Gallowglass

19 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

I'd attribute it to a similar cause, but different perpetrators: the Brithini of Akem, possibly with the assistance of mostali contractors from Nida.  Deforestation efforts as part of their Dawn Age settler-colonial project to subordinate the Fronelan landscape and hsunchen, which ultimately spiraled into its own front of the Gbaji Wars.  Circa 1620 there are still live, strong forests right up to the edge of the Glacier, like Winterwood and Rathorela.  Looking at the map, I'd say the forests are retreating from the Malkioni, not the ice.

This would also make sense, although I would then wonder why there is no history of Western settlement in the region. Maybe there was, but traces of it have since been wiped out? 

My explanation for why the forest still hugs the glacier is that in the west, you have the power of the "Elf King" in Winterwood, and further east the forest would be protected by the Rathori. But between them is kind of a strategic weak spot for the Aldryami. So maybe the Snow Trolls focused their efforts there, in an attempt to reach the rest of Fronela, where there is greater food variety. 

Also, according to the Guide, there were Dark Trolls living in the Black Forest before the Ban. It doesn't explain where they came from, possibly with Xem and Jonat. If they came with Jonat, they wouldn't have arrived there until the end of the Second Age, and by then Tastolar was already deforested. But if there already were Dark Trolls in Fronela, they could have been partly responsible for the deforestation as well. 

I recently read this article and found it really interesting. It defines a "culture of play" as a set of shared goals for player and GM to have at the table. Basically, what does everyone want to get out of this game? 

https://retiredadventurer.blogspot.com/2021/04/six-cultures-of-play.html

Keeping in mind that this is only one person's take on the hobby, it's still fun to read this and think about where Runequest fits within the system he's describing. I would say that the different editions of RQ and Heroquest facilitate different cultures of play, but mostly it's "Traditional." I think RQ actually might be the first "trad" game, because of it's attempt to model stories set in a detailed world, rather than just "win." I think RQG carries on this style of gaming, while bringing in influences from other cultures of play. 

1 hour ago, Garrik said:

2. Between 700ST (p. 132) and 900ST (p. 134), the Greenwood gets divided in its western end, into Winterwood and a stumped Greenwood. The region between them largely corresponds to Talostar (and the Black Forest). What happens here? Couldn't find a hint in the history & Fronela texts. If this is connected to some sort of forest withdrawal/destruction, it's on the magnitude of destructions of Erigia and Rist combined. As a political/magical/ecological development, is it somehow connected to the God Learners' empire and the emergence of Frontem?

Glad to have another Fronelaphile around! This is a really good question, and I can only offer conjecture. It seems unlikely that this would be due to one single, destructive event like the Moonburn or Skyburn, since there seems to be no evidence of that. I wonder if it might be the result of repeated troll raids over the centuries, coming from Valind's Glacier. I'm imagining a long, drawn out conflict between Uz and Aldryami, possibly with the intent of dividing Greenwood. Eventually, the Uncolings and Noyalings may have migrated into this deforested area, grown in numbers, and driven the Uz back to the glacier. 

2 hours ago, Garrik said:

3. North-east of Fronela/Greenwood, and north of modern Erigia and Eol, there is a big patch of land before the White Sea. This land is largely forested, and where there is forest there must be animals etc. This region seems to go without name. Is it Troll land? Are there Aldryami in the forests? Do the Uncoling and/or Eol reindeer flocks range this far (there would be actual tundra, ie. real reindeer land, at the shores of the White Sea)? Anything written about it?

I don't think there is anything official about this area, it's "Glorantha Incognita." I think a mix of Eol tribespeople, Aldryami, and Uzhim makes sense. If you can get your hands on Sons of Kargzant, they develop that area a bit more. 

Keep in mind that this “split” with the Telmori occurred over 1000 years ago in the timeline. The number of Pure Telmori may have been quite small at the end of the Gbaji War, but over the centuries they have lived in Ralios free of persecution (relatively speaking). 
 

The Guide also doesn’t explain what the relationship between Pure and Cursed Telmori is like. It may be that when the Cursed tried to take shelter in Telmoria, they were driven out by their kin. 

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I don't see anything in the story itself to indicate the sex of either Urvarna or Demarath.

 

I might be misinterpreting it, but in the story it says "The pair had been sleeping, but once awakened these Grandmothers brought the two together again." I assumed "these Grandmothers" referred to Urvarna and Demarath, but it could mean the gods, or someone else. 

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

From the Esrolia book, there is Nochet's greatest love story:  Norinel and Kimantor (p.29-32).

 

From the same book, there is also the story of Urvarna and Demarath (one of the few same-sex couples found in Gloranthan myths), and they in turn were the matchmakers for Gelstarn and Serumtha. 

Hello all, I had some free time and motivation so I decided to finish the recap of my last campaign (the Bardori saga) with two final entries. I ended this campaign almost 2 years ago, and then ran out of steam with the recap blog. There are some gaps in my memory with what happened. Thankfully I still had some notes left behind!

Anyway, I hope people enjoy reading it, we did have a pretty epic conclusion. Sorry it's 2 years late. Hopefully I can get my next campaign up and running soon!

17 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I wonder how it would be to Heroquest back and speak with Zzabur. Would he know exactly what you were up to, essentially having awareness of the future and the past because it's all interlinked? Or is he bound to act according to the Compromise as the theist deities are?

If it were possible, Zzabur might be completely incomprehensible to mortals, or just uncooperative. The same might be true for other figures like Malkion. So maybe the God Learners did figure it out, they just didn’t get anything useful out of those Heroquests. 

23 hours ago, Joerg said:

Drona's work is done, and he leaves for Fronela, or he has already done so earlier - possibly in search of his destined wife Frona, accompanied by his boar companion Bakan and by Eurmal (still a respectable deity, a teacher of mankind).

 

I like this theory, although my money is still currently on Drona/Oran being one of the Kachisti who arrived during, or after, the Flood. Mainly this is based on him being described as a "demigod" in the Glorantha sourcebook who married Frona, rather than a true god in his own right. My own current project has been trying to figure out the myths of the Oranor pantheon, and how they all fit together. I have more thoughts about this, but I don't want to derail the thread (too much).

23 hours ago, Joerg said:

There is no evidence for the Volcano being much of a civilizing influence in Fronela, despite Mt. Ladaral on the site of Sog City. Ladaral or Laddy is depicted pretty much like Solf is in Teshnos, lazy between outbreaks of intoxicated lust. But maybe Eurmal is to blame, when he stole Fire (and possibly intellect and culture) for Mankind. The Firebringer (afterwards outlawed and persecuted by the gods) and Friend of Men, Prometheus except that his role in creating men is hushed.

 

When I was trying to find the connection between Eurmal and Lodril, the only reference I could remember was the Trickster stealing Lodril's fire in the Underworld, during the Lightbringer's Quest. I don't even remember where I read this now though. Having the theft of fire occur way before the LBQ makes more sense (although time is meaningless!) 

Here is a question slightly more on topic with the rest of Joerg's original post. Do any of the modern Malkioni of the Third Age know how to heroquest back to the time of the original Six Tribes of Danmalastan? Or really any time before the "Ice Age." I would tend to think the answer is no, mainly because the implications of this are kind of mind-boggling. A heroquester could, in theory, sit in the presence of Malkion or Zzabur and learn sorcery from them. Or re-create one or all of the original Six Tribes by learning their secrets. Or find some way to unify their whole religion, which I guess is what some of them try to do during the Hero Wars.

35 minutes ago, David Scott said:

There are no rune Lords as this isn't a martial cult.

Yeah that is a little surprising. Although, I guess I could understand how Shargash of Alkoth is not a martial cult specifically. More of a “Lord of Demons and the Underworld.” But Tolat and Vorthan from Fronela feel very warlike to me.

39 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Alkor gives Cremate Dead, Artmal gives True Sword, Anilla (Shargash's sister)gives Absorption, Hastatus gives True Spear,  Lodril gives Fire Spear, Oslira gives Bless Crops (Rice), Yelm gives Sunspear.

Very interesting! I wonder if they’ll get into the regional variations like Tolat or Vorthan. Outside of Dara Happa, he probably wouldn’t have Alkor, Hastatus, or Oslira as associated cults. But I also wouldn’t think they acknowledge Artmal in Dara Happa, right? 

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

 

I thought he had Crush as well, he does in my games.

 

I wondered if he would have some kind of mace-focused spell, since I thought that was his main weapon. As a house rule or sub cult I might do True Mace.

Does anyone know what rune spells Shargash will have in the RQG cults book? Based on the Red Book of Magic I’m guessing Summon Demon is one of them. Anyone with an early copy know the others? 

If you can find a copy of the zine Unspoken Word #1 there are articles by Greg Stafford and Simon Bray that describe the Shaker temple, although they may not be considered canon anymore. 

On 2/18/2021 at 5:27 AM, Leingod said:

As an aside, the BoHM also writes of Bran that he was noted for his "furious frenzy when fighting against anyone on horseback, a chariot, or other animal or vehicle." Which could be both a good starting point for working out magic for a hero-cult or Orlanth sub-cult of Great Bearded Bran that could give some useful anti-cavalry (or anti-animal, or anti-spirit) magic, and perhaps even a potential source of conflict later if that hostility towards animals leads to unforeseen difficulties with heroes bonded to hippogriffs who might, say, be looking for some kind of divine sanction to help one of them become king (and who better to ask than the great God Time hero himself?).

Thanks for the extra info, I missed that bit in the BoHM. I ended up choosing the Ravens as the home clan for most of the PC's. None of the players were very interested in becoming the king of the tribe. Instead they are building their influence, and then playing kingmaker with an NPC candidate from their clan. The background "war of the spirits" will be an ongoing complication for them. (highlight the text below for secrets...)

They and their candidate want to unite the tribe, but their clan chieftain and wyter secretly want to destroy it by killing Owl Lord and Great Bearded Bran. Then they will join the Olontongi or some other tribe. The PC's only have gotten hints of this so far. 

23 hours ago, Leingod said:

Now, I believe the official word on this (expressed by Jeff in a RuneQuest thread on this very topic, IIRC) is that Gerendetho is a local name/form of Lodril, and that his cult would thus be the normal Lodril cult (or a subcult thereof) with some local flavor. But while I'm still going with Gerendetho being an aspect/son of Lodril, for my own purposes with this particular concept I'm going to say that, at least in HQ/QW terms, it's one of those things where Gerendetho can function as both his own cult, with his own unique powers and attributes totally separate from Lodril's, but also as a local subcult of Lodril that gives worshipers a few (but not all) of said features.

I came up with a lot of similar ideas when I used Gerendetho for my last RQG campaign, including the runes you chose. I also prefer him as a son of Lodril, rather than the man himself. I remember the God’s Wall described him as “raising mountains,” which is the most Lodril thing he did. Instead of giving him earth-shaking magic, I gave him a rockslide spell to represent his creation of the Jord mountains. I imagined Granite Man as some kind of Jolanti or giant, so I also gave him a spell for bypassing the armor points of rock. 

I realized today that a lot of Gene Wolfe’s fiction feels very Gloranthan. The Book of the New Sun is a sort of hero’s journey, with numerous episodes that could be described as Heroquests.

He also wrote the “Soldier in the Mist” books, which actually do take place in Ancient Greece, and feature gods and heroes. 

A few disclaimers in the spirit of earlier posts: Wolfe’s writing can be sexist at times. The way he writes female characters is... not always great. Also, his writing can be very obtuse, and you often have to read his books a few times to really get what’s going on. All that being said, I find his stories are very inspiring. 

The descriptions of childhood are also really cool. 

Quote

 

"Troll children are raised in a group, tended and taught by their mothers and Xiola Umbar nurses. Troll childhood is as secluded as possible, and ideally the children are never revealed to the outside world until the age of thirteen years. Before the age of thirteen these secluded troll young are raised in a ritualistic and magical manner, being taught the secret livelihood of the troll species. As infants the young are cared for and protected within the deep peaceful safety of Subere. As children they learn the differences between hunger and thirst, touch and sound, the magic and the mundane, and the seven types of darkness. Kyger Litor visits them often to teach them how to dance, hurl stones, sing, and to know the Seven Bites which trolls must know to eat everything"

 

So basically troll children are raised the way I am raising my 3 year old in a pandemic. Instead of low-key heroquesting I'm just making pillow forts and pretending to be a talking truck. 

There is also some good stuff in Trollpak about the differences of growing up for girls and boys. Hopefully it's okay to share this...

Quote

"When the young trolls are ten years old, Kaarg visits and separates the boys from the girls. He takes the boys away to a strange place for seven days, teaches them a boys’ game, and gives them a secret amulet to protect them from unknown dangers. At the same time the ten year old girls learn a new dance. For the next three years the sexes are raised separately. The girls always do everything first, while the boys always stand on the outside, or on the left side, or in front, as the protecting mothers demand. At age thirteen all trolls who are ready for adulthood undergo their adulthood initiation rites. Those who have been dutiful will survive the rites and, when they return, will be full adults."

8 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

I would suggest that most, if not all, trolls raised in troll communities are at least lay members of the Kyger Litor cult (trollkin excluded, naturally) in addition to their other affiliations.  Given how carefully child and adolescent trolls are kept secluded from the world beyond their clan's caves, I would expect most initiation rites to begin with Kyger Litor, with the young troll crawling from the embrace of the Mother to assume their new role in society.

I agree with this. After looking at Trollpak again, it sounds like the initiation into KL's cult as a lay member is something that happens gradually throughout childhood, with many tests and magical experiences. The adulthood rites are more about leaving the protective darkness of your family cave and meeting the rest of the community. Becoming an initiate (in Runequest terms) would likely happen soon after that. I don't think you necessarily get rune points from just becoming an adult. 

Thinking about the merfolk now. I'm not sure who their main gods are, but I would think most men initiate to Magasta, and most women to Triolina. I would also think that most merfolk would have a third gender option, because the primal water gods had three sexes and genders (Framanthe, Daliath, Sramak). That isn't mentioned anywhere though, just my own musing.

I think it would make sense for young merfolk to reenact the stories of their tribe's founders. Not sure if this would be male/female/etc sort of thing. Maybe the implied gender fluidity of the Water Rune applies itself here, and the young'uns experience the heroquest as both male and female versions of their founder. For other tribes like the Malasp, this could also explain why they're so nasty and unpleasant if they all experience the trauma of their founder's experience with the air gods. 

1 hour ago, Runeblogger said:

Yes. In order to create an initiation ritual, you could for example figure out what is the most basic tenet of their cult and turn it into a vivid story of how the main deity learnt that, so when the individual passes the rite, she is on the same page as the rest of the adults of their community.

Right, so the Aldryami are interesting because sex and gender doesn't seem to be as important for them. Each variety has some combination of males and females, but it seems like anyone can choose to do what they want in terms of occupation, and serving the forest. So maybe there isn't really a male/female initiation dichotomy, but just a basic initiation to Aldrya and High King Elf's cult. 

7 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I'm assuming that every cult that has initiates requires an initiation ritual to join that rank, unless if the cult has some phrasing along the line of "every x is automatically an initiate of the cult". Alryami, ducks and trolls presumably initiate just like other people. Mostali and Dragonewts are less clear, as they typically don't join cults, and also have a different attitude towards the world.

I realized I wasn't being very clear, so I edited my post. I meant heroquest rituals to initiate children to adulthood, as featured in "Six Seasons in Sartar" and other places. 

We currently have some excellent descriptions of Orlanthi adult initiation rituals for Orlanth and Ernalda, as Heroquests. I was wondering if there is something similar for Uz, Aldryami, and other species in Glorantha.

I have read Trollpak, but I don't have my pdf handy so I can't check at the moment. My memory is that there is a very detailed description of Uz childhood and initiation, but this was written before "adult initiation Heroquests" became a thing. Were I to throw some together for Uz males and females, I think having them based on Karrg and Korasting would make sense. Like Heort and Ivarne, they both embody the ideal masculine and feminine virtues in troll society. Karrg is a good boy who shuts up and does what his mother tells him. Korasting is a loving, but strong, mother figure. 

Curious to hear other peoples' thoughts or ideas for adulthood initiation. Aldryami? Ducks? 

53 minutes ago, Beoferret said:

 

On page 222 of the core RQG rules there's a textbox on "Dragon Pass Chariots." That says the common Orlanthi chariot has move 11 and 16 hit points. I'm assuming that they act like a shield's hp, when calculating how much the chariot's body protects its occupants relevant hit locations. And, of course, chariots can be armored to some degree; e.g., the chariot in The Rattling Wind scenario has bronze plating on it for an armor rating of 5.

 

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