Lloyd Dupont

No worries, most GM who chose BRP are probably attracted by its flexible, custom rule friendly approach... 🙂

Thought I had an heathen idea of late... using D20+skill.. 😮  It all started with opposed rolls, my pet dissatisfaction...

Me think Mythras has a solution that you might like. (I think, I might be confused, haven't played Mythras in like.. 2 years?)

It doesn't use characteristic roll (I think, maybe, not 100% sure), but anyway all skills start at the value of adding 2 characteristics. So that would be your crude skill roll right there! 😉 

The spirit of Christmas is all around! 😮 🙂

Gorgeous presentation, that's for sure! 🙂

58 minutes ago, lawrence.whitaker said:

No - it's not a foregone conclusion. The peasant should absolutely roll because a critical success will beat the magic user's roll of 95. The peasant may only have a slim chance of rolling a crit; but it's better than not rolling at all. Also, if the peasant is a player character, then he or she may well have Luck Points which can be used to help mitigate whatever has been rolled (perhaps forcing the magic user to re-roll; or swapping the dice on their own resistance roll).

Ha yes I forgot that (that crit roll will overcome the result), which in fact turns the frustration into expectation, I have to say.

That said I still want to give a go to my cooked up D20+skill ruleset next year... 🙂
I have a bunch of understanding players! 😅

In fact, tell the whole story, I was planning to use my ruleset for scifi adventure (in the Master of Orion universe) and a relatively close to the book Classic Fantasy (Mythras edition) for fantasy (except change the action economy slightly, my player are completely traumatized by my previous attempt to use RAW Mythras action point handling... 😮 )

1 minute ago, Mugen said:

It's simply because I think the various skill opposition rules that actually work in roll-under are very convoluted when compared to roll-over ones.

In roll-over, you don't need anything more complex than both roll and add their skill (or roll their skill in success-based systems), the highest roll wins.

No roll-under system I know is as simple and elegant as that:

-Simply comparing success level gives too many ties,
-Comparing success level and using skill value to break ties is a joke
-Roll-under blackjack is counter-intuitive, and needs special rules for high skills (less so with HQ-like resolution),
-Roll-under with margin of success requires too many computations.

I couldn't have say it more simply myself! 😄👍

In fact.. I certainly didn't... 😞😄

7 hours ago, Raleel said:

22 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

yea, I am planning to do a D20 version of my Master of Orion setting, just because the opposed roll mechanism in D100 is... frustrating me as well! 😮

No picking of fights here, but I’m curious as to the unhappiness and frustration. I have some suspicions, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth 

If found the D20 version of saves less cognitively involved, and also less frustrating (funnily enough since I am sure one can tweak the math for the probability to be equals, but I am talking feeling and reduced amount of calculations here, not probability)

Well for example, 
- 1) in Mythras if your 130% in magic users roll 94% forget about rolling willpower if you are peasant with less than 95% yourself no need to roll, you already lost. That is frustrating. Plus how could I tweak that a little with the POW of each characters?

- 2) BRP when your beginner adventurer with 13 POW must save against the wizard with 20 in POW, let's look up the table, mmm... looking...15% (also why look up a table when it's D20+POW>POW+10, too much work), but what if I want to tweak that value base on the spell skill as well, a little bit tricky

- 3) In D&D, you got a DC 22 to overcome when this top tier magic user cast a spell... it's a hard save but you always get a chance, and no need to lookup a table. Also adding a host of +1(2?3?) bonuses on both side add little to no complication

- 4) I know 1) and 4) are similar. In one, after the wizard made his roll, you got no chance of winning, in the other, you always get like... 5%! yeah! but it feels better to roll those 5% than just not roll, me think... Let's say it's a personal matter... I mean it's debatable, you have more chance to save against a Mythras wizard ultimately, because if he rolls low the save is easy, but I find it frustrating you just can't roll sometimes. And also hard to tweak the number based on the POW of each protagonist.

 

Anyway it's not a very hard transition. All I have to do is replaced percentage skill with +bonus and give a XP cost to gain +1. I can keep other thing similar! (though I have a few more simplification in mind)

yea, I am planning to do a D20 version of my Master of Orion setting, just because the opposed roll mechanism in D100 is... frustrating me as well! 😮

ha, good tip, I should remember to add a DPI option when exporting as images!!! 🙂 

8 minutes ago, Questbird said:

Yes, pretty much. I've just used roll20 since the pandemic, to play D&D5e and Coriolis: The Third Horizon. The GM constructs screens which have layers, a bit like a limited Photoshop. There's a map layer, a tokens layer and a GM overlay layer. The map layer has the graphic -- your .png file and you can add a grid if you want. It's kinda zoomable too by anyone. The token layer is where you put little moveable images, like how you would use miniatures. Players can control those if the GM gives them that ability. Then the GM layer is where you can do things like have GM-only visible things like notes about the map, or have blocks of greyed-out shaders which make parts of the map invisible to players.

Alright.. easy to use with any mapping app then, Bob is my uncle! 😄

19 minutes ago, Questbird said:

1 hour ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

"VTT"?!
What's that?

 

Virtual Table Top

Things like Roll20, Astral etc. Usually a set of tools which let the gamemaster display shared maps or images with tokens that the players can control, as well as zoom-like chat and videoconferencing. There's also usually dice rollers and interactive character sheets to make the bureaucracy of running a game a bit smoother.

Thanks for the info.

BTW since we are talking about Roll20.. I understand it's quite popular.
In my spare time I am working on a mapping application, what if I want to share it on Roll20? Do I just need to export to png/jpg?

"VTT"?!
What's that?

The Mythras version of classic fantasy adds a leveling and classes.
And while I consider it a bad thing at first sight.. after a year of thinking about, I think it's one of the best feature.

The classes itself are not very restrictive. It's just a list of skill that you need to augment to level up. Skill being available to all as usual, and unlike BRP no special per class bonus is given. Beyond Mythras concept of professional skills. BTW, since it's mostly a matter of skill, multiclassing is peanut.

The level is where the magic happens, it does 2 things, first it give small bonus abilities (include, the major ability to cast more powerful spells, I really really like that one), and it give +1 luck point (up to 5 since there are 5 levels).

BTW, forgot to answer the question....
once I started using location HP, I noticed my players were very fond it, mostly because they love to chop heads I suspect, so I had trouble reverting to general HP... So, here you go!

Halt, stop right there!

Some weapon (I am looking at Halberd, but I am pretty sure they are not the only one) and also firearms... damage is crazy is you use location hit points. Use Mythras combat, weapon and spell damage if you want hit location is my advice! 😉 

I would add my voice to choir, Classic Fantasy for Mythras (latest version) for the win! 🙂

7 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

2 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Haha you got me.. I have much D100 stuff (Revolution, Mythras, BRP, Runequest)! But.. nothing about Pendragon! 😮

Pendragon is a BRP variant game system created by Greg Stafford back i the 80s. I brought the game up because your wish to mix  the resistance table with opposed skill scores is pretty much what Pendragon does. 

Unlike most other BRP games it uses a D20 instead of D100, and handles most tasks with opposed rolls. For example, in combat both combatants would roll their skill and whoever won the opposed roll would roll damage against the loser. Oh, and if the loser's roll was under his skill then he's score a partial success and get the protection of his shield. There is a bit more to it, such as the critical rules and handling skills over 20, but the core game mechanic seems to be what you are looking for. In fact it is where I got the +5/-5 "reflexive" modifier from. 

Now if you wanted to use the difference in die rolls for specials and such, it would probably work out easier and faster than D100, too.

Mmm... interesting...

The idea to use % for progression, but D20 for gameplay crossed my mind a few times, it's the method that most intuitively match our instinctive math understanding for opposed rolls... You make me think about it again... (plus it's quite familiar to the D&D crowd)

One thing though I am a bit curious about. What about:

10 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

oth combatants would roll their skill and whoever won the opposed roll would roll damage against the loser

So each round someone damage an opponent?
Not that it is desirable or happens much in BRP but.. is it possible to have a drawn out duel which is much like a stalemate? 

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

BTW, it looks like you are veering fairly close to a Pendragon game mechanic. It might just simply what you are trying to do. I'm not sure how familiar you are with that particular branch of BRP.

Haha you got me.. I have much D100 stuff (Revolution, Mythras, BRP, Runequest)! But.. nothing about Pendragon! 😮

10 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

I may have  misunderstood, I thought you wanted to  remove the "+1 DEX makes a big difference" effect and reduce the need to use token. In your table above, I suspect the vast majority of your player would end up in the 25-36 band (assuming you are using DEX+INT). Would it be just simpler to give everyone N action and Y free action and use "fetas" and special effects  to vary it?  

This is exactly it... most players will be in the 0-36 band and get 1 action. I think you got me confused, care to elaborate?
(counting reaction proved no big deal, free reactions are reactions without cumulative -30% malus)

While the game still allow smoothly for faster monster or superior fighters.

That said... not using standard Mythras action requires me to rework Classic Fantasy spells a bit. Annoying.. 🤔

6 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Or if you make it reflexive then +5%/-5% would keep the feel and effect of the resistance table.

sounds good! 🙂

7 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I went down  a similar path with a variant that used the difference in rolls (mostly the tens die) to determine success levels rather than fractions of the skill. I gave everything a point cost  to buy with the difference. So ripostes, disarms, drive backs, trips, increased damage, etc. could all be chosen if the character had enough of an advantage to pay for it. Multiple specials could also be bought if the character had points left over. I even added a feint maneuver where a player could bank excess advantage points over to the next round so as to save up for a better special effect. The latter was risky though since the points would be lost if the character lost the next opposed roll.

Interesting... I though something less daring but similar. But drop it because it would have made high skill much more potent that I'd like it too... But you're making me consider it again...

7 hours ago, lawrence.whitaker said:

Perhaps give all characters 2 Action Points regardless. They can then use them for attack/defence other things as per the RAW, but you're simply limiting the amount of actions. Mythras has this as an optional rule in RAW already.

I am thinking.. and this is.. thinking in progress... to use a mix of BRP (any number of reaction with cumulative -30%  ) and sort of action as is:
0-12: 1 action, 0 free reaction
13-24: 1 action, 1 free reaction
25-36: 1 action, 2 free reaction
37-48: 2 action, 2 free reaction
....
Fighter got "feats" to go up the table. Riposte (just above, bonus reaction for better parry)  provide additional attack

5 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

37 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I think I was not very clear in my explanation..... But basically I was looking for a way to use a bit of both (skill and POW) that was smooth...

And I think Mugen might have nailed it. Basically use the usual skills, but change the difficulty with a quick lookup on POW difference... (I mean, hopefully quick, we shall see...)

That might give POW soo much of an edge as to make the skill roll insignificant. Or, a very high skill might make the POW difference insignificant. 

I use both easy/hard (skill x2, skill/2)(sparingly)  and bonus/malus (much more commonly). This is a case where bonus/malus is the only viable solution. Perhaps something like +/-20% per 8POW difference?

Yea... I made my own simplified table of effect (ahem or less simplified as it grow), it already has "riposte" on defender advantage (but it's a reaction, might incur cumulative -30% as per BRP rules), and was thinking to add disarm and..... grab weapon (might do a DEXvsDEX roll with malus depending on weapon, i.e. swords are harder to grab than spears)