Sumath

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

Sounds sincerely wrong to me.

And to be honest, your 'Schrodinger's combatants' of indeterminate time and space sound like the epitome of wrong to me, so let's leave it there, shall we?

45 minutes ago, Joerg said:

What exactly is your problem?

I don't have a problem, I have a solution - which is adding the same number of SRs to the person moving as to the person they encounter. Done and dusted.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Depends on their lateral displacement to the course of the intruder. If the defenders have a very open formation allowing movement between them without running directly into them, they will use the 1m per strike rank in combat movement to approach the intruder.

 

I still say this is very much a strawman setup.

And I also say don't mind strike ranks except for relative first strike option between opponents.

The rules are fairly clear on this. You move into the envelope of the foremost defender and are engaged (unless the NPC is befuddled and doesn't make his rolls). If you still say you plow on, the defender gets an unparried attack if he has a weapon ready.

If you decide to parry or dodge, you slow down to combat movement rates.

And positions on the grid are what there is at the start of the melee round.

 

Decreasing would make sense, so the attack can take place. Increasing means that the attack opportunity doesn't come up because every 12 seconds everything grinds to a stop, and then some characters will start moving.

 

First rule of GMing: there is NPC info that PCs don't need to know and don't get to know. Just because something is written in the scenario notes doesn't mean it has to be played out exactly like that.

I'm sorry, we seem to be taking part in two different conversations, because very little of what you've said here maps to the points I've made.

21 minutes ago, Joerg said:

And yes, it can mean that the second NPC bypassed gets to strike before the first NPC bypassed gets to do so. So what - they will have moved slightly.

The second person bypassed striking before the first person bypassed just makes no sense at all, especially when the distance between the first and second is several metres or so. Good luck on presenting that to an average table of players. 

I really don't understand what the obsession is with refusing to increase the SR of a combatant who is waiting for an opportunity to attack. 

1 hour ago, EpicureanDM said:

Some stalwarts in this forum cling very strongly to this "ordering vs. impulse" distinction.

Yes. And yet strike ranks have always been the bastard offspring of both of those things, so I'm not sure why that still lingers.

It's not an impulse system. It's an acknowledgement of what SRs are:

DEX SR - reaction speed

SIZ SR - physical reach

Weapon SR - weapon reach

There is nothing in-built to the SR system to account for the effect of movement and positioning of combatants.

The fact that SRs are added for movement is an acknowledgement of this.

But all movement is relative. You cannot say it affects the order in which the mover attacks, but not anyone else whose position is changing relative to the mover.

Not if they pass by you when you are ready to hit them it isn't.

A combatant can move three metres per SR. If you attack on SR5 and they have moved 15 metres, then you are ready to hit them as they pass you.

The other combatant (who attacks on SR4) could still be 6 metres away, so cannot attack them.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

On the topic of running past intermediate people with weapons ready I find the notion of exactly one mobile attacker and three intermediate, static defenders quite weird, too - only seen in soccer (both amateur and more so professional). From my experience of mock combat, a significant amount of footwork is involved.

Playing with miniatures can easily get you into a chess mindset. Standing there with an implement designed to hit the opposition changes that perspective drastically. 

There seems to be a great deal of effort going on here to avoid the point of the example. Which is that not accounting for an opponent's movement in a combatant's strike rank order results in a sequence of combat that is spatially or chronologically impossible.

Whether the set-up is 'weird' or not is immaterial. The same problem results if they only run past one person who has a higher strike rank than the runner's target. 

4 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

You can't just run past people who want to engage you in combat. As soon as you are in melee range, you're engaged. If you then move past someone to get in range of someone else, they get a flanking bonus to attack you. And I have no problem with resolving those attacks each on their normal SR.

Wait... what?

You can't run past people? Since when?

So all those films where someone runs through a crowd of assailants, dodging blows and ducking under sword blades in order to get to the BBEG - those scenes can't happen in Runequest? If an opponent is not physically blocking your path, then yes you can run past them. Whether they get a flanking bonus to their attack is irrelevant to what SR they attack on. The fact that someone swings a sword at you, does not obligate you to stop and fight them.

I'd also be interested to know how you would resolve their attacks on normal SRs when Ned, Harry and Giza are three metres apart from each other. If (for example) Bazza runs past Ned on SR5, how can Harry (SR4) have attacked Bazza on the SR before if he does not fall in range of Harry's weapon until SR 6? How can Gabby have hit Bazza on SR 4 either? The whole thing is nonsense on stilts.

7 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I disagree, I don't think it does. YRQGMV.

Okay, look at it another way. On his way towards Gabby, Bazza runs past opponents Ned (who can attack on SR 5), Harry (SR 4) and Giza (SR6). All three of them will take a swing at Bazza as he runs past.

Are there SRs also not delayed by Bazza's movement, and does Gabby still attack on SR4? If so, how?

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Why is Morris' javelin not going until SR5?  Is he just that slow/clumsy?  Is the javelin not readied?  Did he move enough SR's to delay?  Some mix of all the above?

Because he is slow and he moves to stand next to Gabby, but a shorter distance than Bazza, so he reaches Gabby before Bazza does. 

So who is Gabby attacking on SR4?

It can't be Bazza because he's nowhere near her (or Morris in my example). Gabby cannot attack someone who is not there. Morris can, because he's using a thrown weapon. If Morris was faster and did not move, then he could attack on SR 4 or even 3. But this still doesn't mean that Gabby should attack on SR4 if she hasn't been engaged at that point.

Personally, I would have readiness/movement commence on a character's DEX SR, then movement SRs, and finally attacks (SIZ + Weapon SRs) commence when they are within range of their opponent. So for Bazza 2+4+1+3. Gabby can't attack until her opponent is in range, so she'd have to wait until SR6 when Bazza's movement has finished.

Strike ranks are an abstraction, but degrees of order are still important, and Gabby delaying her attack until a target presents itself needs to be accounted for. For example, what if Morris (standing next to Gabby) wants to throw a javelin into Bazza when Bazza is on his way to reaching Gabby?

Let's say he does this on SR5 (Morris moves a short distance to stand beside Gabby) - even so his attack obviously needs to happen before Gabby can hit Bazza. From Morris' point of view, Gabby cannot possibly carry out a melee attack on SR4, because Bazza has not reached her (he's up to six metres away), but Bazza is a viable target for Morris' thrown javelin.

So to preserve order of attack, Gabby's attack SR needs to be higher to account for her waiting for Bazza to arrive later in the round, and to allow Morris' thrown weapon to hit before Bazza closes the distance.

3 hours ago, Mechashef said:

For use of Hide and Move Quietly simultaneously, the adventurer should use the primary skill being attempted (Hide or Move Quietly), using the other as an augment.

Rephrase the last few words to 'like an augment' and you're sorted. 

9 hours ago, Mechashef said:

Thst still leaves us with the problem that a character can only “sneak” once (or twice) a session.

Other posts have dealt with why this is an incorrect inference, but the other thing I wanted to mention is how long an augment can last.

If you use a Rune affinity there is no reason why the augment cannot cover several rolls. If you are trying to sneak into a stronghold, then augmenting at the beginning could provide a bonus for all subsequent rolls while you're getting past each layer of security. For an example of an extended augment, check the Contested Ground actual play video on You Tube, where Jason Durall confirms that an Air Rune augment provides improves a character's speed and mobility for the duration of a shield contest.

Interesting, but taking the Sartarites as an example, none of these issues really apply to them. They don't have a centralised economy or agriculture, being a tribal society. This makes them less efficient but more resilient. There is no apparent shortage of Bronze (or Copper or Tin), and soil degradation is not an issue in Glorantha, since crops grow by the grace of Ernalda, rather than through nutrients in need or replenishment.

Also, Glorantha has magic, which makes up for most deficits that might be faced by a Bronze Age society. Now, if magic were suddenly to become scarce then I think a collapse would be imminent...

The last ship is currently docked in Vancouver, so yes, end of March sounds about right.

Mahome - the hearth fire.

Although I pronounce her name Ma-ho-may

Having said all that, Bargain skill rolls will influence the sale value for each item, and in most cases the main people in the market for them are merchants (with enough money, but also with high Bargain skills, which will likely reduce the price the PCs can get for the item). Looking in the GM Adventure book, some of the magical loot in there is given an upper value in the 100s of Lunars, and these are for ancient (and possibly famous) treasures. But anyway, YGMV.

2 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Many you value POW really cheaply! I doubt any PC would gladly hand over a POW sacrifice for an NPC at that price!

The value of Lunars is much greater in RQG than it was in RQ2 and RQ3. In RQG 30 to 60L is a full season's income for most people, and that's before any deductions. You could buy a riding animal for 60L or several cows, and it's almost enough to buy a human slave. So, yes, a one point magic item costing 30-60L is about right.

Obviously if the item itself is made out of precious metals, or is of excellent craftsmanship then it will be worth more. But I certainly wouldn't value items at 1000s of Lunars per POW point in RQG - magic items are relatively common in Glorantha, and nobody would have 1000s of Lunars available to buy such items.

You have to declare them, at least, so the cult can determine their worth. Valuing items will vary but the POW used to create them is a useful rule of thumb - I'd say 30-60L per point of POW, depending upon demand for such objects, and how generous you're feeling as GM.

Splitting treasure between party members should happen in the same way it does in other games - cash gets split proportionately, and magic items go to those who can make best use of them. Encourage the PCs to make a case for keeping an item, or for agreeing quid pro quo between them. Of course, sometimes they will still end up having to surrender an item they've secured to their cult anyway.

If the party have recovered a single ancient treasure that cannot be divided, then that in itself may become the trigger for a further session - perhaps things turn political, with local cult leaders falling out over what should happen to the item, and local tensions rising? Perhaps the only way to retain the item is if the recipient assists the other cults to find treasures of equal value? Or between associated cults some agreement may be established where each temple gets the benefit of the object for a season or a year at a time.

It'll be down to the cult leaders to distribute loot as reward for each person's part in finding it/dealing with the problem that arose. Magic items are of little use sitting on a shelf in a temple, so they would be distributed rather than hoarded (although they may be sold if the cult is hard-up at the time). Rune Lords are always going to be first in line for magic weapons unless someone else has greatly distinguished themselves. Priests will be second in line for magic items in most cases.

Items you enchant yourself include your own sacrifice of POW (that you've already earned from the cult and just reallocated into an object) and are therefore part of your personal panoply, so the cult won't get dibs on them.

Given that the Lunar pantheon contests the Middle Air with the storm pantheon, perhaps its better to think of it as an anti-Lightbringer Quest, dialling back the Great Compromise long enough to make room for more Chaos to enter the world? So maybe we should be looking at which of the Mothers are in opposition to the Lightbringers in that unknown ritual? Perhaps they put Yanafal Tarnils in Chalana Arroy's role, and Jakaleel or Danfive Xaron in Lhankor Mhy's?

Boom!

13 minutes ago, RosenMcStern said:

Is this a new game "Request, Advtures in Glortha"?

Perhaps Request is a politer version of the game? A Game of Manners in Glorantha.

"Excuse me, could you and your Broo kin kindly refrain from spreading the Shakes on our tula? We'd also appreciate you not molesting our cattle, and ceasing to sacrifice our children to Mallia".

Questions @Jeff - will there be discussion of temple design for the gods, like there is in the RQG rulebook? Can you give us a rough idea of what each cult write-up will cover?

1 hour ago, Tindalos said:

Kind of interesting that thieves get multiple cults compared to other professions, like scribes, who end up making do with Lhankor Mhy.

Er... Irrippi Ontor?