Tizun Thane

As always, thank you

On 10/13/2019 at 1:19 AM, jeffjerwin said:

his mother's house is about 30 miles north of the Castle of the Kite, so, a different route back or to Cadair Idris could be folded into that episode. I put that in c.535 in my campaign so it would match Chretien.

Very nice idea! I was wondering... In the KAP, the PK are looking for the stolen jewels of Cameliard. In Chrétien's work, the wandering knights are looking for 5 knights and 3 maidens. How would you reconcile all of this?

I really want to thank all the team for this gift to the community.

The Art is gorgeous. On the adventure itself, there is a strong ressemblance with an adventure of Gauvain(Gawaine) in Perlesvaus, which can not be a coincidence and is of course a plus. The mix with the historical and mythical Merionnyd stuff was beautifully executed. I really like it and will play it, for sure.

The hommage is well done, by the way.

My nitpickings:

• I am surprised you turned Idris into a dragon. Why not a big giant?
• Pagan knights will have trouble with the Idris stuff. A religion (pagan) roll for learning more about Idris is lacking
• It lacks the hospitality and honor loss for stealing the red blade (-5 and -3 respectively?)
• The "hospitality dilemna" is the core of the adventure, but is a bit too much easily resolved by smart players.
• The "Red Blade" is too powerful.

Thank you very much! It's beautifully done, especially for a free product!

I just checked the character sheets. The heraldry is gorgeous. Caletus came from Eburacum but have a loyalty (London) passion. Probably a mistake. The squires look better than their knights, which is a bit odd.

Otherwise, the characters are very diverse, maybe a bit too much. I understand you need to offer choices for players, but it looks a bit like a politically correct cast for a modern movie. I suppose that's why there is a loyalty "group" to glue the PK together, but it's not my cup of tea.

On 10/5/2019 at 5:10 AM, jeffjerwin said:

Here's a brief article (in French, if you can read it): https://www.persee.fr/doc/roma_0035-8029_1911_num_40_158_4633. Suffice to say it's a somewhat common romance motif associated with wizards.

Wizards and faees of course. As mentionned in the article, there is litteraly a turning castle in "la Mule sans frein", the "Mule without bridle", a gawain adventure of the XIIe century.

Quote

Girt were the fortress’ walls with moats profound,
And brimming torrents roll’d impetuous round;
Whilst, like a millstone, on its central base
Revolv’d with ceaseless course the whole enormous mass;
Swift as a top, when some impatient boy
With frequent lash speeds on the circling toy.
Bridge there was none, whereon he might assay
To vault with dexterous bound, and force his future way.

A translation I found online in english.

http://elfinspell.com/FabliauxMule.html

Thank both of you for your answers 🤩 The Arden Forest and The Perilous Forest are both interesting. To my knowledge however, Gwenbaus was just trapped in a "carole" forever dancing, but it sounds very intriguing.

Speeding up the adventure is probably a good idea, but cut off a lot of "courteous" opportunities to shine.

1 hour ago, jeffjerwin said:

Galvoie is deeply entwined in the Conte du Graal and Klingsor. (See Chretien and Wolfram von Eschenbach)

I know, I know,  but for now, I don't know how to use creatively all this stuff with Gawaine.

For a mysterious reason, this old published adventure found a special place in my heart. But I never played it. Did anyone have this chance ?

Where did you locate the kingdom? I think the kingdoms of Galvoie or Merionnyd are good candidates, but I'm open to suggestions.

Did the challenges become tedious in the long run?

I thnik Morien provides a good explanation. You can consider that the Ambrosius part of the story is just folklore after his death.

Yes, you can

You only need the Book of the Estate to fully understand the book of the Warlord, and Book of Armies is useless if you don't have Book of Battle.

Thank you! I was indeed wondering if there was a reference I missed.

They are mentionned here and there in the GPC. How are they exactly ?

17 hours ago, Klingonsylt said:

Are the family knights part of the household and something you pay upkeep for or are they free/independent?

They can be. Usually, it's just the number of knights in your family. They have their own life. They are not a free army on command.

Your campaign sounds like a lot of fun!

Anyway, for a complete list of round table knights, I almost forgot the  list established by Malory for the healing  (book XIX, chapter XI).

15 hours ago, Morien said:

which also explains nicely why she didn't become pregnant again afterwards

The coldness of her marriage can also explain a lot of things .

Anyway, the age of mythical characters doesn't really matter. Guenever is what 80? when she is caught in adultery, and she is more beautiful than ever.

59 minutes ago, YwainDigsLions said:

KAP 5.2, it says Coursers are battle-trained, but in BoE it says they are not? Which is true?

Coursers are normally not trained for battle (except exceptionnal mounts), but are faster and give a +5 bonus to riding in forests.

1 hour ago, YwainDigsLions said:

Also, do Poor Chargers have the same stats as regular Chargers except for the 5d6 damage?

I never used  stats for poor Chargers, except their 5d6 damage. The suggestion of morien seems good to me.

On 9/12/2019 at 8:57 PM, jeffjerwin said:

Gronosis is a PC in my game. The names have a superficial resemblance, but I think it's more likely Gronosis is derived from the Welsh name Gronwy,

Sounds very interesting. Did you portray Gronosis as an evil character, or as a character with knowledge about evil? How did you manage the relationship with Kay?

Thank you so much!

You're right about Carahes, the Ugly Brave, and Malduit. Not sure about Gornevain. The two names doesn't sound the same in french at all.

For Yder of the Dolorous Mount, he can not be the same character that Yder son of Nut. This Yder, son of Nut, is the first villain in the same Erec and Enide story who insulted the queen. He became a RKT after his defeat by the way. But tales and logic... Maybe he is the same legendary character after all, divided in two names.

For Gronosis, the mysterious son of Kay the Senechal, "well versed in evil", I found he could be Garanwyn,  the son of Kay mentionned in Culhwch and Olwen0

I was thinking of the famous list of Round Table knights in Erec and Enid (v. 1691), the oldest written source, some of them  unknown:

Before all the excellent knights, Gawain ought to benamed the first, and second Erec the son of Lac, and third Lancelot ofthe Lake. Gornemant of Gohort was fourth, and the fifth was the Handsome Coward. The sixth was the Ugly Brave, the seventh Meliant of Liz, the eighth Mauduit the Wise, and the ninth Dodinel the Wild. LetGandelu be named the tenth, for he was a goodly man. The others I shallmention without order, because the numbers bother me. Eslit was therewith Briien, and Yvain the son of Uriien. And Yvain of Loenel was there,as well as Yvain the Adulterer. Beside Yvain of Cavaliot was Garravain of Estrangot. After the Knight with the Horn was the Youth with the Golden Ring. And Tristan who never laughed sat beside Bliobleheris,and beside Brun of Piciez was his brother Gru the Sullen. The Armourers at next, who preferred war to peace. Next sat Karadués theShort-armed, a knight of good cheer; and Caveron of Robendic, and theson of King Quenedic and the Youth of Quintareus and Yder of theDolorous Mount. Gaherïet and Kay of Estraus, Amauguin and Gales theBald, Grain, Gornevain, and Carahés, and Tor the son of King Aras,Girflet the son of Do, and Taulas, who never wearied of arms: and a young man of great merit, Loholt the son of King Arthur, andSagremor the Impetuous, who should not be forgotten, nor Bedoiier the Master of the Horse, who was skilled at chess and trictrac, nor Bravaïn,nor King Lot, nor Galegantin of Wales, nor Gronosis, versed in evil, who was son of Kay the Seneschal, nor Labigodés the Courteous, nor Count Cadorcaniois, nor Letron of Prepelesant, whose manners were so  excellent, nor Breon the son of Canodan, nor the Count of Honolan whohad such a head of fine fair hair; he it was who received the King’s hornin an evil day; he never had any care for truth.

1. Gawain
2. Erec, son of Lac
3. Lancelot du Lac,
4. Gornemant of Gohort (mentor of Perceval)
5. The Handome Coward (mentionned in a few tales)
6. The Ugly Brave( ???)
7. Meliant of Liz (rival of Gawain in a few tales)
8. Mauduit  the Wise ( ???)
9. Dodinel the Wild, son of the king of Sugales
10. Gandelu, a « goodly man »( ???)
11. Eslit ( ???)
12. Brieen, probably Brian of the Isles, a bad guy in a few tales
13. Yvain, son of Urien, the Knight with the Lion
14. Yvain « l’Avoutre » the Adulterer, bastard son of Urien, minor hero
15. Yvain of Loenel (aka Lyonnesse), another Yvain, minor hero
16. Yvain of Cavaliot, another Yvain, minor hero
17. Garravain of Estrangot (aka Strangorre), ???
18. The Knight with the Horn, « Le chevalier au Cor », ???
19. The Youth with the Golden Ring, « Valet au Cercle d’Or », very mysterious character. Maybe the Hero of the Golden Cercle adventure in KAP ( !)
20. Tristan who never laughed, probably the nephew of King Mark
21. Bliobleheris, cousin of Lancelot
22. Brun of Piciez, maybe of the Bun family (mentionned in Book of Uther), but it sounds in french very close of Bruce sans Pitié, Bruce without pity of Malory
23. Gru the Sullen ???, brother of Brun
24. The Armourer, « li fevre d’armes »( ???), « who prefer war to peace »
25. Karadués the Short-armed, a knight of good cheer, aka Caradoc Briebras, hero of the Book of Caradoc
26. Caveron of Robendic ???, the son of King Quenedic ( ???)
27. the Youth of Quintareus
28. Yder of the Dolorous Mount, Yder du Mont Douloureux,  assimilated in KAP to Idres, father of king Mark
29. Gaheriet of Estraus, minor hero, nephew of Kay of Estraus
30. Kay of Estraus, minor hero
31. Amauguin, ???
32. Gales the Bald ( ???)
33. Grain, ???
34. Gornevain, ???
35. Carahes, ???
36. Tor, son of king Ares, aka Tor son of Ares the cowherder
37. Griflet, son of Do
38. Taulas, « who never wearied of arms », Taulas de Rougemont, rival and friend of Griflet
39. Loholt, son of king Arthur
40. Sagremor the Impetuous,
41. Bedoiier the Master of Horses, « Bedoyer » is the french spelling of Bedivere
42. Bravain ???
43. King Lot, still alive in Chretien de Troyes stories
44. Galegantin of Wales, minor hero
45. Gronosis, « well versed in evil », son of Kay, not mentionned elsewhere to my knowledge
46. Labigodés the Courteous, ???
47. Count Cadorcaniois, ???
48. Letron of Prepelesant, whose manners were so excellent ???
49. Breon the son of Canodan, ???
50. Count of Honolan who had such a head of fine fair hair ???

Very good idea!

12 hours ago, Ellie said:

The death in childbirth table has me thinking. For those who have had a player's wife die how did you and the table deal with this? Did they just move on and get a new one? Did you act out her funeral rights? 

Usually, the death in childbirth come at the end of the session, with a random roll. So it's a bit more difficult to roleplay.

I remember 3 occasions from my game:

1) A knight lost his wife and his two infant sons during the same (harsh) winter. It was a marriage of reason, but there was fondness between them. The knight was heartbroken, and decided to abandon his land and left for the north with his little daughter, because he was (intimate) friend with Queen Margause. He died a few years later fighting for king Lot.

One generation later, Helen, the daugther came back to reclame her inheritance usurped by his uncle (the brother of the first character). She married later with a childhood friend, (another PK).

2) This Helen was frail like her mother, and had a difficult pregnancy. She should have die, but the husband PK decided to sacrifice a glory point (a big deal!) to save her. We had a good roleplaying scene whith him at her side, begging her to live. There still together after 15 years of marriage, with 4 healthy children.

The first player is quite pleased with his little children.

3) A PK met a warrior woman (very rare in my campaign). They fall madly in love under magical circonstances. Shortly after their wedding, she gets pregnant. She died in childbirth with their son. He mourned her during years, feeling guilty, and didn't touch any other woman. Finally, he met her again in the Other Side, and decided to stay with her (OUT OF THE STORY).

13 minutes ago, Khanwulf said:

In which case the Table (big "T") was made in emulation of the smaller spiritual kingdom table, which was made probably back when the Grail arrived in Britain was became occulted in its protective "kingdom".  

 

I don't understand. The creation of the RT by Merlin makes sense to me. It's a good explanation, and frankly, my players never asked any question at all, so ... why bother with a convoluted explanation about the Grail kingdom?

1 hour ago, Morien said:

here is one Lamorat de Listenois in the Guiron 'prequel' stories

Lamorat is the french spelling of Lamorak. I suppose this Lamorat de Listenois is Lamorak of wales, son of king Pellinore. His mother is the sister/niece of the Fisher King, according to all the Perceval stories. That's why in the adventure of the castle of joy, Lamorak says that he is kin to the grail king.

Congratulations! Good Luck!

17 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I just think it's a little funny because it's about an Arthurian setting but it's got Dark Ages stamped on it. it's a weird mashup of modern and 19th CE mythologies.

Many mothers died in childbirth in the Arthurian mythos. It's the "orphan hero" cliché.

A pregnancy, even today, is a big deal. No women of my knowledge in game have any issues with that. They are women, not delicate flowers. They are strong. The RAW are broken, but with a quick add-on, they are not. They can create great drama and

And, if you look at the past, the reality was harsh. The rules have a semi-realistic feel. One of my players died of an ill-treated wound. It was no heroic, but a painful and miserable death. No one complained.

The setting is sexist by the way, because the society is patriarcal, even under Arthur's reign (benevolent but patriarcal). You have to play the game to realise how much it's awesome to discover a society with different values.

On 9/2/2019 at 7:09 PM, Atgxtg said:

I've been toying with the hoserule of letting the wife survive if she makes a CON roll, but treating it as if she survived a mortal injury (3 rolls on the aging table, maybe only one on a critical CON roll). I like it because:

1. It is easy to implement
2. Doesn't require chanigng any of the existing tables
3. Makes CON a useful stat for female characters
4. Automatically makes childbirth more risky as the wife gets older and her CON goes down.

Same, more or less. The normal Table with every result "mother dies" treated as a Con roll to survive. It's very easy to remember the Con of the mother (or improvise it on the spot). I call it the "good hips" rule.