Shiningbrow

8 hours ago, Kloster said:

Jeff's current list is: "Chalana Arroy, Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, Eurmal and many others". We have to wait for the cult book to get the rest of the list, even if we know that Malkion (of course) and probably Seven Mothers (and other lunar cults) are in.

Just thinking about this on the way into town...

Of the seven Lightbringers... two are somewhat unknown or not worshipped now (Ginna Jar and Mortal Flesh), leaving 5. Of those 5 Lightbringers (who were major characters), only 1 has a problem with sorcery! And, ironically enough, it's the dude who tells us "No-one can tell you what to do" 😛 

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

This thread is about munchkinnery, so the correct answer is: "Any cult which doesn't explicitely prohibit sorcery".

7 hours ago, Crel said:

However p.275, "In many cults, initiates may not become shamans or sorcerers."

The munchkin response would then be "but, I'm not a full sorcerer.. As an assistant shaman hasn't got a fetch yet, and so could join, my sorcery student doesn't have a familiar yet. Thus..."

13 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Jeff's current list is: "Chalana Arroy, Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, Eurmal and many others". We have to wait for the cult book to get the rest of the list, even if we know that Malkion (of course) and probably Seven Mothers (and other lunar cults) are in.

I wonder if these are merely "permissions", or actually something the cult is willing to teach. LM and CA (in a previous version) definitely teach sorcery. Eurmal - who knows what he thinks 😛

And, leaves us still with "what about joining associate cults?" For Orlanth, that would mean "you can join associate cults - but just not half of the other Lightbringers... if you're doing my no-no".

Reiterating what I said above - no sorcery from heathen sources. "Theistic" sorcery (other name would be used) is ok... (but, obviously, that's my Glorantha)

2 minutes ago, Crel said:

IIIIIINTERESTING.

Gonna go do some math and reading. Any other cults confirmed to have sorcery permissions?

Chalana Arroy (given that it has "prohibited sorcery" spells)

Just now, PhilHibbs said:

And once it's cast it a couple of times, how is it going to replenish its Rune Points? If it has 7 RP then you could make it cast Flight 2 extended to a year.

Sorry - I"m just tacking on my bits about "how to get a triceratops as your pet" line of thought...

11 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Apparently so. Aeolians will worship Orlanth, but not as "initiation". That term is reserved for theistic worship, and sorcery is usually prohibited. This came up on Facebook in the context of whether Orlanthi could cast Open Seas, and the answer is that they can't. Not that they need to any more...

I don't have FB... (haven't used it in so many years...).

Personally, as per my comment above, I'd understand Orlanth having a problem with the 'heathen' version of sorcery, but I'd think it'd make perfect sense for initiates of his good old buddy and pal LM to be an exception to his general rule.

And, of course Orlanthi can't Open Seas...  wouldn't mean LM initiates couldn't.

Anyway, slightly wasted discussion as the GoG hasn't come out yet.

If we're going to stick with this idea, then I can always change my A) above to, "sorcerer can summon and bind an Orlanthi cult spirit with Flight, and then command it to cast said spell... (new argument ensues about how much deities care about such things...)

28 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Orlanth initiates cannot learn sorcery, sorry.

IIRC, this is the first iteration of RQ that has LM having sorcery available to them through the cult. So, is that prejudice going to remain canon in the upcoming GoG? (And that's without discussing Aeoliansim...)

(ETA: I fully understand, appreciate,and agree with the idea that "godless' sorcery wouldn't be allowed to Orlanth (or most other deities, for that matter), but Lhankor Mhy (and Chalana Arroy!) "sorcery" is given by their cult and cult leaders (and, possibly, their god). I write "sorcery" in quote marks, because while it's a convenient term for use to categorise it all under one term, perhaps they call it something different (and, given the different languages of Glorantha, that wouldn't surprise me one bit!).

47 minutes ago, Crel said:

They don't have to occur together. P.315, "With a successful Worship roll during an associated cult's high or seasonal holy day, initiates get 1D6 Rune points restored, and [Rune Masters] get 1D6+1 Rune points replenished." I assume, though, that it's the Worship skill associated with the initiate's own deity.

For the "reality" of it, I imagine this would be like playing LM's role in a reenactment of the Lightbringer's Quest on Orlanth's holy day. Though I guess with that understanding you could only act one role, and get one cult's RP back.

Still, it really emphasizes how strong a player choice it is to join a cult with many associated cults. Cults like Orlanth & Ernalda have many more opportunities to refill RP than smaller/less affiliated cults like Odayla or Humakt. 

You're thinking how I have been.. RAW, on an associate's holy day, if you go and worship (not sure who to, though), you'd get 1D6 (plus 1/votive image! Never forget those!!!)

So, if you're initiated into multiple cults, you should be getting lots back! IIRC, Ernalda has a holy day every week....(do they count as the 'seasonal' holy days??)

In theory, that should mean... for every cult that is associated with Ernalda that you've joined (which, I believe, is every Lightbringer deity), you should be getting back 1D6 RPs per cult.

2 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Yeah, my go to example if Orlanth Thunderous and Odayla, in the PDF I have it says Odayla gives Orlanth Thunderous initiates the Bear's Strength spell, which in it's description states you have to be an odayla initiate to cast the spell on yourself. So, I assume most thunderous initiates do the Odayla thing for a maple trump card. Lol. Surprise Bear Orlanthi

I read that more as a specific example of that spell (Bear's Strength) having an exception... ie, it should read "This spell can only be cast on Intitiates of Odayla or Orlanth Thunderous".

Ooops - sorry for another one...

" This is an exception to the rule restricting worshippers to a single subcult. "

Is that a HQ rule? I don't see anything like it in the RQG, and given that Orlanth has Rune Lord-Priests, which requires them to come from both Adventurous and Thunderous... and, if they're that good, and become a clan chieftan or thane, Rex as well... (see Leika Blackspear in the Adventurer's book... Vinga and Rex).

18 minutes ago, Crel said:

Is it really that easy to just up and initiate into an extra cult? I've not gotten that impression from the rulebook except in very specific cases, like Yinkin initiates joining Orlanth.

If joining a second cult is that simple, that opens up all sorts of shenanigans I've been disregarding!

Associated and friendly cults - yes (p274, and 275 - Membership in Multiple Cults)

(Edit: check out the personages in the Adventurer's book... lots of multi-cult membership. Perhaps most interesting is the Issaries/Yelmalio cultist)

8 hours ago, gochie said:

Possibly... Can unenchanted iron even be enchanted considering their anti-magic properties? Either way, armoring enchantment doesn't exist anymore (yet?) and these NPCs are human Orlanthis, so this was clearly an oversight/mistake. 

Enchant Rune Metal (Iron) is an enchantment.....

2 hours ago, Crel said:

Because I'm an egregious munchkin and don't want to waste time/MP/Runes & Technique choices learning Flight.

...

Also because apparently there is no sorcerous Flight spell yet. Hrm.

A) if you're a Lhankor Mhy sorcerer, then you join Orlanth and sacrifice the POW for the Flight; or

b) summon and control an air elemental (noting that you'd need one of the associated Runes - Air, or Fire or Water as lessers... which happen to also be the same runes you want for other spells like Steal Breath, Enhance INT, Create Wall of Flame, etc). If you also have Steal Breath, then MPs become irrelevant!

(edit: oh, i missed Crel's response above before posting ...)

1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

The 700L is the price in DP I believe, considering the rest of the game is centered around it for now. As for the Dwarven armor, well there's not really any bronze chainmail to compare its AP to so I don't see the problem.

While the bronze chainmail may not be written up, it shouldn't be tougher than plate. Also, there are stats given for the dwarven full helm... the RQG has the bronze version as being only 6 pts. The dwarven equivalent is somehow 12 pts... which would be stronger than even enchanted iron!

Maybe, just maybe, that "secrets of iron craft" skill is super-awesome!

I'm just reading through the Adventure book from the GM Screen Pack, and I happen to notice that the Tin Inn in Apple Lane has a resident poet - male - named Pramble, who's an Initiate of Ernalda in the Sisters of Inspiriation sub-cult.

Personally, I have no problems with males being allowed to initiate into Ernalda (just as women can initiate into Orlanth), although I'd probably restrict them from going higher. As the deity of life, and with numerous consorts, it should be pretty obvious that life usually requires both sexes.

However, sorcery also has the Geomancy spell, so that'd make tracking down said triceratops a whole lot easier!

24 minutes ago, Crel said:

Corollary to my prior post: doing drugs helps you get pets.

Hazia and Moon Flowers (Bestiary p.199) each provide the effect of the Discorporation spell (it says "spell" specifically, so probably not actually meaning the shaman ability with the same name). You could use this to go bully an animal into submission with Spirit Combat, then cast Control (Entity) to command it for two whole minutes. Or forever, if you're a shaman with Spell Extension (but without Rune magic, or just without the Discorporation spell).

Or - sorcerous Dominate Animal... which will require quite a few MPs if you don't have the precise animal listed for the spell, but still a lot easier to acquire than either Rune or Spirit magic. And, has the added benefit of a much higher intensity than the spirit spell, no need to discorporate, and can (potentially) control the thing for years!

Sorry for the resurrection, but quick question - what's the price for crystals? Both powered and unpowered.

It used to be in the thousands of L... I'm not so sure now.

(pun intended... naturally!)

I finally got the Adventurer's Book (after lots of hassles with the dl from DriveThru )

And, looking at the Rune Metals, I noticed a particular sentences- "When enchanted, iron weapons are tempered into steel. They have half again the armor points of bronze.... Unenchanted iron has the same physical qualities as bronze." (p121)

However, in the Bestiary, under Mostali, "Armor: Coat of unenchanted heavy dwarf iron chainmail (11 pts.) and full helm (12 pts.)"

Speaking of Iron, the price lists say unenchanted Iron is worth 700L per ENC. However, prices will fluctuate and be widely different based on availability (naturally!). So, question - what price would you put on unenchanted iron around Dragon Pass? (or, is the 700L considered the typical price for that area, as the rest of RQG is centred in that part of the world?)

" Only women may worship Ernalda. "

I think you should rephrase that. Anybody can worship anything they like. Especially since it's a base truth that associated cults, as well as in general the entire pantheon, will also worship those deities connected.

Being accepted into the cult as an initiate is something quite different.

I'm seeing this discussion somewhat similar to the related languages, with the half, 1/5, 1/10 skills...

You're always able to perform the skill at X% of the first skill, but can improve the others individually above that. Which, really, only becomes relevant when the original skill is so high that it's going to be tough getting the experience check. Otherwise, the off-hand/related language is always going to benefit from skill increases.

(I was almost confused by the RAW... after all, I didn't see a point in a) tracking each hand individually, and b) having the half-normal hand skill.... But, I think I get it now).

9 hours ago, Kloster said:

Sure, Base is 05% for off-hand weapon use, but you can still use half your normal score. After all, this is another weapon skill in the same category.

8 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I am not sure if off-handed weapon use is similar enough to qualify as being the same category. You really have to rethink your whole strategy here when changing hands, the muscles are different so even the weight will seem different. The angles you are used to are now backwards. You will not be able to rely on muscle memory (which is an incredibly important in any physical action).

 I play guitar quite well but have been handed guitars often enough by south paws which I have gamely tried to play. and found all my skills are now gone. I had to translate all my knowledge to a new situation (thankfully similar, but still backward) I would have to play with skills I did not have while translating my knowledge (easy translation with time) and playing all at the same time. 

I think the existing penalties are quite fair. Hard weapon skill base at 5% and no similar weapon category bonuses...

Cheers

8 hours ago, Kloster said:

Completely agreed. But the half skill is what I understand of the rules, not what I feel about real world. I have practiced fencing quite  a lot, and am completely unable to use a foil, sword or saber with my left hand. On the other hand, I have practiced archery with both hands, with quite similar results.

7 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Hmm, I am fairly sure that RW and rules actually correspond here.

Just having  a quick  look and while I can find nothing proving your point I can also find nothing proving my point. Stand off (or in RQ terms a tie on the opposed roll). In the real world we both agree that you would have to start from a difficult base to relearn skill off-hand. Question is how is this resolved in the rules.Is an off-handed weapon a different weapon category or is it eligible for the 50% similar weapon skill modifier

 Anyone? Shall we thrash this about here or in a new thread before posting a rule question. Has this already been solved? Will Edna return to Cliff and what is this question from the Guiding Life doing here anyway?

Cheers

P225 -

"Every adventurer is assumed to be right-handed, unless otherwise determined... Use of a weapon in the "off" hand must be started at 05%, with the usual addition or subtraction for their Manipulations skills category..."

However...

"The player must keep track of the individual weapon expertise of the adventurer with each weapon as used in each hand. Training or experience in using a weapon left-handed does not help the right-handed attack or parry with the same weapon, except that the half effectiveness rule applies. For example, use of a dagger left-handed, allows the adventurer to use it right-handed at half the left-handed ability". (my emphasis)

Simple question... which will have a long answer...

P12 of RQG has a nice pic of religious significance.

I suspect a lot of newbies (and probably a lot of oldies as well) won't get the full significance.

I do get Yelm, Orlanth and I presume Ernalda in the centre pillar of what I presume is Kero Fin (or, The Spike...). The characters across the top are the holders of the various runes - p22 & 47). But, some are clearly not what I think...

Would someone please care to enlighten us?

(sort of like Prince of Sartar, with lots of people chiming in noticing all the little bits.. and sometimes arguing over the significance of a swirl somewhere... :p)

I think, IIRC, in every RQ game I've played (which, granted, weren't many, and were many many years ago), there was always a Humakti duck... usually undead fighting!

8 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Technically, you still do...

pg 225 "Use of a weapon in the “off ” hand must be started at 05%, with the usual addition or subtraction for their Manipulation skills category modifier Also, an adventurer’s DEX must
be at least 1.5 times the minimum DEX needed to use the weapon (always round up) before they may use it off-handed."

Dammit, I was just advising a player to use this option but now I don't know if its such a good idea.

 

That significantly changes the munchkinnery above... There's quite a bit of presumption in just using 1 skill.