud as a flying mount) made me immediately think of a reward for an Orlanthi heroquest, for example.

Snufkin is some kind of shaman or mystic or something. Living outside or at the edges of society, and providing sage advice and clever tricks whenever needed.

That's terrible, I hope your mom is doing okay!

1 minute ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Are the Ralian Orlanthi non-Vingkotling peoples? I've heard suggest they're a meld of Orlanthis and Horse Riders who were Theyalanised - which makes sense given they worship Yelm and the Sun Horse as coequal deities right up there with Ernalda and Orlanth - which would make them also Vingkotling.

The issue is whether everyone who worshipped Orlanth (by any name) in the Storm Age were Vingkotlings. In my question thread on the Talastari, they were mostly agreed to not be former Vingkotlings, but remnants of other Storm People, possibly a failed invasion of Dara Happa or Pelanda, or having migrated around or across the Rockwoods at some point. They worshipped a Ram-god of some kind which seems to some form of Orlanth (or possibly a beefed-up version of Voriof, which would basically be Orlanth anyway). Then there are the Imtherites, who apparently are goat-herding Orlanthi in Time, but we don't know what they were in the Storm Age I think, and all the other Bull Storm people towards the northwest as Fronela and Peloria meet. These are more or less Orlanthi in Time, but seems generally to be accepted to have been some kind of Storm Bull people in the Storm Age (or at least a lot more cattle-obsessed than the Vingkotlings). And there is of course the Ralians, as you mention. No idea about them. Hell, you don't need to go farther than Maniria before you meet the Entruli, who are Orlanthi now, but definitely were not Vingkotlings back in the day either, as they were convered during the day from essentially being Swine Hsunchen, or possibly just Swine-focused Earth People of some kind. Or maybe they reverted to being that during the Darkness and they actually were Vingkotlings (possibly Durevings or Helerings) during the Storm Age....

So yeah, uh, not easy to tell for me at least.

2 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

He's got some uh lack of familiarity with the female form though.

Are you talking about the chest-zeppelins? That seems to be a common trope in South Asian temple art, so maybe he just replicated it.

I've seen the "Raksha Warrior" image shared around the web a few times before. Nice to know where it comes from.

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

i think they say as @Sheliak notes that Vingkot is their ancestor (I played a little last night). I'm always fuzzy on who isn't a Vingkotling.

To be fair, the situation at the time was probably a bit less clear-cut than it's made out to be in the "winter tribes and summer tribes" schema. We also know that they allied with/confederated various other groups, so there's a potential fuzziness.

15 minutes ago, Sheliak said:

Another interesting bit of news-of-your-neighbors: 

Duref has got to be Durev, the Great Carl: https://glorantha.fandom.com/wiki/Durev 

Yup, he was indeed carved from wood.

Interesting stuff. Also interesting that he is referred to as "obscure", since as far as I know, he is hardly obscure in the Third Age. 

This might be during the period when the Durevings had not yet entirely integrated into the Vinkotling confederation, and not yet syncretized their own (undoubtedly different) mythology with that of the Kerofinelan Vinkotlings proper.

Although, saying that, since this is well after the Flood, then I suppose the Durevings should already have been assimilated... Bah, I don't know!

4 hours ago, JanPospisil said:

So, good suggestions so far.

I wouldn't mind more info, if you were willing to type it out, or reference to related material. (like "this is that culture, similar to these cultures", present in this official/unofficial art etc.)

Normally I'd spend a bunch of time going through piles of reference to find something cool, but with these quick drawings I'd rather avoid that.

I'm going to try and help you along, though I'm a bit timid about stepping on Chaosium's feet or whatever, since the art direction might be going elsewhere than I have in my mind.

For the Carmanian Magi/Vizier I am thinking primarily of Sassanid clothing, but perhaps with some archaisms from the Ahaemenid period. There's bound to be Hellenic and Parthian influences in there as well, but I am not versed enough in the history of middle eastern clothing to really make a meaningful distinction. I go out googling for something that feels authentic, Gloranthan, and acceptably period-appropriate, just clarify where I'm at.

This stock image is based on a wall frieze that apparently depicts Shah Ardashir II, a Sassanid Emperor. Note the beard which fits well with Dara Happan (ie. Mesopotamian) styles, which makes sense, because we're dealing with cultures that have been influencing each other both in Glorantha and the RW.
 

Also note the tall hat. Something like this, although perhaps not this exact thing, could be used, since the Carmanian Magi/Viziers are the remnants of the pre-Carmanian Zzaburite caste, who have a caste-restriction to be the tallest people around. They must also have beards. Both of these are things that I'd imagine to have more or less survived.

Also note the trousers. Good and warm for the Carmanian highlands which doubtlessly get cold at times, and fitting for a cavalry civilization, although this guy himself may or may not be involved with that, who knows.

Then there is this Achaemenid robe:
 

Flowing robes seems like a sign of status to me, and one that this Wizard-caste individual would either be required to wear, or wish to wear to signify his station. It would be great if the trousers were somehow visible through a front opening in the robes or something though.

Here are some great hats, including stuff like Phrygian cap-looking things, crowns, and big ol' tall hats. 
 

I think it would be cool to maybe incorporate some militaristic aspect to the clothing, since I see some of the Carmanian upper castes (viziers, nobles) as buying heavily into the whole “glorious conquering people” schtick. I figured it could some in the form of a few things, such as a heavy, reinforced belt with tassels coming down, and torso-spanning leather straps that are similarly reinforced (or decorated to look like it). They might also have boots that are made to look like reinforced cavalryman boots or something. If the Carmanian Viziers have the same Judaic-style Kohenim breastplates that the Rokari Zzaburites have, it could be neat to have it evolved into a more actual-breastplate style, maybe with references to the balance between light and dark, and Idovanus that oversees it all. The belt and leather straps are also visible in the Ardashir picture above (barely), but here’s one below, of a female Cataphract/Clibanarius who has them (note the tassels on both belt and torso-straps):
 

Lastly, I’ll include this picture of an artist’s interpretation of a Sassanid princess, mostly for the great night-sky pattern on her dress. I thought that between this, the long beard and the tall hat, it’s a neat little nod to the classic wizard trope. But this is of course entirely optional, and if you prefer other patterns (or no patterns at all, since it’s a sketch) that’s up to you.
 

This entire post got entirely borked by the editor, so I'll rework it in Word or something. My bad.

A Carmanian Magus/Vizier? They're pretty cool.  Persian-inspired scholar-magicians with a syncretistic dualistic theism. I'd imagines robes, oiled and curled beards like Dara Happans, but with some of the more Hellenic influences from Fronela, maybe. Possibly long staff or maybe baton/wand. Themes of balance and law are important. Maybe scrolls or writing pads. Maybe, if possible, hint at some underlying militarism, because old school Carmanians are heavily militarized with a subservient underclass of commoners.

EDIT: Just came to think about this, and it's Orlanthi, but I decided to just add because - hey, why not.
Enferalda, or someone who is acting like Enferalda. Enferalda is Ernalda's Warrior aspect. She is Orlanth's supporter and one of the War Women.
So a female warrior Orlanthi, but neither Vinga nor Babeester Gor. I think it would just be cool to see how it would be interpreted. I kind of see her as a woman in her thirties, not a professional warrior, but someone decked out for defensive combat to support the champions and to keep the baddies from getting into the backline. Also surprisingly strong because, you know, Earth. Maybe big shield and some kind of mallet or mace or something, just throwing ideas out there.

Ralzakark is tripping balls.

57 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

female trolls are because they give birth to LITTERS, which they then breastfeed, so females are fed top priority.

male trolls seem to be more ripped than fat.

I prefer to think of it as "musclegut". Lots of muscles, protected by a thick layer of subdermal fat, and maybe the capability of storing excess nutrients for a long time, much more efficiently than humans can.

Also, I'd like to think a troll's response to being called fat would be "Why thank you, I've worked very hard on it."