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Sir_Godspeed

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Sir_Godspeed last won the day on November 6 2018

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About Sir_Godspeed

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    Sycophantic Contrarian

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    Some DnD, mostly video games otherwise.
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    None atm.
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    Norway
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    Very much a beginner. Mostly interested in the story- and lore aspect over crunch.

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  1. Sir_Godspeed

    Ernalda to Vinga

    I understand if some of the mods want this split off, if the conversation continues.
  2. Sir_Godspeed

    Ernalda to Vinga

    The issue is that Genert is frequently shown as "the father of theism", or said to have conducted the first sacrificial rite. His former area, Central Genertela, is subsequently also the stronghold of theism in Glorantha - ie. Theyalans, Pelorians and Pentans. He also said to be the incarnation of the male earth, the Earth God, the Lord of the Northern Continent, etc. "Gods" and "theism" kind of go hand in hand. He seems to be, at least from fairly early on in the First Age, to be implicated into the various Gods Age histories of the Theyalans and Pelorians as well, as a tragic figure and something paradisical lost. It's possible that this happened through interaction with Praxian allies or mercenaries, or whether these stories remained from Vingkotling/Heortling and Solar Empire/Hyaloring-Gamatae pre-Dawn/Grey Age memories. I don't know. Then we have Pamalt. We are often told that Pamalt is a god. That he is an Earth God. That he is the Lord of the Southern Continent, a son of Gata, etc. But, well... That's usually written in that semi-omniscient tone we usually get with God Learner-influenced lore. I think it is worth considering that the God Learners, or perhaps First Age Malkioni, were taking their understanding of Genert and essentially applying it to Pamalt because, well, it made sense, didn't it? Problem is, I'm not really sure if they ever spoke with the Doraddi, who claim to know Pamalt the best and most completely (and who have contact with the Agi, the original Immortal's made by members of the Doraddi Pantheon). I know this is another one of those "Yelm is a synthetic deity/the Lightbringer Quest is a later reinvention of the Lifebringer Quest/The different mythologies don't actually fit the monomyth because the monomyth is a Frankenstein's monster"-type issue, but I think it's a bit fun to poke around and question things. The Doraddi, from what I can see, do not really draw a crystal-clear division between theism and shamanism, nor do they see Pamalt as primarily an elemental deity (they seem to emphasise his organizational abilities first and foremost), and so forth. Some of this might be based on outdated material (Revealed Mythologies), some of it might be due to how the different cultures are textually emphasises or represented (Theyalan and Praxian cultures also mix shamanism and theism in somewhat muddy ways - game rules notwithstanding), and the Orlanthi also do often emphasise Orlanth's leadership over his elemental nature. So it might be a matter of perspective. Still - the best equivalent in the RW I can think of is this: when the Han Dynasty Chinese became aware of the Roman Empire, they sent some expeditions that (probably) reached Syria or possibly Asia Minor. The Han then constructed an idea of the Roman Empire as a kind of "antipodal", or mirror-image of the Han Empire on the opposite side of the world, and even named it "Daqin" (Great Qin) after the Chinese Qin Dynasty. The point is there that the Chinese were less concerned with factual reports, necessarily, and more about projecting their own political and cosmological ideas onto this distant area. What I am saying is that I suspect someone from Genertela did the same to Pamaltela. That being said - they might be right.
  3. Sir_Godspeed

    Orlanthi Weaponthanes vs Housecarls

    I wouldn't worry too much about it. This is mostly just people's different personal visions getting out in the open, as far as I've understood it.
  4. Sir_Godspeed

    Orlanthi Weaponthanes vs Housecarls

    I suppose something of alpine or Swat Valley origin could work, but this is all getting a bit academic. I personally like the Anglo-Saxon terms, because they seem to approximate things reasonably well (despite noted misgivings), it feels "familiar", as opposed to Graceo-Roman terms or terms from even further afield (although there is of course a Germanic/Nothern European-American bias in this), and it also, in a sense, implies to some degree the scale of these societies (ie. clan size and tribe size). Can it feel out of place when combined with Mycenaean acropolises? Yeah, sure, but honestly some of the bizarreness can serve as a useful "teachable moment" for introducing people to Glorantha, imho. "Yeah, he's called a huscarl. Yes, I know he's wearing lamellar and a bronze sword with a leaf shape, and his helmet is made up of Aurochs bones. Welcome to Glorantha." I would also argue that using Germanic terms is fairly aesthetically suitable for the continued insistence on using the term "barbarians" for the Orlanthi (a far more contentious choice, one would have thought).
  5. Sir_Godspeed

    Hastur the Chief Priest

    Maybe there's just a couple and he's the senior of the two? Pure guess. EDIT: Unless there is some regional thing, where Clearwine is like a "parish-center" for a collection of Lhankor Mhy shrines in other nearby locales - like a Lutheran provost (a priest that is normally a common parish priest - but also the administrative leader of a collection of parishes).
  6. I've seen about half a million for Imperial Rome a few times - including the immediate areas around the city walls, but I'm not a scholar or anything. That is a very high number though - Paris and London wouldn't come close until the Modern Era. Also, in terms of desnity - Pavis is clearly a massive outlier due to its (bizarre) origin. More like a city and its own integrated hinterland than just a city. Frankly it's astonishing that they had enough men to man the walls regularly. At least I suppose they didn't have to do maintenance on the walls, given their magical origin.
  7. Sir_Godspeed

    Orlanthi Weaponthanes vs Housecarls

    This seems a bit medieval-y too me. Does this mean that when the Clan hands out parcels of land (because only the Clan as an organized entity can "own" land), it goes "and then this guy will have to rent land from that other guy" (possibly because he doesn't have enough horses or cows to organize his own plow team). Or what is the process here?
  8. Sir_Godspeed

    Ernalda to Vinga

    Not natively, I think. It seems to be a name given to it by outsider, such as Western and possibly Theyalan explorers. It's possible that Fonritan and such have adopted the name later on though, but I don't think the Doraddi ever use such a term. Personally, I suspect it's an attempt by either possibly Storm Age Westerners - or First or Second Age Westerners to create a "antipode" to Genertela and Genert. I could be wrong, of course.
  9. Sir_Godspeed

    Ernalda to Vinga

    It's interesting, because both Pelorian, Western and Theyalans seem to use these sets of names (or use the same roots) - but the Vithelans and Pamaltelans seem to have entirely different terminologies (at least according to Revealed Mythologies), which seems to challenge the notion of a Celestial Court origin. Or not, I don't know. Glorantha isn't developed with the same kind of linguistic rigour as Middle-Earth (few, if any universes are), so there's a danger of reading too much into linguistic similarities or dissimilarities.
  10. Sir_Godspeed

    Fate of the ship if all Dormal initiates on it die

    I'm not sure if it's right to just think of this in terms of "the Cradle worked because it had so much power" - it's perhaps more pertinent to say that the KIND of power that the Cradle has is what made it able travel the seas. Giant magic is, perhaps, of such a nature that the Closing didn't affect it. The Cradle voyage as a "ritual" or "heroquest" in itself cannot be denied by any curse or sorcerous spell because it is woven too deep into the fabric of Glorantha. One could argue that this seems counterintuitive to the seemingly mundane means with which it can be stopped in Zola Fel, but personally I think it fits quite nicely. Just a thought.
  11. Sir_Godspeed

    Ernalda to Vinga

    Absolutely possible. I was more hinting at the possibility that the current Gloranthan notions of masculinity and femininity are influenced by post-God War perspectives. Who knows.
  12. Oh, I am very much aware - and I welcome it. However, I'd hope that there is still some space for Northern Europe inbetween all this Mediterranean-Middle-Eastern-South-Asian stuff. Not just Iron Age Germanic houses, but other traditions, like, say, Crannogs. On an intellectual level, I understand you, definitely. However, on a "lived life" or "lifeworld" (to borrow some terms from anthropology) I struggle. Put another way: I have an easier time to "grok" the frustration and anger that comes with seeing Erebor plundered by Smaug and the peoples there spread across Middle-Earth, than I have with the more abstract "The World Machine broke and things are all out of order". Dwarves are said to abhor sexual reproduction, they find normal food disgusting, they generally hate going outside their underground cities, they seem to view other species almost like the Vadeli - as tools to be manipulated or matter to be exploited. They have virtually no social mobility in their own society. It rather seems like if everything went correctly - from the Decamonic point of view - they would not be in contact with anyone else at all. I struggle, in this sense, to put myself in the mental headspace of a Dwarf and think about what drives them, what motivates them, not just in general, but in its particularities. Now, if the answer is that we're not supposed to view the Dwarves like that - then fine - but again, that leaves them uninteresting to me, quite like the distant angels of Arraz, or the various other absentee entities of Glorantha. (I freely admit to bringing Dwarf biases from other fantasy settings.)
  13. Sir_Godspeed

    Ernalda to Vinga

    Well, there is some issue on whether Pamalt truly is the equivalent of Genert, or whether that is a God Learner interpretation made in the name of apparent symmetry and systematization. The Doraddi seem to hold other aspects than just that of the earth as his most important qualities (leadership, for one). Of course, that might've been true for Genert back in the day, too: he sure did attract a lot of followers. Genert's death, and a lack of a masculine Earth Husband does seem to explain, to some extent, why Ernalda/the Earth Goddess seems to be passed around like a prize trophy, though. Makes you wonder, if things had been different, if we'd seen an Earth King with Storm, Rain and Sun Wives. Who knows.
  14. @Jeff When you say that the Vingkotlings built their fortresses/palaces in a circular fashion, is this meant in an elevated position, or also on flat areas? Was there a particular kind of architectural style (in terms of decoration/construction method) that was utilized, or was it more varied depending on local materials or styles? I am especially thinking about the Cyclopean buildings style, with large blocks of stone put together without mortar, versus styles that uses smaller stones (like Great Zimbabwe), or even bricks (bricks seem more like a Dara Happan thing , due to being associated with Mesopotamia, but I might be off on that one). For example, I know of this Russian Bronze Age/Late Neolithic settlement that has, while not spiral, at least a concentric circle pattern. Would this be too simple-looking for Vinkotling architecture? Or something like this? Is this more Vingkotling, or more Early Theyalan? - Just to be clear, I am not expecting specifics, necessarily, just sending out feelers to gauge the varying trends of complexity and simplicity as these civilizations rise and fall over the millennia. Lastly, I have this question - does the new art direction preclude the kind of wattle-and-daub/Iron Age longhouse-style Heortling settlements we see in King of Dragon Pass, for example? I quite like that style personally, and wouldn't mind it being a viable type outside of the walled citadels, but the new artwork of for example Apple Lane seems to indicate that even small settlements will look more "Mediterranean".
  15. EDIT: Please pardon my response - I mistook this entire thread for being new, and not just the latest post. Feel free to ignore this. It does help make the Dwarves more sympathetic - something which I personally am certainly very much in need for, given that the current Mostali lore is... not hugely approachable (no offense to the writers, I just "need" some emotional resonance to be able to sympathise and root for a race, and I can do that for Aldryami, Uz, etc, but I struggle to do so for the Dwarfs as they currently are presented.) Aren't there some enslaved Dwarves in the Brass Mountains in Peloria - or am I mixing them up with the Third Eye Blue?
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