Shiningbrow

Other than the generosity that @PhilHibbs mentioned above, I think you're doing what most consider normal (within a given range of normal).

I think most GMs allow adjustments - and that's why the chapter on character creation mentions some of the options available (but, not all...).

As per always - My Glorantha probably varies...

My 2 clacks - unless it's obvious (like Fireblade), then no.

Otherwise, everyone would see a Protection or Shield spell in place, and thus know they need to boost any offensives, or Dispel them.  "Oh look, your sword is glowing... I'll have to do something about that!" Can you imagine dating someone who's always glowing? 😛

If there was an afterglow of residual magic, logically it would also suggest that the stronger the magic, the greater the glow. Thus making it a lot easier to determine how much dispel power you'd need... So, not only would that mean your spell casting is very obvious, but would also affect your ability to hide and sneak (especially in the dark)... and if that were the case, I would have thought that Chaosium or some other rules person would have thought about that a long time ago and brought it up in the rules...

Also - Pierce Veil specifically notes that it can see spells with duration - the other two similar spells don't. The Shamanic ability Enhanced Second Sight allows one to know the exact spells cast on someone... these are the only two spells that mention such an ability. The first certainly seems to imply spells don't glow.

(although, that might not be the question being asked... Is there a flash of light or crackle or pop or something? What about when someone casts a Befuddle? Or Demoralise? Or Charisma or Clever Tongue? As soon as you see someone casting magic, you should be instantly suspicious. We do need to speak the spell... but then, what about spirits or those bound into animals?("woof woof arf"... Bling!)? (one of the Shaman's taboos is to only cast spells using Spiritspeech)

Opposing my opinion is p248 "Spell Effects"... "The sensory effects of a spell (what it looks, sounds, smells, and even feels like) depend on the type of magic used and the power of the spell." However, I haven't noticed any other reference to this, so it's possibly just a once mentioned and never to be discussed again type of thing.

On 5/4/2019 at 7:43 PM, Tywyll said:

 I just get tired of hearing how 'realistic' RQ combat is compared to DND or other systems with more abstraction when it really isn't. It just includes some more bells and whistles that those systems don't and has it's own abstraction and assumptions built in (and that's okay!).

Ummm, but it is. Objectively so.

Unless you've got a DM who's being really precise and pulling lots of sideline or house rules, you won't have someone get hit 3 times, and then have their leg or arm incapacitated.

(I admit to not having the latest ruleset in my head at the moment, but...) Pick up a shield. What's its armour rating? What if you don't have training in using it properly? Do you really need to spend feats on the shield skill to be better at it (IIRC, only by another 5%... +1). That level of abstraction clearly makes it less realistic... thus, we have the definition of 'abstraction' in play!

Granted, RQ and similar aren't "fully realistic", but it's certainly a lot more realistic than D&D.

Q: am I the only one who sees this thread title on the main page, and instantly ends it with "with gasoline" in a David Bowie voice???

How about the term 'official'?  Less connotations when something is "not official", because it directly refers to the source (printed materials from IP owning publishers).

Also, something could follow canon, and be unofficial.... (apparently, there's also official but non-canonical).

Those who are being creative can do so, knowing they're not employed by Chaosium, and so "not official". If later, Chaosium decides to publish their work, it then becomes official (and canon).

I'm saying, i like @g33k's idea, but understand the potential problem.

(note to self - Conan isn't canon!)

10 hours ago, g33k said:

Yeah, but the "Black Moon" phase means less Imperial Lunar magic to face!

If you want to include that, I'd go a touch less in media res, give them a bit of travel, in Crescent-Going and/or Dying Moon nights (so their actual raid happens on Black Moon).

Honestly, I'd add the whole "eerie red moon" and Lunar Moon Cycles later.  We can't fit ALL of Glorantha into one short intro scenario...

I understand the Black Moon to make it darker - no problems there...

9 hours ago, EpicureanDM said:

Absolutely. Lunar Magic is too far into the weeds for an introductory scenario for people new to RQ.

But the Lunar Magic doesn't need to be brought into the scenario itself... just the idea of of it.

That is, we firstly need to remember that our new players don't realise that there's no big whitish coloured moon out there to light up the sky at night. Secondly, it would help to introduce the idea that the gods are fully real in the world, and this has real in-game affects - and some of those affects are literally visible and tangible.

So, tell the PCs that they're starting this raid during a Dying Moon so that a) it's a little bit darker (how bright is the Red Moon normally???), and b) it will make the Lunar's magic less powerful. They also need to complete the raid/scenario fairly quickly (within days/nights), otherwise that magic comes back bigger and stronger. That's just created the atmosphere of being in a truly magical world which is quite different from almost any other game world. (this assumes the idea of this one shot is both to get them into BRP in general, and Glorantha/RQ in particular).

My thinking of bringing this in stems directly from when I tried a one-shot (again from RQ6's quest book). A chaos creature had just wiped out most of a village. It was coming back the next night to wreak more damage (however, using different tactics!) In the ensuing battle, one of players was saying that he should be able to see in the light of the moon... oh, yeah, I forgot to mention - there's only a Red Moon, she's a goddess that put herself up there, it powers magic, and it's not as bright as ours here on earth! (that quickly changed their mindset!)... Of course, having enemies that think and use different tactics was very frustrating for them too

I introduced some players to RQ through the RQ6 (adjusted) stuff from the Caravan of Quests (IIRC)

In particular, with a larger group, I did the competition run - 7 (?) daily competitions... which gives them ample opportunity to roll lots of dice for lots of skills and abilities without the threat of death. It also had a Yelmalian local chief playing unhappy host to their Lunar Overlords in an Orlanthi town. So, having characters do things for normal "selfish" reasons was one thing... having them do things which may matter on the much larger scope of the game world (ie, Glorantha) was something different. It meant what they did, and how they acted, would have an influence (this was done at a time when we were discussing a couple of computer games like Skyrim - it didn't really matter what you did, your actions didn't really make much difference... so much for being a hero!)

The game also had a couple of plot twists... including the ogre who was occasionally leaving dead bodies behind at night, and choices over honour etc... And, the no magic rule (do they break it to win? Or not..??? And if they do, what are the consequences?)

All of the above got them involved in the game - not just playing one.

(granted, I was a crap GM, and so things didn't go as smoothly as I'd have liked)

On 5/6/2019 at 5:20 AM, David Scott said:

You're all in the treeline outside the stockade there, it's night with no moon, but you can see a tall rocky outcrop on the left that is part of the stockage, in the centre there are high stockade gates with a watch tower behind and to the right.

If you change that to "half moon", then you can tell them about the Red Goddesses rise, and the expansion of the empire. Also, if described well, the eerie red night will evoke more interest in the setting. If your characters are the victims of this imperial invasion, then it can add tension (particularly if you're playing with Vostor the Pre-Gen...  (is that a cool character name?? 😛 ) and makes it seem more real).

11 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think the Discorporate spell is an early choice, so they can learn Spirit Dance and Spirit Travel. You can learn the basics as theory just by being told, though.

While it was what I was thinking, that does mean that either the assistant is burning lots of POW to get lots of RPs, or the training is only happening every season... Because it would mean that the shaman could only teach those two skills when the RPs were available to the assistant. (it's a Self only spell)

However, in Vasana's Tale, she talks about when Argrath taught them to Discorporate, which would imply that it's possible without the spell (unless they sacrificed for it), or it's a separate ability that can be learned.

One question I do have on this topic - can you learn Spirit Dance and Spirit Travel without being discorporate? And, if using the spell, why don't you need those skills to travel?

3 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Maybe this is covered by the celibacy vows? After all, consorting with females can result in birthing pains...

Now, that was hilarious!!! 😛

However, sticking with the seriousness of the discussion, why wouldn't that be a breaking of a geas?

What I'm about to write probably should be a thread on its own, but...

Given what @Rick Meints said above, and what's been hinted at elsewhere, where exactly are the differences? In myths, I see no great problems with different, even contradictory material. But what about history? (when I was RQing years ago, and even now, I focus on rule systems a lot more than a detailed analysis of the history)

11 hours ago, Bohemond said:

I think the gods frown on rules-lawyering. If Yelmalio tells you to never harm a woman and you try to weasel your way around it, I think Yelmalio puts you in a world of hurt. He's pretty strict about those Truth-rune issues.

For a Yelmalian, coming from a very patriarchal society, yes - I'd agree.

For an Orlanthi, who live in a fairly gender-balanced society, I think that "rules lawyering" would be appropriate. (not suggesting you're wrong with your example - just talking about geasa in general)

The irony though is that it would be very strictly abiding by the Truth Rune if rules-lawyering.... "Yelmalio, dude... if you meant 'don't hurt" then you should have said that!" 😛

56 minutes ago, soltakss said:

In that situation, I'd just start the duel and immediately submit. Honour is satisfied without breaking a geas.

Also, are you sure the geas wasn't "Never harm a woman needlessly"? In which case, all bets are off.

I could go more pedantic over the use of the word 'harm'... versus that of 'hurt'. With all the magics around for healing, I wouldn't consider a fight to first blood to be 'harmful'. Not only is honour satisfied, but the intent behind the challenge would be accepted, and no-one would feel slighted in any way (for two honourable groups of people).

34 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

The original question was telling between a powered and an unpowered crystal.

Fair enough. My bad.

10 minutes ago, Joerg said:

A dead crystal is magical - you can store MP or spirits inside. Live crystals are even more magical, but Detect Magic is qualitative, not quantitative.

Thus, Detect Magic should tell you it's a magic crystal, not a piece of rock - which was the original question. After that, take it to an LM... the idea being, don't waste the Analyze Magic until after the Detect Magic...

 

At close range, and it is a three point spell.

Close range if not adjusted. But, I figured we're talking about a crystal that's in your hand...

 

So a crystal has 14 MP. Is either a spirit or a live crystal part of the living, or is Soul Sight limited to the MP? Can it discern between a dead crystal inhabited by a spirit and one just full of MP?

"This spell allows the recipient to see both the POW aura of the living ..."

So, I'd say, you'd get a very different aura read off a dead crystal to one that's powered. Spirits shouldn't still be trapped within a crystal if the previous binder is now dead.

 

Soul Sight is a one point rune spell - less force than Pierce Veil, less information.

Rune Magic is worth a minimum of 2 points of sorcery... I"m not suggesting that Soul Sight tells you everything about teh crystal, but should tell you whether it's a powered crystal or not...

 

For that test, you need a Storm Bull...

Are there any Storm Bull Sword Sages?

 

Possible... but not Associated Cults. However, an Orlanthi could initiate into StormBull for the Sense Chaos, and get LM's Analyze Magic...

(response in blue above - so if you haven't turned it on, you'll need to read between the lines)

Is there a blatantly obvious reason why Detect Magic wouldn't work to tell you whether it's magical or not?

Also, Sorcerous Pierce Veil specifically states: "Thus, the spell could distinguish a POW crystal from a spirit bound in a POW crystal,..."

Similarly, Soul Sight: "This spell allows the recipient to see both the POW aura of the living and to magically know the actual current magic points of other things and creatures,..." (my emphasis). So, if Soul Sight is more powerful than spirit and sorcery, then it should pick up better as well.

And, thus, Analyze Magic, as a cult specific Rune spell of the god of knowledge, should tell you with the first point what the crystal would do... (but, not whether it's flawed or chaotic).

6 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

may cause baldness in vey gullible customers, drowsiness in vey tired ... ah heck just see a doctor for Chalana's sake!

Shouldn't that say "just see a priest/ess"?

9 hours ago, soltakss said:

Probably a third comes from sources, a third is misremembered stuff and a third is made up stuff. The problem is when people claim their made up stuff is actual stuff, or when two people are doing the same.

 

That's the problem.

Some people argue about their own ideas and treat them like canon, only to dismiss other people's ideas as made up. It can get quite ping-pongy, with I said You Said I said You Said. Sometimes they contain useful information, often they don't. The Page Down Button is you friend.

A great quote I loved is "When I wrote "from my research", what I really meant was "made shit up"."

11 hours ago, Bohemond said:

I recently had a newbie playing a Vingan in one of my campaigns. I needed to give her a moment in the spotlight. So I had the characters fall prisoner to a very powerful Yelmalion. One of the Orlanth in the Yelmalion's clan suggested to the Vingan that she challenge him to a duel. As they fought he kept getting weaker and weaker and she eventually was able to defeat him. After the fight, they found out that he had a geas to never harm a woman and a geas to never refuse a challenge from an Orlanthi. So being challenged by a Vingan was a no-win situation for him. The moment he scored a hit on her, Yelmalio started to abandon him. 

Blunt weapon attacks... or target her weapon.... He should have prepared himself for it. It's not like Vingans are a tribal/cult secret...

17 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yes, I didn't spot that, I agree, typo. Could be a Yanafal Tarnils gift I suppose. A character in my RQ3 game had something like 34 HP but that was through Strengthening Enchantments.

Actually it should be 28 + 0 + 3 = 31.

8 hours ago, RHW said:

Beanpot never studied math.

Right!

That makes much more sense...

The high stats across the board are still.... odd. Doable, though.

In My Glorantha Variant, all PCs should always be capable of reaching the same heights. And, therefore, the rules should allow for it somewhere. Those NPCs like Harrek, Argrath, etc shouldn't be 'miraculous' in the sense that they break the rules. When we look at other superheroes from other universes, they're not "just" that way - there's a reason behind it, and if anyone else was in the same position, they too would gain said powers. (Granted, child of deity is a bit unique, so our heroes probably shouldn't get that... but the rest???)

29 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Reproduce doesn't boost stats, but Bless Pregnancy does, and is pretty awesome at it. A priestess like Ereneva Chan with 12 RP can bless a child to have +10 spread across any characteristics. If you go with the rule that spells can't be regained during their duration, though, she's out of RP for the whole pregnancy.

I think Bless Pregnancy is just for people, I would have also added a target restriction like the Yinkin and Basmol spells.

I was also thinking of this 12RPs when looking over the "how to roll characteristics" thread...

If Extension and the spell it extends mean you don't get those RPs, then this should be the same.

As for "people" - what's the definition? It's a little blurry in RQ. And Joerg's bit below even more so...

31 minutes ago, Joerg said:

No idea what would happen if you blessed a herd man bull this way, then awakened it. Would it still affect only herdman women? Would the effect be canceled if the herd man is not a beast any more?

(Speaking of this, how much is intercourse with awakened herd-men in the neighborhood of bestiality? When you awaken your bison or sable steed, you still expect it to copulate with other herd beasts, so what is the deal with awakened herd men?)

Is an awakened animal a person??? What about if an allied spirit inhabits the body?

I'm curious about these 3 spells, as they do something all rather similar, but...

What I'm wondering about is - what is "woman" defined as? I presume Bless Pregnancy can be cast on Ducks, Trolls, Minotaurs, Baboons, Morokanth, etc etc... where's the line on species? What about other non-sentient life? Eg, horses, cows, etc.

The significance is that with enough RPs thrown in, your herds suddenly get very strong (and renowned).

But, OTOH, what's the meaning and limitation on Reproduce? "The being’s next attempt at procreation succeeds to the greatest degree possible. If a corn shoot were blessed, the full-grown plant would  be heavily laden with ears, and all kernels in each ear would be large, fertile, and capable of growing a new plant"... implies to me species maximum stats!

Can these 3 spells be combined?

33 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

There's a big difference between "not possible" and "not covered". None of those items are ususable due to missing rules, and nor do they break any hard game rules. You could say the same about the NPCs in the Gamemaster Adventures book - Black Spear, Asborn Thriceborn's self-resurrection power, King Vererenenos's shield, spear, and javelin etc.

What we need - and I hope we will get in the Gamemaster Guide - is some guidelines or suggestions for creating and describing such items, either through "mundane" means like the Windberry Staffs or as Heroquest rewards.

HP:      19+31 = 60

Was what I was specifically looking at... Probably a typo, but given the other stats, I'm not sure 😛

Although, yes, I totally agree about missing rules... which would probably be needed to justify those stats (is he Illuminated? Or does he glow really radiant Chaos? Or has he had lots of HQs? Or Gifts? Or...???)

But, that's also why I specifically used the term "basic RQG ruleset"... Armouring Enchantment doesn't exist currently, so at this moment in time, his helmet alone doesn't work.

43 minutes ago, Crel said:

AFAICT, there's no reason to not wear leather vambraces, hauberk, and pants below your other armor. The table on p.215 notes "Can be worn under any other armor, with a cumulative encumbrance penalty" for those items but the listed ENC is 0. So.... Free AP!

I think. Unless I buggered the reading again. Am I wrong?

1pt leathers/quilted was always worn under other tougher (usually metal) armours in our games.

22 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Also, linen linothorax is only 1 enc for 3 ap, wearable under armor for both chest and abdomen. Sign me up,

2pt Linen Linothorax is not written (table or description) as being wearable under other armours in my book... Quilted is  (2pts v 1pt).

There seems to be a discrepancy between the table and the description -  the table doesn't have the ** to indicate wearable underneath, while the description does. However, that's only for hte quilted, and not for the linen anyways...

54 minutes ago, Crel said:

What was your process when coming up with these stats? I can very much see my players wanting to go up against notable named characters of the Hero Wars metaplot someday... 

I, too, would like to know how all of this was created.

I dread the amount of 'house rules' needed though... There are a number of items which are basically not possible using the basic RQG ruleset.

1 hour ago, Tywyll said:

I doubt we'll ever see them. Glorantha has always been a metaplot driven setting where Pcs aren't as cool as the Npcs. Giving them stats would mean you could kill them and change the metaplot. So I doubt we'll ever see anything official.

And the new Heroquest rules might bridge the gap, but I am not holding my breath. 

Also I just don't know if a gritty realism focused system like BRP can handle the high power levels of such characters. Even superwoman characters weren't really 'take on an army by yourself' level of power, which the superheroes of Glorantha could do.

I do get that... but having some idea of what makes someone a 'hero' category... or 'superhero' category??? Is 300% plus 20 RunePoints enough? Or does it need to be 500%? Or 1000% and 50 POW?