Squaredeal Sten

On 11/19/2023 at 2:13 AM, Jose-san said:

 

Initiates are supposed to pay 10% of their income to their temple.... how do you manage this?

Do you take this into account? Does it affect PC in any way?

What other taxes exist in Orlanthi society, do clans, tribes and/or cities collect taxes in any way? If so how and how much?

 

Other taxes....

Tolls upon entering cities.  Amounts vary with your game.

Perhaps tolls on roads: a more polite variant of highway robbery.  This is usually  suppressed on Sartar royal roads when you have a strong Prince, but elsewhere and elsewhen??? 

Import duties at ports, amount depending on the port, IMG.

Market fees if you are selling.  That is canon, see Cults of Prax.  But amounts are not canon.

Ground rent if you have a house in a city.  Land is essentially leased, as I understand it. This is essentially equivalent to a property tax.

The 20% tithe on agriculture is the big " tax", and in a mostly agricultural society that raises almost 20% of Gross National Product, which is definitely not a post Bronze Age concept.

There is no income tax, because it is not practical in a mostly illiterate society. Again, not a Bronze Age idea. However for grins I made an Orlanthi Form 1040, and will attach it.  Mostly for players who quibble over tithes, though also to amuse myself.

Your cult tithes apply to non ag income, at least for initiates and above.  But this is not a "tax".  It is not enforced by a king who might be deceived, only by your gods who are aware of everything their initiates do (see Divination) (see Spirits of Retribution).

As I understand it (YGMV),  kings and Lunar governors may collect a tax as a percentage of property.    Probably with your clan as the collector, subject to royal displeasure.  However people and clans  may attempt to hide property from tax collectors.  But that is not a normal thing in time of peace for non subject peoples.  It is a historical background thing, not in the RQiG rulebook.  You can use it to oppress your players, as used in [spoiler] Six Seasons.   

Orlanthi form 1040 draft 1.pdf

On 11/16/2023 at 12:51 PM, Jason Farrell said:

If you have a non-zero value for the Chaos Rune, you detect as chaotic.  Unless you're Illuminated.

slight correction: You MAY detect as Chaotic.

Because the Storm Bull skill of sensing Chaos is subject to failure, even to fumble.

On 10/20/2023 at 1:57 PM, soltakss said:

Until the Volcano gets hungry.

Probably not.  I went to what appears to be tbe original Caladralnd write up.  (  )  It characterizes the position as more like a president. The Guide seems to be where that became "king".   Evidently established because Belintar wanted someone in that Sixth to  deal with.  

I can't see Belintar settling for someone who would periodically be sacrificed. 

On 11/19/2023 at 11:59 AM, jajagappa said:

Looking for more Nochet? Well, now there's an Adventurer's Guide, too! 124 pages. $7.99

Nochet: Adventurer's Guide

 

 

Just got it, so congratulations on publishing it in PDF.  I look forward to seeing this, too, in hard copy. 

Congratulations for getting the Nochet Adventures Guide https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/460904/Nochet-Adventurers-Guide-RuneQues supplement out in PDF.  I look forward to seeing it, too, in hard copy.  It is the kind of thing that really needs to be in hard copy.  I am tempted to print out my PDF, but all those pages will suck my printer dry. 

36 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Jar-eel the Razoress conspires against the rightful Red Emperor, and abandons her duties for love at a critical moment.

I agree, of course, that these are “exemplary Lunar” behaviours, I was just amused enough to mention it.

From the little I know, Lunar loyalty at the highest level is to the Red Goddess.  The Red Emperor in question seems to have been a mistake who endangered the Goddess's rule and expansion.  In clear minded Illuminated fashion, she (Jar-Eel as the Goddess's avatar anyway) decided he had to go.

Delecti   is a survivor.  .  As a vampire he just wants to keep on keeping on.  I like Andrew L Montgomery's suggestion that he may switch sides or be neutral in the Hero Wars.  It is one of these loose ends that you may use in your campaign.

If you add the weight of armor. a saddle,multiple weapons. some food, maybe a little loot.... you get an even harder problem matching rider and mount SIZ.  

Yet it seems to me that a quest for realism should account for those things too.  After all there is a reason jockeys are small people.  There is a reason most RW cavalry was not heavily armored in ancient times.  There is a reason larger horse breeds and knights in full plate armor occurred together.

As others have pointed out in this and other threads,

*RQ's encumbrance rule is written for two legged Adventurers and just doesn't work for four legged mounts or pack animals.

* SIZ characteristic is a quick game mechanic, and combines weight and height. Thus a giraffe and a rhinoceros might have similar SIZ stats.  But in the Real World the rhino is stronger.  SIZ becomes less useful if you use it beyond its original applications in the rules.

*SIZ is also not linear but apparently logarithmic.  Demonstrated by the table of examples in the rules.  But I suspect most players can't define "logarithm"  and many have never used logs.  Few will. tolerate a rule that requires threm, it is not fun gaming stuff.

So I suggest a mount encumbrance table, not a formula.  Write it to fit RW examples.  Including elephants at the high end.  But let's admit we have no RW experience with the carrying capacities of demibirds. rhinoceros, sable antelopes, dinosaurs. or giant insects.

There is no canon comment that I can find on pre-Gods-War temple counts for any of the gods.  I suppose YGMV.  but...

Lightbringers page 127 says when Umath "provided the world" with his children (pre Gods War)  Storm Bull contained "mindless v9olence, raw strength, ..."

That is often not an appealing package, so it should be understandable that folks with more Man rune that Beast rune woud not emphasize his worship. 

In the Golden Age, a less forbidding emphasis when he married (or at least bred with)  Eiritha in Genert's Garden, but on the male side the appeal is with "his sons" according to what is written..

The fight against Chaos was Storm Bull's  big opportunity to be loved. 

To sum it up, before the Chaos fighting there is / was  little reason to expect Storm Bull to be a popular object of worship.  And even afterward, his chaos fighting specialty is very nice to have around, but too much of the mindless violence is not good for day to day tribal life, which requires cooperation. It is far better for most men to worship Waha, 

On 10/31/2023 at 5:06 PM, Joerg said:

With the basic questions about hospitality out of the way, here's a first try at describing an obnoxious guest:

Hordi Seven Boasts and his man-servant Odd

Hordi is an elderly clan thane from the impoverished <Varmandi>/<Hillhaven>/<whatever> clan. His five hides of sheep number maybe sixty instead of the required 250, which his equally impoverished tenants make up for by providing extra hay for the tribal herds or the steeds of guests at the clan-associated caravanserai (e.g. Apple Lane) over the worst parts of winter.

Regardless of the occasion, Hordi is sure to give seven toasts to the host, praising a different Orlanthi virtue while praising himself with one of his seven stock boasts.

Even in latter stages of inebriation, Hordi has yet to be caught to utter the same boast twice at a single occasion.

Hordi owns an often stitched tunic of linen with silken fields, with many a rend artistically mended stitching a glyph or a rune across the rend. Hordi’s sworn manservant Odd, an ugly stickpicker from his clan who would have happily receive the lowest available level of hospitality for some cold gruel and a dry place to sleep, has become quite the textile artist and will nowadays receive quite a bit of the high status fare from Hordi’s drinking cup and food bowl. Hordi’s tipsy behavior is mostly acting these days, while Odd will often be seen in a pleasant stupor after enjoying a rich meal and good drink.

Odd will offer his textile repair services to other professional guests and genuine travelers for a small gift. Given a few more years, Odd might be able to afford enough livestock to upgrade his status to a tenant herder, or become a village tailor and embroiderer cottar with his own hut, and maybe even receive a wife to warm him in his old years around the corner.

Hordi’s boasts:

• In his youth, he rode with Kallyr who is known as the Starbrow. (The truth of this claim is that Hordi served as a caravan guard iin the saddle of a spare mule for a merchant who accompanied a teenage Kallyr to receive some of the royal house of Sartar scion in Boldhome).
• He was eye-witness of the demise of the Crimson Bat at the Chaos Ground outside of Runegate. (The truth of this claim is that the Varmandi warriors led by him arrived too late fro the defenve of Runegate, and hid on the flank of Old Top, way too close to the site where the Crimson Bat crashed down.)
• He served under Prince Salinarg. (He was part of the Varmandi complement to aid Salinarg in his road-building at …)
• He faced Chaos at Orgwaha Blue Llama’s memorable Storm Bull holy day service in Boldhome. (He became the target of a Face Chaos spell cast by a companion of Orgwaha, only to be incapacitated by receiving a salvo of Demoralize, Befuddle and Mindblast, at least distracting these spells from those who actively fought in the ensuing hubbub. Hordi has a scar to prove this – unfortunately the piece of gorp gaught him on his buttocks.)
• He was a guest at Prince Temertain’s inthronisation. (None of the other <Varmandi> thanes would stomach sitting at the same feast as Fazzur and his officers below Larnste’s Table. Hordi was dead drunk before the rites had finished.)
• He fought a sakkar sabre-tooth cat on his own. (The Sakkar’s attack pushed him down a cliff, with his fall cushioned by a canopy of hazia bushes he and an enterprising gardener had managed to plant, destroying that one hope to get rich.)
• He was one of the Sartarites at the defence of the Hill of Orlanth Victorious. (Hordi was one of the people tearing down the dam across the rivulet that would split the advancing hoplites. His section of the dam only broke down when the neighboring sections carried it down in the flow.)

 

I wonder whether something like this, extended with a few adventure hooks or maybe a nemesis of Hordi's, might be interesting as a Jonstown offering. Or possibly a list of sample hosts with their quirks?

That might indeed be interesting.  I think such a playable piece might be built around a journey during which the traveler party encounters all the levels of hospitality from the cup of water and opportunity to sleep in a grove near the village or stead, to being hosted in a relative's  house, the chief's hall, several houses, an inn, and the tribal manor at Boldhome or another city.  With the reasons why each situation is appropriate. 

What to do with a large group's animals will be an occasion for inventiveness.  I imagine that a caravan or large pilgrim group will have many more animals than can be accommodated in the back of someone's longhouse.  In that case if there is no inn,  the village will have to do... what?

It seems to me that criteria for appropriate hosting would have several dimensions: The guest(s) reputation, social rank, number of guests and their animals, who the host is and their resources, the physical location (ranging from a shepherd' s camp to an  isolated stead, a village, an inn, city gate,  the tribal manor, chief's hall).  

What do you think of this?  It is my understanding that " noble" means either that the person:

1) Has a job / place in the community that involves them not doing manual labor (which would be governing, priesthood, or a salaried military position) and also having a high income awarded by the community (typically the five hides of land which RQiG makes a standard, but a temple may just support a Rune Lord or a high priest), or 

2) Being a family member and resident of a noble' s household.  

Our references for this are the character generation mechanics and the year end income mechanics in RQiG.  So it is game mechanics as well as Gloranthan background.  And as Jeff has recently written that it is primarily a game mechanic.

It seems to me to be  useful to distinguish noble status from noble standard of living.  A successful merchant or leading crafter may achieve a noble standard of living but not be a noble.  At the same time his social status may be equivalent to a noble.  

There are going to be high nobles and low nobles.  The clan chieftain is lower than the Prince of Sartar, for instance.

There are going to be edge cases and ambiguities. 

* What are you if you are a thane with four hides of land instead of five? 

* What are you if you are the Issaries market priest at clan level?  IMHO the answer might be different from being THE Issaries market priest in Nochet.

* What are you if you are a Chalana Arroy priest / priestess walking a circuit of many villages, who enjoys a noble SOL partly because you are every chieftain's guest, but also because Rune magic cures and resurrections oblige the patient to give as generously as he can afford?

It also seems to me that when the clan chief's son or daughter goes adventuring or caravan guarding, they give up that noble status and Standard Of Living until they return home.  Though they may be treated with noble social status by those who know them, or clan chiefs  who know their father.  I would even change their character sheet and their SOL in the year end calculations, while they are away from home.

I believe g33k is right.  Make it easy for people!  Don't require knowing or guessing some specific abbreviation iike "LFG" for search, and don't insist on only favoring one specific  channel like Roll20 or Discord..  In this case redundancy is good.

As for the most recent "other' way to do this, I have posted my observations here

And please make it easy to find from / on the Chaosium web site.  That is where the most new players will start looking.  Don't make specific search skills a barrier, don't make persistence a barrier. 

58 minutes ago, Hellhound Havoc said:

Wouldn't this make a Carl lineage into a Cottar lineage in like 3 generations?......

if no one distinguihes himself or at least has enough political pull to occupy a landed office, then a descent to carl status but not to cottar. 

If Daddy can generate enough surplus during his lifetime to give each son a plow and oxen, then the Earth temple will find the son some land.  The temple's interest is in getting all the land plowed and sown.  Most of the non-Adventurer carl population (therefore most of the clan's households) are in this situation, hereditary farmers. 

The temple and the Ring have no interest in pushing the carl families down to cottar status, and clan politics will work against doing that.   The high taxes of the Lunar occupation might push things that way, but post-Dragonrise, no.

9 hours ago, g33k said:

I registered when Chaosium posted the link.
I tagged a bunch of games I play (or would like to at least try).

Their "match" system didn't seem very relevant... I got a "71%" match with someone
 * in South Africa (I'm in California)
 * who has zero games in common with my picks
 * who evidently only speaks German (I'm only fluent in English, and have zero German)

WTF?
 

Possibly because your available times and days matched, and/or because their questions about being late, etc. matched.  Their algorithm gives closest matches, not perfect matches.

I do see the same thing in my results.  Nevertheless I suspect that the reason I don't get matches with more people from my part of Texas who play RuneQuest, is that few RQ players have signed up.  That the other folks are the closest matches, mostly tells me few of us RQ players are in their system yet.  And too many people checked off 'will play anything", which means you have to ignore them manually, or just invite them to your game and see if they get back to you.

If you modify the matching criteria (which you can do, see the pulldown menu in upper right part of their screen)  you are less likely to see the folks from South Africa.  But you will still see them if they say they will play at your days and times, because RPGMatch seems (so far) to be pretty oriented to internet play.  Even though one of the choices is tabletop / in-person.

If it was originally a Voralan tool then remember that they would not need it to give them contact with the group mind.  They already had it all their lives.  So why waste the POW to enchant it?

Fungus infections sound about right, and amusing too in a practical jokey way.

55 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

.....

What would Hero Quested Troll tears powers be?

If I recall some of the material correctly, you might not bring back physical things from the quest; instead the point is what you experience. learn, and internalize. which often leads to magic.  So what do you learn from seeing a troll goddess or demigodess crying. up close and personal? From touching the tears?

Maybe you learn compassion, maybe an increase in your Harmony rune, maybe a unique magic that resembles some of the Issaries or Chalana Arroy rune spells.  

But if you do bring back tears it is the essence of sadness or of pity.  Or maybe % in troll lore or insight(Uz).

The whole "only a game" paradigm ignores realities of RW American and British football.  Here in Texas. USA,  for many people football is not to be laughed at or made fun of.  As a practical matter it is on a par with religion, especially as some people's RW  application of religion(s) can get peculiar, while others wish they would come off it.

I did actual opinion research in entertainment  that unintentionally  touched on the football subject, about 28 years ago. And made significant discoveries that led to changes in the product.  And we have all heard of soccer / football  hooligans.  Because trolls are the Elder Race closest to humans, it should be no surprise that the original authors made them reflect those rabid fan  attitudes.  

I feel OK necroinhg the thead.

Last month Chaosium announced a relationship with RPG Match.  It does have a link from the blog section of the Chaosium web site.

Now the bad news: That sole link is getting gradually buried. and the number of RuneQuest players who have registered with RPG Match appears to be low.

It could stand some more love from Chaosium.

Some of the discussion above implies a search for the ultimate grimoire which would contain all possible sorcery spells.

But logic indicates that there is no such thing;

The Blue Book would contain the principles from which sorcery is derived.  But principles are not a magazine of spells ready to cast. They are a starting point.  

Since we know that sorcerors create new spells after long study, it seems likely that a near infinite number of spells are possible.  Those could only be contained in a near infinite size book, not one you could walk out of a library with.  

On another facet of the discussion: Wouldn't some of the books in a large Gloranthan library be clay tablets?  Which are bulkier than papyrus or vellum.  

Optimator son 0f Spaten, i like it.    Ideally an initiate of Minlister, and dual initiate of some other god with more punch.

I really like Spaten beer, and it has never tasted like blood.  Just in case anyone wonders.

According to the Earth cults book Gloranthans do use earthblood tar for caulking and waterproofing.  Also for mortar.

So-   You can use it for shops. boats, baskets. and for building projects.

Thinking about that Tarpit tar as Earthblood:  It is a useful commodity.

Would it be traded, with a secondary benefit to the Uz in that removing it may gradually deplete the Tarpit and reopen the way to the Underworld?

Or would trade be refused. as the tar is held to be remains of the Only Old One, a demigod,  and therefore sacred?

1 hour ago, Cassius said:

Rougly translated from the Museum website :

 

So the equivalent of a buckle, only for a sash?  It is conceivable.  But my own  experience of tying a sash is that it does not need a buckle.  You would only need such a thing if you were incompetent at tying the sash.

Right hip  ... always the right hip?  Perhaps part of a closure system for an upper garment?  Using ties instead of a hook?  

One thing that is vague::  The Guide says the Caladraland High Kings are elected by the clan chiefs for a single term.  Does anyone have an opinion about how long that term is?

Also any opinion as to whether there is a permanent royal establishment in Lowvale at Low Temple?  A palace, an archive. royal officials?   Do the clans pay taxes to the High King?  If not then why would most of the chiefs who are not from there, want the job?

It's my observation that  in the RW, term limits empower the bureaucracy.